UKC

On a wee walks around the Llyn, I noticed the path fairies have been uber busy building what can only be described as a patio!

I understand and support the need for the path building but does Anyone else this this is a bit excessive?

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-TgXqMVllexo/T4yREyNOdtI/AAAAAAAAAyU/9_LH...

In reply to higherclimbingwales:

Its the start of this, real shame.

http://www.snowdonia-active.com/news.asp?newsid=748

Its going to go right round the lake.

In reply to Joss: astonishing and extremely disappointing

In reply to higherclimbingwales:

It looks wide enough for a truck!

In reply to higherclimbingwales: I will be sad to see the old buildings go and be replaced by a tesco direct style building aimed at the car based high revenue visitor.

In reply to Joss: who are snowdonia-active and who have they given head to to get approval for such a monstrosity?

In reply to higherclimbingwales: I guess you can get a sense of perspective on the footpath if you look at the bags in the background, they are meter square bags by the look of it.

In reply to higherclimbingwales: the use of the idwal footpaths are just going to get more and more yearly. So the issue of erosion is just going to get bigger. If this wasnt there it would be a mess, unfortunately is the only option for this. But give it a year and it will soon be blended in. As for the whole project to redo the ogwen buildings i think its a great plan as they will be far more fitting than the pebble dashed ones that are there now. We as locals heavily rely on tourism and any steps to keep this going is a positive one. Also any new possibilities of employment in the area is a boost, this being building the new facilities and maintaining the mountain paths surrounding. Keeps wallers like me happy!

cheers

In reply to IOAN D:


^^^this^^^. the existing paths can already be seen from afar, and whilst i understand the desire to keep such places "as natural as possible", the cwm is a mindblowing place which impresses successive generations of geography students, walkers, bimblers and punters like me. A bit of accessibility will allow a larger number of people in to enjoy it with a lower erosional impact due to the new paths (i hope). I'd like to think one of the reasons paths like this are made is that I could finally show the likes of my mobility-challenged 70 year old mum the beauty of such places. we as climbers aren't the only users of the mountains after all. i await my inevitable UKC slating with due deference.

In reply to IOAN D: In the 25 years I have been visiting Ogwen the numbers I have seen , even on the busiest days don't merit this path. Its a shame as the money could be better used elsewhere in the park.

In reply to muppetfilter:

I worked on this so called `patio`, do you remember how it used to be before, or were you totally oblivious to not see the erosion in this particular area where most people stopped ?

I took arial photos before the new patio area was built and hopefully like Ioan said it will blend in given time !

Cwm Idwal is very special to me and if I thought that anything I did would make the Cwm unsightly or take away it`s natural beauty then you are so wrong !

The work we do is vitally important for the future of the Cwm, stopping erosion and to ensure that the work we do is in-keeping with the natural suroundings.

Before any work in Cwm Idwal is done it has to be approved by the National Park, CCW and the National Trust.

The volume of visitors to the Cwm increases every year and it would be nice if the general public would appreciate the hard work that has been done in constructing the footpath around the lake, we try to use minimal construction with natural local materials !

Could you suggest a better alternative or would you rather see erosion around the Cwm ?

Quite baffled really with this posting !!!

mills.

In reply to higherclimbingwales:

It is an inevitable result of easy accessibility to the hills. We should remember that Cwm Idwal is pretty much a roadside walk - despite having a mountain atmosphere and despite climbers insisting on calling Idwal Slabs a mountain crag - it is a an easy level walk from a car park.

I'm glad that someone is looking to sustainability of the most affected areas. Results in the Lakes have shown how well these paths blend in over time and are certainly a better option than huge scars everywhere (caveat - but a bugger when iced up !!).

In reply to mr mills: Seconded. As Dom says the place is already rammed full of students, climbers, tourists, walkers, artists, etc. A new path is unlikely to attract many more people, but it will help cope with the huge number who already visit.

The path around the back of the lake is certainly needed, as the potential for erosion of the grass there is very high. It could easily become a huge field of mud!

In reply to mr mills: Path widening is the issue with the area highlighted in the photo, would it not have been better to introduce measures to discourage widening while providing a hard wearing narrower path. Remedial works to mitigate the damage caused by hundreds of thousands of feet is one thing, to lay a stone paving is another rathher a sledgehammer and walnut response to a problem.
To answer the question about wether I would like to see further erosion, of course not but maybe funds could be diverted to spread the disproportionate loading that Ogwen recieves and will increase if a new visitors center is built.
Are the bags Helecopter dropped ?

