UKC

Hi all

Looking for any advice from parents or trainers who have been through this challenge before. The first couple of climbs at an indoor centre, my 7yr old son scampered all the way up the wall - awesome, I thought. So I got him enrolled on a NICAS level 1 course and true as nuts, he's suddenly experiencing fear of heights for no apparent reason - the only thing that's happened on the wall has been on one occassion when he grazed his arm when he slipped on his descent but otherwise no frights.

I have tried everything I can think of to get him over his fear, as it's going to stop him progressing with his course, but I cannot get him more than 7ft up the wall before he refuses to go any higher. And that's on the most basic wall in the centre that kids half his size scamper up. It's driving me nuts! Any parent or trainer know a way to work through this? I have tried the following, none of which have worked:
* Bribe with sweets
* Take photos of him higher up that he can show in class as he's the only one who does climbing
* Gentle encouragement
* Firm encouragement
* Near military barking to try again - he's done it before dammit
* Not letting him descend until he's tried 2 more moves up

Help please! I know the latter points won't be helping at all but I am fed up.....

Many thanks
GlenC

In reply to glenc: don't project what you want onto your child. Just let them come to climbing if and when they feel ready, don't push it onto them,you could put them off forever.


If you are determined to get your child climbing,have a look at a book called climbing games by Paul Smith - full of good ideas.

In reply to glenc: Stop forcing him to do what you want him to do, and at your pace, and let him do what he wants to do, it his pace - which may include him simply NOT wanting to do it at all.

And at the end of the day, does it matter - he's only 7 for god's sake!

I think this is more about your desires than his.

In reply to glenc: No help required. He'll do it when he is ready and willng. Good luck.

In reply to glenc:


He's a boulderer! Happy days.

In reply to glenc: take him out and try something completely different! at that age attention spam is very short and trying lots of things helps him eventually make HIS mind up as to what he wants to pursue. With regards to the course, forget the money and the course.....if you keep making him do it it WILL have a long lasting effect and he might just want to take up knitting instead!! An ex boyfriend remembers hearing his dad say he was rubbish at football when he was about 4 or 5 yrs old and he still remembers it to this day and has effected his relationship with his dad. By doing lots of different activities you will still get that ever so important bonding time.

In reply to glenc:

Try climbing on the route/problem next to him so that you're by his side to reassurance him when he gets scared.

Hi folks

Thank you for the mixture of replies. Let me clarify something here : on re-reading my initial posting it does seem like it's forcing and my desires. Let me clear this up - he LOVES going climbing. He WANTS to get up on the more challenging climbs - this is what he says to me, not what I am wanting from him. I always let him choose which climb he wants to do, whether it's on the beginner wall or a 5. He has the desire for it, not me pushing him to do any of it, but he's stuck and as his father I am trying to find a way to help him get past that point.

Thank you to those who provided good ideas on how to give him back his confidence - we will see which he is willing to give a go. Appreciate your constructive assistance.

In reply to Monk:

he does enjoy bouldering but unfortunately the section at our centre is very difficult for shortiesd like him....but he just goes with whatever hold he can get to.

In reply to ericinbristol:


You don't know that; children (and adults too for that matter) can be really enthusiastic about climbing, but find the fear very hard to deal with.

In my experience the most important thing to do is make sure that the child is in complete control; if they say they want to come down, you let them down instantly and without question. This will help with the anxiety.

Talk to them about how safe they are and why they are frightened when they are down, but don't try to make them do anything they aren't happy with. This may mean that they spend a lot of time stationary near the base of the wall, but it is necessary. Extra motivation (sweets, praise, photos etc) is definitely a good approach.

As others have said though, make sure that your son really does want to climb.

In reply to glenc:
This might not be what you want to hear but perhaps best to let him know he doesn't have to climb unless and until he wants to.

