UKC

I'm thinking of planning a summer trip to the British Isles in the next year or so, and I'm hoping folks here can give me some helpful advice (along with the inevitable slander). My wife and I both teach, and we are thinking of spending the summer holiday in the UK and Ireland. When the trip is more certain, I'm sure I'll ask for more advice, but right now I've got a few general questions.

The two places I'm most keen to climb are on some of the grit crags and at Fairhead. My window of opportunity is likely to be mid-June until the end of August, and I will likely be in the UK or Ireland for all of that time. I won't be climbing every day of that time, but climbing will be a big part of it.

So, when would be the best times to plan to climb at those two locations?

I'm happy to hear about other places as well, especially sport areas that are family friendly for my two daughters (who both climb). However, Fairhead and the grit are at the top of my list. I want to climb at Fairhead because I'll be traveling around Ireland anyway visiting friends and distant family, and Fairhead looks brilliant in the videos I've seen. I want to climb a good amount of grit because, well, as you all know my thirty-year climbing career in North America, South America, Europe, and Asia is all for naught unless I can look someone in the eye at the pub and answer the question, "Sure, but what have you done on grit?"

Thanks for any advice on the best time to climb between June and August.

Brian

In reply to briantreanor:

Sorry, but your guess is as good as anyones!!

British Isles weather is infamous for it's unpredictability. Some years we can have fantastic weather, others, like this year we can have loads of rain. But even in this year we have had windows of great weather.

All you can do is study past weather records and make a reasoned guess, but you may get it wrong!

In reply to briantreanor:

>on some of the grit crags and at Fairhead.

Good call, sir.

There isn't much difference between June and August, either in those two places or anywhere else in the UK, really, I'd say.

The grit is better in the winter, of course, but it can't be helped.

Our sport climbing is mostly pretty rubbish, but I suppose for 'family friendly' Portland is the most obvious suggestion, not to mention probably the most reliable from a weather point of view.

jcm

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

Thanks very much. I wish I could get to the grit in cooler weather; but as you surmise it can't be helped in this situation. Not sure if we will make it over in the summer of 2013, but it's definitely on the short list.

Brian

In reply to briantreanor:

You might want to try to get to North Wales. There is a lot of different rock types and styles within a relatively small area. If you can get on the Llanberis slate you will have a wondeful and unique experience.

You can get from the Peak district (gritstone) to North Wales in less than half a day.

Moreover, it is a truly beautiful place.

In reply to briantreanor: I wouldn't worry too much about 'conditions' on Gritstone unless you are interested in doing really hard balancy routes. A huge number of the classic easy to mid grade routes (say 5.6 to 5.10) are crack lines and those jams aren't really dependent on whether you're sweating a lot or not! Plus the weather can be windy and cool even in mid-summer, and if it's not you just head for the high up north facing crags.

If you are used to big multipitch routes, or even single pitch routes where a pitch is a rope length, be prepared for gritstone seeming rather small. Nevertheless, the views of often beautiful, the climbing great fun and there is generally a nice pub for a pint and some decent food within the vicinity.

If you are going to both England and Northern Ireland, one obvious thing to do would be to take the ferry from Anglesey in North Wales over to Ireland, then all of Snowdonia and the N. Wales climbing areas would be 'en route' from for example the gritstone area between Sheffield and Manchester and getting to Fairhead.

One great thing about the UK is that there are now really good, up-to-date guidebooks available with huge amounts of practical info in them for first time visitors to an area as well as the actual route descriptions and topos.

In reply to briantreanor:

One obvious way to get decent grit conditions in summer is just to use a bit of common sense - wait until its windy to drive off the midges, get on the crags early before it warms up too much, go to crags like Millstone when it is warm and do the cracks etc etc.

I would suggest trying Pembroke and Gogarth though for that real sea cliff experience - or even Lundy if youre really keen. Sea cliff climbing is pretty unique to our litle island so it may be worth trying to get some in while youre here.

