UKC

Yes i know its another which ice axe thread. Hoping to start winter climbing again and need some new axes and would appreciate your thoughts. Its a long time since i've done any winter stuff (so please bear with me) but the type of routes i had i mind for example are the easier gullies on Great End. However i may want to do some of the easier icefalls/frozen gills as well.

I can get a good deal on black diamond gear so i am looking at the Venom and Viper with the thought that i'm sure the Venom will be ok for the gullies but will it be OK for a bit of water ice (i know the hammer comes with a tech pick), however i feel the Viper may be a bit overkill/unsuitable for the easier gullies. Thoughts please on the above.

In reply to Andy Hudson:

No idea of the routes you mention...

But my experience has been, that if you can cope with a long shafted axe (longer than 50cm technical tool)... well simple hiking poles or in extreme cases a self arrest pole (Grivel Kondor or BD Whippet) is enough.

Hence, I don't own a mountaineering/glacier axe... only ice tools (Vipers) and a Whippet (plus adjsutable poles).

Do bear in mind, that I don't climb in Scotland but in the Alps, US or Scandinavia... And most of the time it's with skis (hence Whippet).

In reply to Andy Hudson:
I've not used the Venoms, but I love my Vipers for water ice. You can do easy routes with them although they aren't as good for this as something less technical, taking the rest & the strike off so you can plunge better helps. The small adze is a bit rubbish for digging with too.
Isi

In reply to isi_o:
Bump

In reply to Andy Hudson: Climbed with Vipers last season and used them for the first time on Launchy Gill a grade 3 ice route in the lakes and found them great and then went on to climb
on The Ben for a week seconding grade 5s leashless they performed well on all types of climb
from steep ice to snow gully.I think unless your thinking of climbing hard mixed routes vipers
will be good axes to get,

In reply to Andy Hudson:

I've never used the Venoms, but I used the Vipers to guide with last season and they were the envy of most of my clients - a really intuitive swing and they do stick very well. They are equally at home on very easy terrain as the hardest ice and very technical mixed, so I wouldn't worry about outgrowing them. The only problem, as with all BD axes, is the infuriating picks that snap just when you don't want them to. It may be different with the T-rated picks, but I wouldn't be certain.

For what its worth, I'm switching to using predominantly Nomics this season, but they really are expensive!

In reply to alan1234:
I've been climbing with Black Diamond tools and t-rated picks for almost 10 years now. Never broken or even bent a pick. The laser picks (b-rated) are prone to breakage - just switch to a titan or fusion pick and you've got nothing to worry about. I've never understood why people have a whinge about the b-rated picks and keep buying them.
Vipers are great tools. Don't bother with the venom.

In reply to Graham:

Its because the T-rated ones are not very useful on hard continental ice. But anyway its agreed, the Vipers are super tools.

In reply to alan1234:

That's the first I've heard of snapped BD picks too.
I've been using BD tools for a while now. I would only use my B picks for ice.