We tried our eldest scrambling from 4 onwards and he's always loved it but at 7 he cried on Brown Slabs so we didn't go there again until he asked to. Similarly the youngest showed early on he was frightened of heights so never pushed him to do it at all. On Sunday he asked to climb at Shepherds and failed twice on Brown Slabs and I let him down immediately as soon as he said he couldn't do it, after checking he was happy to be lowered. The third time he ran up it and was very proud at the top.

In reply to glenc: Sometimes kids do need encouragement to know whats good for them though! But forcing them will just make them dig their heals in even more.

My daughter started getting nervous at the climbing wall so I stopped taking her there and went outdoors again where she had started.

I think climbing walls are a poor place for young kids to learn. Even small holds are big for their little hands and the gaps between them and steepness make even easy routes all about power rather than technique - and power is something they just don't have. That creates tension in them and adds to the fear.

Outdoors my daughter climbs brilliantly, using tiny holds, slopers and sidepulls I wouldn't even notice! She has no fear and just loves it.

Find somewhere easy angled with a safe descent where you can set up a top rope, and most importantly belay from above. That way he can see a friendly face above to climb to and won't need to be lowered which creates a lot of the fear. If even that doesn't wok, get someone you trust to belay and climb with him on a bight of rope just above you.

good luck.

In reply to RCC:

Thank you very much RCC. Good advice.

In reply to wercat:

Thanks Wercat. Makes sense

In reply to glenc: is it anything to do with who is belaying him? he may have more confidence in a certain person so maybe just ask him who he wants to belay him. Someone suggested climbing along side him.....good idea or someone else. Also, have you tried just not talking while he is up there? the silence may give him chance to work out is fears himself. Just ideas I have used in the past. i suppose no matter how far up he gets praise and a goal for next time should help. good luck. it will come.

In reply to heathermeek:

Thanks heathermeek. I belay him when he's not on his course, where it's either a peer or the instructor. I tend to leave him for a minute or so to try figure it out himself before I make any suggestions of what he could try. I haven't yet tried climbing next to him - you are right, as is the origianl suggester, this could help....

In reply to Porridge the climber:

Thanks porridge. We have never climbed outdoors....and I need to learn to top rope. Guess this is a good enough reason to take that course! Will need to find some outdoor climbing areas around Berkshire area...

In reply to glenc:

That's a shame (but so often the case). Can you get outdoors? Mucking about on small rocks is great fun (and not just climbing, but jumping about etc. too).

As for the rope side - as an instructor, I've taken loads of kids climbing from the age of 7 and up, and generally they do pretty well. However, it is often the ones with their parents present that melt down. I'm not really sure why this is - maybe they don't feel they need to act tough, or maybe they feel more pressured? Is there anyone else that can take your son?

Another thing that helps is a good play on the rope. Swinging about just off the floor, 'SAS-stlye' bouncing lower-offs (takes careful belaying), things like that. Make him understand that the rope is really strong and he is safe. With the youngest kids, I have often physically winched them over large gaps between holds at the wall - they seem to love it all the same.

Another trick I learnt, is that when someone gets scared, getting them to do something stupid like blowing a raspberry can really break the tension and relax them.

I don't think there is a simple answer, but there are lots of things you can try. Most important of all, is to not apply pressure.

In reply to Monk:

I can get a friend to try belay him - see if that changes anything. We all stand and encourage him when he gets stuck. When he is in his class, I make sure I am nowhere near him so there's no distraction - but the feedback from the trainers is he just won't go up.

I have tried the bouncing up and down, the SAS-style descent which he loves - but only from 5ft up I have also tried slowly winching him up so he can get a good hand hold.... We do things like look around the centre and count how many people have got hurt because they fell....thankfully we are still at a count of zero every time

I will look around and see what outdoor options there are around here. Many thanks for your advice....

In reply to glenc: I used to get the fear a lot when I started, and have more or less got over it now.

