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A friend of mine does fashion and is interested in this area. Maybe I will get some free custom gear . She asked me what I thought was missing or was not quite up to the job in climbing clothing, and I struggled to give a few vague answers.
Just wondered if anyone had any ingenious ideas worth stealing and making millions off ta . She is interested in some futuristic textiles that change properties at certain temps etc.
What do you feel is missing or inadequate in the active clothing market? Any ideas?
Just wondered if anyone had any ingenious ideas worth stealing and making millions off ta . She is interested in some futuristic textiles that change properties at certain temps etc.
What do you feel is missing or inadequate in the active clothing market? Any ideas?
In reply to FreshSlate: Accelerometer-activated airbags in the heels of your climbing shoes for when you fall.
In reply to FreshSlate:
All the outdoorsy women who get pregnant can't fit into their waterproofs, softshells and down jackets.
Get someone to design a simple zip in "extension" (in various textiles and colours) if you like, so their outdoor clothes are effectively bigger at the front and fit them throughout their pregnancy. Cha Ching, money dans le bank.
All the outdoorsy women who get pregnant can't fit into their waterproofs, softshells and down jackets.
Get someone to design a simple zip in "extension" (in various textiles and colours) if you like, so their outdoor clothes are effectively bigger at the front and fit them throughout their pregnancy. Cha Ching, money dans le bank.
In reply to FreshSlate: Smocks. As in jackets that only unzip to chest level.
Waterproof smocks.
Fleece smocks.
Softshell smocks
Down/synthetic smocks
I'd buy the lot if they were available and with good hoods.
Waterproof smocks.
Fleece smocks.
Softshell smocks
Down/synthetic smocks
I'd buy the lot if they were available and with good hoods.
In reply to dutybooty:
what's the benefit over garments that zip all the way down (serious question)
what's the benefit over garments that zip all the way down (serious question)
In reply to ledifer:
what's the benefit over garments that zip all the way down (serious question)
One benefit is that you can have a through pocket.
what's the benefit over garments that zip all the way down (serious question)
One benefit is that you can have a through pocket.
In reply to MJ:
Very much so. A major factor in several ways.
Smocks need rebranding to be less anorak-ish.
> (In reply to ledifer)
>
> what's the benefit over garments that zip all the way down (serious question)
>
> One benefit is that you can have a through pocket.
>
> what's the benefit over garments that zip all the way down (serious question)
>
> One benefit is that you can have a through pocket.
Very much so. A major factor in several ways.
Smocks need rebranding to be less anorak-ish.
In reply to ledifer: I like through pockets. I like not having to faff with a zip. They bunch up less as there isn't a rigid thing all the way down them. I just think they're more comfy, practical and over a whole days worth of clothes, you might just save 100g :P
In reply to Submit to Gravity:
Or....going one step further.
These don't help you climb..."it's Beta Jim but not as we know it"
youtube.com/watch?v=qL1WqN1XKK0&
I'm sure I had some ski boots that looked like that in the eighties!
> Accelerometer-activated airbags in the heels of your climbing shoes for when you fall.
Or....going one step further.
These don't help you climb..."it's Beta Jim but not as we know it"
youtube.com/watch?v=qL1WqN1XKK0&
I'm sure I had some ski boots that looked like that in the eighties!
In reply to ice.solo:
I was gutted when Patagonia redesigned the Knifeblade smock with a full zip. I knew I should have bought one last year - it was never going to be a big enough seller to stay in the line for long.
I was gutted when Patagonia redesigned the Knifeblade smock with a full zip. I knew I should have bought one last year - it was never going to be a big enough seller to stay in the line for long.
In reply to chris_s:
some people i know do a neoshell alpine smock. an interesting design that works well i found. not cheap tho.
send me a message if youre interested in one.
some people i know do a neoshell alpine smock. an interesting design that works well i found. not cheap tho.
send me a message if youre interested in one.
In reply to MJ:
What's a through pocket?
> (In reply to ledifer)
>
> what's the benefit over garments that zip all the way down (serious question)
>
> One benefit is that you can have a through pocket.
>
> what's the benefit over garments that zip all the way down (serious question)
>
> One benefit is that you can have a through pocket.
What's a through pocket?
In reply to Submit to Gravity:
A pocket you stick both your hands in, like in the front of a peak smock.
http://www.climbers-shop.com/9428544/products/rab_peak_smock.aspx
A pocket you stick both your hands in, like in the front of a peak smock.
http://www.climbers-shop.com/9428544/products/rab_peak_smock.aspx
In reply to FreshSlate: Electric blanket midlayers, it'd so be worth the battery pack on belay duty, just flick the switch, no f*cking about with belay jackets, shivering limbs, just press the button.