Have a good one.

In reply to briantreanor:

I'd definitely consider including North Wales on the agenda.
1. Huge variety (seacliffs, mountain crags, sport crags, slate) of brilliant climbing in a small area with something to match any conditions
2. Grit ain't that good in summer heat
3. You can get the Holyhead-Dublin ferry from Ireland to Wales

No reason why you can't grab a bit of grit - it's only 2hours or so from N Wales to Peak District - but I wouldn't make it the focus of your trip. Remember, we are a small island and you can get around quickly.

In reply to robw007: I'd agree with going to Pembroke or Gogarth for some sea cliff climbing, Gogarth isn't really family friendly and nor are many parts of Pembroke.

Re. grit conditions etc if you ask on here near the time there are plenty of people who will give good advice as to the best crags to visit for the prevailing conditions etc. Grit is also fairly family friendly and I'm sure your climbing daughters would have a good day or 3 out on it too.

In reply to briantreanor:

Grit is wildly over-rated. A visiting American writes:

Suddenly it dawned on me that these boulders were the fabled gritstone. Dear Lord, I thought, the poor island and its inhabitants.

http://www.alpinist.com/doc/ALP08/editors-note-monsters

Don't even think about sport-climbing unless you are climbing 5.13: more than 100 years of intensive development before bolting became accepted accounted for all the half-decent climbing easier than this.

The world-class climbing here is mainly in in Scotland, Northern Ireland and on the sea cliffs. Scotland is a particularly risky proposition weather-wise, but fabulous if you get lucky/do your planning.

I'd be assembling a hit list of routes and venues and keep your plans flexible according to the weather. It's a small country and it's possible to switch areas quite quickly. Finally,it would help to know what style(s) of climbing you prefer and what grades you operate at. Advice to someone comfortable with Eldo. 5.11+ R and to someone who prefers Owen's River Gorge 5.9 will differ.

In reply to briantreanor:

When we visit the SW states even with the normally reliable weather we have several itineries in reserve and it pays: including a good visit to Joshua Tree in September when snowed out of Tahoe. The UK weather is completely unpredictable and I'd say keep your hit list but follow the weather. We tend to get strings of atlantic lows (anything from rain for weeks to a nice sunshine shower pattern that is cooling and by looking at the rainfall radar on the internet often gives great half days) interspersed wth the occasional stable high pressure area.

I'd strongly recommend North Wales as a venue as you get limestone, slate, volcanics, quartzite etc (all but grit really) in a small beautiful area with good and bad weather options on mountains and seacliffs (most people would rate Gogarth as better than Fairhead)...based in the climbing centre of Llanberis: it sort of sums up UK climbing and the ferry to Ireland is round the corner if the weather looks good for a while. Scotland is arguably better but the distances are bigger and the bad weather options fewer. As others have said, in summer, gritstone is best on a breezy day as its cooler and the midges won't come out (ditto the mountain crags).

In reply to briantreanor:

June is 'usually' drier, cooler and more settled than August (though this year, June was the wettest for 100 years).
To my mind the UK venues that are especially unique, and thus worth putting on 'the list' are the Grit, the Pembrokeshire sea cliffs and Cornwall's granite sea cliffs.


Chris

In reply to duncan:

Although he is paraphrasing Swift from "Gulliver's Travels", and I suspect the quote was as more about making a good joke than accurate reporting.

Grit is not over-rated and is part of the DNA of British climbing - the OP would be insane to miss out on that experience.