One thing that seemed to help was spending a lot of time sitting around in the harness to get used to the idea that being that high up wasn't inherently dangerous, and turning it from something scary into something cool and exciting. So have you tried getting him to:
* climb up until he's just off the ground
* sit back on the harness (with a nice tight rope)
* dangle a bit, look at the view, wave, try to relax
* climb a few moves higher
* sit on the harness again
* dangle, look at the view, wave, relax
* repeat until actually quite a long way up

If anything this is going to be easier with a 7 year old because it'll be easier to keep the rope really tight and reassuring when he sits back onto it.

But I'd also reiterate what others have said - really don't put any pressure on him to do it. If nothing else, it won't make him feel any better about it if he thinks he's letting his dad down as well...

In reply to Ramblin dave:

Thanks Ramblin dave. He spends a lot of time sitting in the harness when he doesn't want to go higher. I let him just sit back and relax - although he will insist on holding the hand holds - but that's ok. Lots of good advice.

In reply to glenc:

That is not Ok, I would suggest. To me that sounds like he doesn't fully trust the system, and only when he does will he begin to relax more. I would definitely try to get him to hang on the rope at low levels, and swing about a bit (not holding the wall). Play daft games to get him to let go - maybe just one hand at a time to start with. It's all about building confidence slowly.

You said you were in Berks. Which wall are you going to?

In reply to Porridge the climber: I have the exact same thing with my son, also 7. His sister is 2 years alder and has no fear of heights at all (in fact I think she should probably get some so she has more regard for the fact that there is some risk involved!)

It is very frustrating to pay to go to a wall and then only climb the first 6 feet but patience is slowly paying off. Lots of praise then gentle encouragement to try just one hold more helps but it is a slow job. He will now get about 4 metres up before wanting to come down.

Outside he tends to cry with fear once he is around 6 feet up. Despite the fear he keeps wanting to have a go.

Interestingly a friend took him to out local indoor wall a few weeks ago without me and he climbed much better, getting up to around 6m high. Disappointing though it is to hear, I have to accept that I may be doing something that reinforces his fear.

In reply to glenc:


Have you watched how the instructors run the sessions at all? I saw one example of an introductory session that really stood out as being poor. In short, the instructor was making a bit of a game of doing a slightly fast lower off on a steep route. Nothing dangerous, but one girl who was very anxious repeatedly asked for this not to happen to her. The instructor reassured her that it wouldn't happen, but did it anyway. The other kids found it funny, and the girl seemed OK about it (when she was back down), but I couldn't help thinking that it wouldn't have helped her confidence at all.

Unlikely to be the case, as most of these sessions seem very well run, but could there be something specific to the course that has brought it on?

In reply to glenc: he is probally just nervous of falling! like you said he always wants to hold onto a hold. so why dont you try nicly perswading him to let go of the wall totally and be really enthusiatic and if all that fails get an mate to belay you up next to him to prove if he lets go he wont go anywhere. and if all that fails just hope its just a faise and take him scrambling or up easy outside climbs

In reply to lazzaw: I've been back to the wall with her since and she's fine now, but her technique is definitely better outdoors. I give her time and she thinks her way past problems that I'm sure she'd just give up at on the wall.

I would really try climbing on the rope with him (the staff at the wall may be OK if you tell them the reason) or if outside belaying from above. It makes such a psychological difference for them to climb towards you rather than away.
If I take friends kids I always do it to start with and only belay from below once they are happy.

In reply to Monk:

We go to the Reading Climbing Centre.....

He will hold the rope from 5ft or so - but insists on holds higher up

In reply to glenc:
Hi, good to see lots of positive advice on this thread.
I take the if the child says no then it means no approach!.
With Seren (age4) she'd been having some lessons (little rockers at big rock Milton keynes) where I leave her to get on with it and the instructor and then we go for fun sessions too where she does what she wants she goes up the top ropes she wants to as high or low as she wants to and spends time in the bouldering area which has routes designed for children in as well as their cute elephant. She loves the traverse wall too. What this means for me is lots of wandering around the centre and taking on and off of harnesses (She wears her helmet all the time except for a snack!) She's the boss in these sessions and we can be there for say 3 hours pottering around and she's happy. If she's not into it on a particular day it can be frustrating for me if she only does a little bit of this only goes to the top of her favourite 1 climb, but then thats my issue not hers and It's usually me being i've spent x on this! One of her friends is on the course too so I think this helps Being the only one in his class that does it probably doesn't.