On a serious note, "what's missing from outdoor functional wear" is functionality and fit. The outdoor clothing market is based around the high street and most clothing tailored to use outside carries a higher price tag or just doesn't sell. Most manufacturers can't get simple things right without charging a fortune for it, I'm talking about how few mid/low priced jackets have pockets in sensible locations, how most male jackets have the same waist circumference as the chest. For e.g. try buying a non-GTX waterproof from a big brand that has an 'athletic fit', sensible pocket locations, a good hood and a robust face fabric! Not impossible I imagine but the pickings are slim considering you're basically asking for an £80 RG1 with the pockets a bit higher, a bit less fabric in the waist and a bigger hood, but you need to add on another £100 for that kind of carry on.
These aren't the manufacturers fault by the way, supply and demand. People who do a lot of outdoor stuff tend to prefer robust and good value clothing and don't replace it till it's worn out. Fashion is where the cash gets splashed and that's what makes the companies money. I really wish more companies would refrain from making all their fitted garments in the higher price ranges though, I'm buying less fabric ffs, give me a discount?
Ben
On a serious note, "what's missing from outdoor functional wear" is functionality and fit. The outdoor clothing market is based around the high street and most clothing tailored to use outside carries a higher price tag or just doesn't sell. Most manufacturers can't get simple things right without charging a fortune for it, I'm talking about how few mid/low priced jackets have pockets in sensible locations, how most male jackets have the same waist circumference as the chest. For e.g. try buying a non-GTX waterproof from a big brand that has an 'athletic fit', sensible pocket locations, a good hood and a robust face fabric! Not impossible I imagine but the pickings are slim considering you're basically asking for an £80 RG1 with the pockets a bit higher, a bit less fabric in the waist and a bigger hood, but you need to add on another £100 for that kind of carry on.
These aren't the manufacturers fault by the way, supply and demand. People who do a lot of outdoor stuff tend to prefer robust and good value clothing and don't replace it till it's worn out. Fashion is where the cash gets splashed and that's what makes the companies money. I really wish more companies would refrain from making all their fitted garments in the higher price ranges though, I'm buying less fabric ffs, give me a discount?
Ben
In reply to Denni: Cheers)
In reply to sbc_10:
Sod the hover boots, I'd be happy with that chalk bag, not a grain of chalk lost.
Sod the hover boots, I'd be happy with that chalk bag, not a grain of chalk lost.
In reply to Sharp: Didn't Berghaus try that, only to give up cause people were getting burned and electrocuted?
Well pattered garments, with good proper fit and articulation are seriously missing from all areas of the clothing world. And before anyone says that it is expensive to make technical clothing patterns, its utter bullshit. How can a £15 jacket with near 80 seams and the most ridiculously over complicated, un-articulated patterning be cheaper than a £400 jacket with neither.
Time and time again brands both good and crap, f*ck things up by sticking an un-necessary seam onto a jacket or trousers which neither has function or any good style and only leads to tension points that reduce the articulation and overall function of the garment. Or outfit their well patterned and articulated jackets with a cut that is designed for a short tubby person for which the majority of climbers are neither.
Well pattered garments, with good proper fit and articulation are seriously missing from all areas of the clothing world. And before anyone says that it is expensive to make technical clothing patterns, its utter bullshit. How can a £15 jacket with near 80 seams and the most ridiculously over complicated, un-articulated patterning be cheaper than a £400 jacket with neither.
Time and time again brands both good and crap, f*ck things up by sticking an un-necessary seam onto a jacket or trousers which neither has function or any good style and only leads to tension points that reduce the articulation and overall function of the garment. Or outfit their well patterned and articulated jackets with a cut that is designed for a short tubby person for which the majority of climbers are neither.
In reply to FreshSlate:
A brand that offers technical kit in a range of fits? Walk in to Gap or Next or anywhere on the high street and you can have your pick of different jean cuts but walk in to any outdoor shop and you're out of luck and out of pocket too!
A brand that offers technical kit in a range of fits? Walk in to Gap or Next or anywhere on the high street and you can have your pick of different jean cuts but walk in to any outdoor shop and you're out of luck and out of pocket too!
In reply to GrendeI:
Not sure it works like that - simplicity doesn't necessarily equal cheap. There's a huge amount of development and engineering that goes into quality products with clean lines.