In reply to EarlyBird:

Agreed. I'm keen for the experience, and height/exposure is only one part of that. One also has to account for history, tradition, story, adventurousness, and so on. I've done plenty of 'big' things and I love that as well, but I'm keen to experience the grit. There was a thread over on Supertopo recently debating the value of grit-style climbing, and Rick Accomazzo and I both lauded the virtue of being able to squeeze genuine adventure out of thirty foot cliffs. There's something beautiful in that, and in the history and tradition that preserves it. Oh, I'll still go back to the big walls and the mountains, but I'd be over the moon to have climbing in my area like the grit--something steeped in tradition and adventure rather than another forgettable pile of sport-climbing choss (sport-climbing is fine as far as it goes, but there are a number of real piles of junk in Southern California). It does sound, however, that I'll be missing prime conditions. I'd hoped to push the boat out as far as E3-E5 (though of course I'm ready to eat some humble pie and would start out on much easier routes), but it sounds as if I won't get any of the fabled cool, crisp, sticky days that are best for grit. Maybe I'll have to figure out a way to get out there in the autumn. It's not entirely out of the question, although it would take more planning.

Thanks much for the tip on North Wales. I've seen and read about those routes as well, and it makes good sense to get down there and experience that as well, if possible. I'll add it to the list; however, depending on the length of the trip, and the time of the year, I'll have to balance experiencing lots of different places with experiencing fewer places in more depth. Since I know I definitely want to get over to Ireland as well, I'll have to see what works. I lived in London in 92-93 for a short while, and made it up to do a few things in Scotland. This time I really want to be selective and get to Fairhead, the grit, and so on. It does sound, however, as if Wales is good to add to the mix.

Thanks for the encouraging responses. It's always exciting to begin planning a climbing trip to new destinations!

Brian

In reply to briantreanor:

I would add to a lot of what has been said - grit is best in the winter (if it's not raining!). However, as we don't in general have very warm summers, you may well be ok. The weather is so up and down you could have a heatwave any time between April and October but more likely it will be normal changeable weather Nowadays we seem to have quite wet July/August weather even though this is supposed to be high summer. We often get more settled weather, or so it seems, in the spring or autumn. This year, for example, we had a mini heatwave in the Spring for 2-3 weeks then it's more or less rained all summer, only improving a little for the olympics (luckily). Last weekend was very nice (if a bit humid) but this week it's back to the same unsettled pattern we've had for most of the summer. Hopefully we will get a more settled period as we move into Autumn. Basically, anything could happen!

I'd second thinking about doing some of the classics in North Wales. if you like your climbing history and lines, look at stuff like Cenotaph Corner (E1) on Dinas Cromlech as well as Left Wall (E2) for example. Also a load of superb classics at Tremadog - such as Vector (E2). Or the slate or sea cliffs at Gogarth as already mentioned. The volcanic rock in N Wales is less friction dependent too of course.

if you're really really going well you need to take a look at Strawberries at Tremadog. Brits seems to have a torrid time on it but visitors seem to have no problem getting the on-sight

In reply to duncan:

Grit is certainly peculiar, and I can't really imagine how it would seem to a visitor. If you live next to it and climb on it for years its easy to appreciate its magic. The gearless ankle-breaking micro-routes with a single friction move above a dreadful landing can, believe it or not, be amazing climbing experiences which live as long in the memory as as 10 picthes on an alpine face. But I think it takes a lot of getting into.

As such, maybe call in on the grit to see what it's like (and maybe prepare to do some bouldering) but personally I would advise against making it a big part of the trip.

By far my favourite climbing desitination in the UK is the NW Highlands of Scotland. Diabaig, Sheigra, Reiff, and Stac Pollaidh are the most beautiful crags I've ever climbed on. If you get the weather, the mountain crags offer a different degree of scale and adventure. The scenery is like nothing I've experienced anywhere in the world and the climbing is incredible and varied. The weather and midges are issues, but the coast (where many of the amazing crags lie) is often fine. I think it's really worth the journey. Better earlier in the summer.

As others say, North Wales offers a huge variety in a small area. Gogarth is a brilliant climbing destination, but it can be rather adventurous - and very rewarding. Often sunny when the mountains are wet. The slate occupies a similar appeal to grit: a unique, quirky, small-scale experience which some people love.