When I was a kid I hated doing anything exam/test like I wasn't stupid by any means just hated always being made to feel not good enough, this has stayed and effected me throughout my adult life too so WHen I had years of piano lessons although I play/played to the top standard I never did the examinations it was what I did purely for fun maybe for now at least thats the way to go but sure I want Seren to be bouldering world champion doing both the mens and womens problems in the process but actually she is the world champion at being her

OK so I've wittered on and gushed like a proud daddy for too long sorry about that.....

In reply to glenc:

What about just letting him go up and down the bottom bit of a route a few times? As he gets more familiar with the territory, his confidence may grow, allowing him to make another move upwards. I know quite a few experienced climbers who use this technique when leading!!

In reply to tlm:

We do tend to do this. We go for an hour or so before his class, and he picks the climb(s) he wants to do. He'll go up and down a few times - same pace, same spot, same descent, same ascent point. Soon as he has to stretch slightly he backs off.... Three weeks in a row we have hit the same wall.

I think for now the best approach is going to be trying to get to the centre a couple of times a week and just chilling there - let him do what when and how he wants, see if it helps. He has a huge climbing fort in the back garden at home that he climbs higher on, so it's definitely a confidence issue. Unfortunately not many outdoor climbing options in our vicinity so will keep an eye out for statues, walls etc we can improvise with.

In reply to Howardw1968:

Thanks for the feedback Howard. Going to try the potter about approach, see if that helps any. Pride as a parent is a real bugger

In reply to Monk:

Agree - getting used to being happy and relaxed while dangling freely could help a lot, even if his feet are almost touching the floor at first...

In reply to glenc:

We had/have a similar problem with our daughter.

If the wall is a problem then ditch the wall. We took a year off climbing with her to let things cool off.

Take up scrambling and get gently harder over a couple of years. Similarly on the rock if climbing outside do stupidly easy stuff with him. Doing a mod has no negative associations for him at that age. To him its a rock climb. Plenty of praise when you reach the top. Chat about the hard bits with him and enjoy his company like any mate. At this age the thing he most wants in the world is to be with and be like Dad.

Mess about on those big boulders you occasionally find by the path when out walking in the mountains. A climb to the top gives instant satisfaction for a seven year old.

Splash out on via ferrata kit and go to France & Austria on holiday where they have small easy ferratas. Shona loves them.

When scrambling on easy stuff practice moving together with ropes. They feel like "real" mountaineers.

Always have fun. Don't push too hard. Take plenty of breaks - they don't have your strength and stamina. Don't be afraid to do "their thing". Today we climb - tomorrow we do the water park.

Finally - it can be a mistake to start them too young. They can get bored and by the time they reach an age they can lead and safely belay then climbing has become their "parent's thing" and they want to cut their own path elsewhere.

In reply to glenc: from all these replies i dont think i have seen is ask him why he wants to stop and get him to describe what he is thinking about before he gets scared, then use that as a pointer to a way forward.

In reply to tallsteve:

Hi Steve. Thanks for the good advice. We certainly do need to adopt more of an outdoor lifestyle, so will look into your suggestions. We will have to look to improvise on the scrambling/climbing side since around here its pretty darn difficult to find natural challenges / opportunities...

In reply to just:

Hi just....I have asked him and he says he's scared of falling and getting hurt, which is natural. That's where we look around the centre and I ask him if he can see anyone else falling and getting hurt - to which he replies no every time, apart from when people get grazed. We play with the rope, I lift him off his feet from the ground, he sees lead climbers miss a grip and fall then swing, so he can see the rope will never break. I lift him up and swing him by the belay loop on his harness so he can see how strong it is. Not sure there's any more I could do