In reply to muppetfilter: I happened to be up there just last week. I saw no evidence that the path in general was being widened. The photo in the OP is just one very small part where walkers reach the lake and inevitably stand around to admire the surroundings. It does not represent the remainder of the path up to the lake or around the lake.

In reply to GrahamD:


Well, yes. My older son happily walked up there when he was 4. And did a couple of pitches up Ordinary Route whilst he was at it. It's not exactly a remote high mountain experience....

In reply to mr mills:

I fully understand the need for the paths around there given it's convenient location. it is rather shocking to see such a wide swathe of land taken up by this construction and maybe I didn't notice the erosion at the spot in question or maybe I did but didn't think it was as bad so as to warrant such intervention. Could you happen include a link to the aerial images you took so show a bit of perspective?

I walked around the lake yesterday and I was impressed by the path and appreciate the hard work by the volunteers etc but I can't stop thinking that the gathering spot is a little bit excessive and perhaps more education to groups would have a less impacting effect at reducing erosion, maybe even a sign or two highlighing the problem - most people do respond well to instructions where present, especially where the environment is concerned.

My initial post wasn't to somehow belittle those who work to improve the experience for others but to highlight the problem of (as stated above) using the proverbial sledgehammer to crack a nut.

In reply to Mike Peacock:

Seconded again and I'm particularly happy about the improved access. My concerns are more about the vistor centre...tricky things to get right and often with patronisingly simplistic information.

In reply to higherclimbingwales: I'm at a loss to know why the hell we, or anybody, needs "visitor centres". What precisely is their function other than as a means for certain organisations to justify their own existence.

Certainly in places like the Pyrenees, where they do exist, they tend to be far less obtrusive and are sometimes incorporated into the local Bureau des guides situated in village centres.Consequently their visual impact is far less noticeable.

In reply to higherclimbingwales:
I much prefer the more modern style of a gritted surface than those horrible stone cobbles like the new ben nevis north face track. OK on the really steep sections some stairs may come in handy but other than that perfect.

In reply to IOAN D: I agree.. I'd actuall;y be infavour of more lower level routes in Snowdonia..

In Portugal around Faro each village had their own loops,easily signposted 5-10 miles, with a map. Made loads of quick tours possible and spread out tourism

In Snowdonia we have too efw honeypot areas and not enough lower level walks and especially long distance lower level footpaths linking up YHA's and hostels, bunkhouses etc.. like the WHW..

Snowdonia should embrace sustainable eco-tourism, at the moment it hasn't been touched to anywhere near its full potential. Road bikes for hire, cafes easily bike accessible.. the Mallorca model..

I'd rather have that sort of mass tourism than 'lochs and glens' or whatever its called now..

But at the moment I think many who end up on Llanberis path do so because a lack of alternatives.. for example at Nantmor NT car park have a map of walks possible and leaflets describing them..

Saying that things in Snowdonia move so slowly I think we'll all be long dead before things change.. look at the 'wardens path'.. I was looked in the eye and told that no path exists by one warden.. yet we all know its been put in the pass..

The top half of the PYP to PYG path also needs further work. At the moment the road is still the option.. we ran up it the other day and it wasn't great running.. fine lower down but a mess passed that corner..

In reply to IainRUK:

Agreed - the new path is a bit bizarre isn't it? It goes up then drops height, then has great big muddy patches. Odd.

In reply to mypyrex:

The function of a visitor centre is to provide a place to go for a pee before starting your walk. 'Visitor Centre' is a euphemism for a toilet with a couple of posters of birds to give you something to look at if there is a queue.

In reply to tom_in_edinburgh:

In that case, what's wrong with going behind a boulder?

In reply to higherclimbingwales:

i think its a good move hope the center has an events room that schools and clubs can use for day trips etc

i think it will be proven a good move in the longterm

In reply to mypyrex:

Fair point, but in my experience of walking with my wife and two daughters guys have less problem with the boulder option than women, who generally prefer the 'visitor centre'.

In reply to tom_in_edinburgh:

She-wee ;0)

In reply to muppetfilter:


yes, least there was a helicopter up there last week in march dropping off stone.

In reply to mypyrex:

my thoughts too ,why do we need a visitor centre in ogwen? if you really have to have something wouldnt it be better suited putting one in capel curig alongside the existing shops rather than blotting the landscape.

In reply to colina:


"we" don't - toilet and pasty shop work fine.

Mom in Law and her ilk would probably like one though.

In reply to colina:

There's already what is essentially a small visitor centre there - a large room full of various display boards. There's quite a collection of buildings what with the YH, the outward bound centre, and the NP buildings. I'm not sure adding/changing them will exactly 'blot' the landscape.