Pembroke is excellent - single pitch trad sea cliffs. Less adventurous than Gogarth, with more reliable rock, easier approaches and shorter routes, but the big pitches can still feel like a quite an adventure (especially if the tide's coming in at an alarming rate).

The furthest tip of Cornwall is fantastic. Sea cliffs on beautiful granite and some other interesting rock types offering single and multi-pitch climbing from the very scary and adventurous (e.g. in the Great Zawn at Bosigran) to much tamer accessible single-pitch stuff.

Sport climbing in the UK is not really as it is elsewhere. Plenty of very hard, very polished, very short routes, but there are no sport climbing destinations comparable to a trip over in Europe where you might expect to have 'fun' in a conventional way. Low-grade sport climbing in this country tends to be in unattractive locations and sometimes on appalling choss. Unless you want to try some hard, short, polished test-pieces I would say: avoid.

Hope that's helpful. Have a good browse through the photos on here for inspiration.

In reply to briantreanor: As others have suggested, weather can cause "The best-laid schemes o' mice an' men" to "Gang aft agley" as some Scots guy said. We can have fantastic weather at any time of year and terrible weather at any time of year. Having said that, statistically August is the wettest (or nearly so) of the summer months almost throughout the UK (and is THE wettest in lots of areas), and June is generally better (if not this year). If you can, adapt your plans when you see the 5 day forecast (usually fairly reliable) on Met Office or BBC web sites. In unsettled summer weather in the UK your best chance of good weather is often on the coast as the warmer air over the land creates thermal instability leading to heavy showers/thunderstorms. So people's suggestions of Anglesey, Pembroke and even Cornwall (long trek) make sense in those conditions.
You mention history - well, I guess the mountain crags of Lakes and North Wales have the most of that if you get good enough weather. But I guess if you're climbing middle to high E-grades there won't be LONG history attached!
If family friendly stuff is most important, sea cliffs are not perhaps the best, nor the big multi pitch mountain crags with often biggish walk-ins. Grit certainly scores there.
Anyway, whatever you do, I hope you get the weather. Surely we can't have a repeat of this summer .... can we?

In reply to briantreanor:
Generally, June and July are better as August tends to be unsettled with more storms and such.

Actually, as a student I would say May and June are usually amazing as that's when I'm revising Every single year, glorious when I'm stuck inside, then starts raining the day exams are over!

In reply to briantreanor:

There is no doubt you can't beat the glorious autumn/ winter days when the sun is shining, the air feels crispy cold and the grit is just perfect....

Back in the real world, you just have to make the best of what you get It's great that you're keen to see the grit, and if you're here in summer then I'm sure you will enjoy it anyway. I had a great morning recently in the really hot weather; I was desperate to climb outside, thought it would probably be too hot but headed up to Stanage for some bouldering anyway. I ended up having a great time, with the place to myself enjoying some of the classic stuff.

You do really, really need to avoid the midges though.

In reply to briantreanor:

Fairhead is a must, surprisingly few Brit climbers make the relatively short hop to this top world class crag. June is the best time to go to get sun on this North facing crag, also long hours of daylight will be particularly useful. also great place to explore local villages, Irish pubs and the (slightly over rated) Giant's Causeway. The ferry from Holyhead to Dublin is a very long way round - much better to get the ferry from Liverpool to Belfast or better still from Stranraer (South West Scotland) alternatively budget flights Liverpool to Belfast and hire car.

As others have said Gogarth and Pembroke are greatly uniquely British climbing experiences. Do what we do and choose between Gogarth and Grit depending on prevailing weather (also tides). Sometimes Americans don't realise how close together different climbing areas are in the UK; you can climb on grit in the afternoon after getting rained off Gogarth in the morning.

SW Cornwal and Pembroke are both spectacular coasts with excellent climbing, each well worth a week to explore.

Enjoy but bring your rain gear

In reply to Offwidth:

>(most people would rate Gogarth as better than Fairhead)

I'm not sure about that! In my experience anyone who's been to Fair Head agrees that it's the equal of any crag in these islands.

jcm

In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

I agree, I'm passionate about both having climbed around 70 routes at Gogarth and made five trips to fairhead. I've nothing against grit but some of the above posters based around Sheffield would be rewarded by making the effort to explore more of the UK

Thanks very much for all the responses here, as well as the couple of people who have sent me emails. It's all very much appreciated.

I'm not sure we'll get things together for the summer of 2013, but we'll see...

I hope you are all enjoying the summer and getting after it. We've just been up in Tuolumne Meadows and some Eastside crags for a week. Also, the fall term will be starting up at the end of the month and it will cut into my climbing.

Brian

In reply to kevin stephens:
I've nothing against grit but some of the above posters based around Sheffield would be rewarded by making the effort to explore more of the UK

That's so wonderfully scathing, thank you! The OP requested advice on visiting his chosen destination, and actually gave his reasons for that. I love the way people have to turn this into a 'which bit of the UK should someone visit' argument, completely ignoring the OP's own preferences.

Brian, the UK is actually a nice place, mostly full of nice people. I'm sure you'll have a great trip.

In reply to briantreanor:

You've got loads of info already, so I'm just going to add the fact that gritstone is not limited to the peak district. I'd recommend the crags in Yorkshire and Staffordshire which can both quieter and just as good (some might say even better) than the usual honey pots of Stanage and the like. If you get into the rounded and the brutal you will probably enjoy a day at Almscliffe just as much as the spanking you'll receive at Curbar.

In reply to briantreanor:

4 words: brown sauce & Heptonstall Quarry

In reply to briantreanor: slander... those that can, do.. those that cant, teach....!-)

As you may have realised any time between june and august could be good, you want nice warmer days for the sea cliffs and cooler days for grit,

If you can be flexible then be so and once here take gambles on the weather,

if a month long road trip style then yes you can take in portland, devon, cornwall, pembroke, tour ireland (sorry not good on irish areas, but the Burren is as pituresque as it can get and cliffs of moher are amazing), back across into wales then to grit, then back to london, but you miss the Lake District and Scotland then..... and you will be driving for a day or half day between each climbing area, maybe not so fun for the kids

if plan is spend time at a location tasting routes and crags, then a tour of Yorkshire (you can do Grit and Limestone here) followed by Ireland or other way around, plenty of tourist things and scenery to do

Weekdays are best for grit usually, especially if you want to do the classic routes

good luck planning the trip, and the weather when you get here, I would suggest good practice would be to stare at the glass on you shower surround from the outside for about 3 days, waste of water but good practice.

P.S. what the american equivalent of "what have you ever done on grit?"

In reply to gear boy:


You're gonna die...

In reply to briantreanor:
If I were you, I'd definitely try to make it to Scotland (especially Skye or the islands). Sure, grit is legendary, but try a 4 star route in Scotland and it will be a breathtaking experience of a lifetime, you will forget the midges, and the fact that it rained 90% of the time (although that doesn't have to happen, you might get an amazing spell of sunshine), and when someone asks you what have you ever done on grit, you won't even hear the question as you will be deep in your thoughts, reminiscing of the stunning landscapes you climbed through in Scotland..

In reply to briantreanor:

Grit and Fairhead are two amazing choices, you'll have a ball.

The best kept secret in these Isles though is sea cliffs, mostly on the West coasts of Scotland, England & Wales. Fairhead, whilst by the sea, is not a sea cliff, so I would recommend visiting a proper one if you want the full Brit Tick, Gogarth Main Wall would do it - MAGNIFICENT at your grade range. Scotland is a faff, you've already been, you don't have time and you'll get eaten alive when you're not getting pissed on

Newfoundland is the only place I've heard of in North America comparable to British sea cliffs, unless you know different?

Jon (Vancouver)

In reply to briantreanor:

PS. Care to divulge your grit tick list?

In reply to jonny2vests (Vanwhatever):

Everyone knows you're just a Sheffield area export who was only really happy climbing on grit and that disagreeing with well known men of the people like Kevin and John on the common view is silly. Its my fault though for suggesting some people might prefer one world class venue over another

Its all a bit like yorkshire bouldering venues... all the top ones are the best! That everything can be the best is a useful thing to remember for any visitor!

In reply to Jon Stewart:


Less peculiar than you might expect, depending on where they've climbed. If Brian has climbed at the Red River Gorge in Kentucky, or the New River Gorge in West Virginia, then the style of climbing won't be too unfamiliar; gritstone is sandstone when all's said and done, albeit a distinctive sort, and whilst the RRG and NRG aren't exactly the same, they're similar enough to make gritstone seem not completely other-wordly.

But that's not to say that it would be a wasted trip. It would be well worth ticking a few of the classic lines, though which ones depends on Brian's leading grades. It would also be worth backing these down a few notches to get used to the style of climbing gritstone requires at first.

A day or two in north Wales whilst on the way to or coming back from Ireland would be time well spent too. Dream of White Horses should definitely be on the tick list, as should some of the Snowdonia classics either at Cloggy or in the Llanberis pass depending on weather, preferences and the like.

Just a few thoughts, hope they help.

T.

In reply to Pursued by a bear:

Agreed...you could add that the very common US granite venues teach all the same skills that you need on grit. Glacial polish is certainly a lot worse in my experience than that from multiple top-ropers.

My recommendations for a grit visit would be a big weathered crag (Hen Cloud maybe would top my list for comeone with Yosemite mileage) a bouldering venue (any of the yorkshire big hitters would do and you could swap Hen Cloud for Almscliffe and get two ticks in one) and a quarry (probaly Millstone).

I agree with Jon (vandriver) that the seacliffs are perhaps the most undersold classic venues of the UK.

In reply to jon:

Good call.

In reply to Offwidth:

Jonny2Vans

Ner ner

PS. I miss Sheffield, any recommendations for a visit? Meadowhall?

In reply to jonny2vests:

I think you might mean dee dah (rather than ner ner) unless of course you lack proper Sheffield knowledge. You could also join the search for the arse-house interface; there was an ace radio 4 show on this recently that I would recommend to any visitor from the US, as a near perfect British mad obsession:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01ljwm4

I hear the Park Hill and Manor Estates are two of the best places to live in the uk (for hardmen).

Good God you folks are helpful. Seriously. Thanks very much. If one of you were to post a similar request on Supertopo, the signal to noise ratio would scare you away--maybe 1 helpful response for every 10-20 sarcastic snubs! (I like Supertopo, and there are plenty of good folks there; but I've seen posts like this get buried in slander without much help to the visiting climber...).

We are sill scheming to see if we will make it to the UK next summer. There are other potential trips in the running (as teachers, we try to get away most summer holidays). Not to worry, however, as I'm certain we'll rotate in the UK trip in the next couple of years. Many thanks as well to the several people who have emailed me directly. I'll be sure to contact you when we finalize plans and I know when we will be there.

To answer some other questions:

I don't have a proper Grit tick list yet. It's not because I'm being cagy; I'm fully prepared to be humbled before I get my sea legs, so to speak. Often the clips I've seen in video are above my grade. It's not like I'll be coming over to onsight Birkett lines or anything like that! I'll need to finalize plans before I order a guidebook and start dreaming in specifics.

I'd love to get to many of the places mentioned, but even if we are there for a full 2.5-3 month trip, I'm guessing we'll need to be somewhat selective. With the family, I won't be climbing every day.

Sea stacks sound like a great idea. For that, however, I'd likely need to tie in with a local partner or climbing club. My wife climbs, but more casually and generally as a support to our two daughters, who are becoming keen climbers.

As to my grade and experience... I'm old enough and I've been climbing long enough that it often feels like I'm on the downhill side of the slope. But I'm young enough and I've been climbing long enough that it still seems reasonable, not delusional, that on a good day with enough focus and effort I can pull myself up climbs as hard as I did at my peak (and I still dream about climbing harder--it still seems reasonable to dream). Perhaps some folks on this site can relate. To get specific about grades, in the event anyone feels inclined to mention specific routes, I think it's reasonable to aim as high as E6 if the route is well protected--and at that grade I'm talking sport-climbing well protected or a crack I can sew up! For necky routes, I think that something in the neighborhood of E2-E4 is more likely. At those lower grades, I'd be willing to jump on what we would call "R" routes in the US, but not "X" routes. I'm not interested in breaking my back or worse in front of the family (or actually in general). Again, this is just speculation. I love to try hard and challenge myself, but I'm finally getting old enough that I can recognize that, some days, it just isn't happening and it's better to just have fun at a lower, or even much lower, grade. Ultimately I'm interested in routes of all types and any difficulty (that I can get up). It's easy for route discussions to degenerate into name dropping of hard or high profile routes, but I'd be excited to climb classic or otherwise special HSV or E1 routes, to do a long and beautiful hill-walk with some good bouldering along the way, or just to top-rope some routes with a great view with the family.

I've climbed loads in Yosemite and the Sierra, including the glacial polish nightmares of Tuolumne, but never in the Red or the New. Lots of sandstone, however, in Red Rocks, Moab, Zion, and the desert southwest. There was one little crag in New England (when I was in grad school) that the guidebook claimed to be 'grit-like', but it didn't seem that special and certainly didn't have the compact look of British grit. Never climbed in eastern Canada except for some ice.

Sorry for the long reply, but I feel compelled to engage with so many helpful responses. Again, really, thanks.

Brian

In reply to briantreanor: both good choices! for gritstone the Roaches and Stanage in the Peak District are both good calls, with a wide range of grades. Stanage is seen as one of the main climbing areas in the UK, and if you're willing to take a wander along the ridge you'll find some nice quiet area to climb in. The Roaches has some nice bouldering below the crag, single pitch climbing on the lower tier, and multipitch and single-pitch climbing on the upper tier.
North Wales is also an amazing place to climb, with lots of different rock types and a great history, the grades tend to be abit higher, but who can turn down the chance to climb in cloggy?! its mainly slate and ryholite over there, the former can be abit chancy if you're placing protection, but the latter is amazing, just fast-cooled granite, and quite similar to gritstone in many ways.
Hope this helps! happy climbing and fingers crossed for the fickle British weather.

In reply to briantreanor:

When people tell you Peaks Gritstone is the best, they are talking out of the fundaments.

Yorkshire grit is the best as every school child in the UK knows.

You need to head for Almscliffe at the very least, Ilkley if only to look up at New Statesman, Widdop for more JD related japery and have a go at Forked lightning Crack at Heptonstall.

Enjoy your trip.

In reply to John Rushby:

p.s i am now sadly, a fat punter with tendonitis and a free floating shoulder and a titanium head, but I would be happy to send you some more info.

PM me and i'll get you one of my old raggedy copies of Yorkshire Gritstone across.

In reply to John Rushby:
I've recently moved up to Yorkshire. It would be nice if you were right.

In reply to briantreanor:
>
I'm keen for the experience, and height/exposure is only one part of that. One also has to account for history, tradition, story, adventurousness, and so on. I've done plenty of 'big' things and I love that as well, but I'm keen to experience the grit. There was a thread over on Supertopo recently debating the value of grit-style climbing, and Rick Accomazzo and I both lauded the virtue of being able to squeeze genuine adventure out of thirty foot cliffs. There's something beautiful in that, and in the history and tradition that preserves it.

Spoken like a true philosopher

In reply to Jon Stewart:

Aha - as an incomer, you have not been shown the secret grit.

In reply to John Foster:

Yup

+1