> How can a £15 jacket with near 80 seams and the most ridiculously over complicated, un-articulated patterning be cheaper than a £400 jacket with neither.
Not sure it works like that - simplicity doesn't necessarily equal cheap. There's a huge amount of development and engineering that goes into quality products with clean lines.
In reply to FreshSlate: an other instructor I worked with recently had a super lightweight primaloft smock that he used as a fleece - its lighter and warmer and packs smaller than your average fleece. I thought this was a great idea, except a woman's equivalent doesn't exist. Id like one of those!
I did find an ultralight down jacket on a fashiony website (uniqlo) which I'm using for that purpose and liking it, but you do still have to keep it dry.
I did find an ultralight down jacket on a fashiony website (uniqlo) which I'm using for that purpose and liking it, but you do still have to keep it dry.
In reply to girlymonkey: Girlymonkey. I think what your friend possibly had was a patagonia nano puff.
They do a womens version here:
http://www.patagonia.com/eu/enGB/product/womens-nano-puff-pullover?p=84026-...
Speaking of the nano-puff. Perfect item of clothing, rate one to anyone, I've worn mine every single day (apart from holidays) since the day I bought it about a year and a half ago. Still almost perfect, a few loose threads, elastic on the wrists is starting to go, but after I reckon about 400 days use working a manual job etc thats not bad going!
Its even been caving!
They do a womens version here:
http://www.patagonia.com/eu/enGB/product/womens-nano-puff-pullover?p=84026-...
Speaking of the nano-puff. Perfect item of clothing, rate one to anyone, I've worn mine every single day (apart from holidays) since the day I bought it about a year and a half ago. Still almost perfect, a few loose threads, elastic on the wrists is starting to go, but after I reckon about 400 days use working a manual job etc thats not bad going!
Its even been caving!
In reply to FreshSlate:
One thing I would love to see available would be a onesie type base layer (preferably with thumb loops and piss and poop access.
One thing I would love to see available would be a onesie type base layer (preferably with thumb loops and piss and poop access.
In reply to lost1977: I'll second you with that lost1977. I toyed with the idea of using a very light caving undersuit before realising it was still as heavy as powerstretch.
In reply to FreshSlate:
Mrs Turdus likes to walk and scramble in a skirt in the summer. Very convenient for all sorts of reasons. They don't seem to be available in quick drying and appealing technical fabrics though.
Mrs Turdus likes to walk and scramble in a skirt in the summer. Very convenient for all sorts of reasons. They don't seem to be available in quick drying and appealing technical fabrics though.
In reply to FreshSlate:
An activly powered smart fabric that spends energy from batteries or biomechanical energy capture to transport moisture from inside the garment to outside, to make waterproofs that keep you bone dry even when working hard in heavy rain. Perhaps a series of purely mechanical nano pores could be designed that employ the fabrics bending directly with one way valves, like the way blood is pumped out of human legs.
An activly powered smart fabric that spends energy from batteries or biomechanical energy capture to transport moisture from inside the garment to outside, to make waterproofs that keep you bone dry even when working hard in heavy rain. Perhaps a series of purely mechanical nano pores could be designed that employ the fabrics bending directly with one way valves, like the way blood is pumped out of human legs.
In reply to FreshSlate:
Made to measure gear. It should be easy with the web as a place to input measurements and choose fabrics and colours. I've seen it used for other types of clothes - shirts and jackets, and people are prepared to pay a bit extra.
We are always seeing threads on here bemoaning the fact that if they want long trousers, they end up being far too wide, or small women saying that they can't get stuff to fit. I find it hard to get well fitted gear and just end up with big gaps here and there...
> What do you feel is missing or inadequate in the active clothing market? Any ideas?
Made to measure gear. It should be easy with the web as a place to input measurements and choose fabrics and colours. I've seen it used for other types of clothes - shirts and jackets, and people are prepared to pay a bit extra.
We are always seeing threads on here bemoaning the fact that if they want long trousers, they end up being far too wide, or small women saying that they can't get stuff to fit. I find it hard to get well fitted gear and just end up with big gaps here and there...
In reply to Sharp:
A few years ago....
http://www.outdoorsmagic.com/gear-news/tnf-heated-jacket-scoops-innovation-...
> (In reply to r0x0r.wolfo) Electric blanket midlayers, it'd so be worth the battery pack on belay duty, just flick the switch, no f*cking about with belay jackets, shivering limbs, just press the button.
A few years ago....
http://www.outdoorsmagic.com/gear-news/tnf-heated-jacket-scoops-innovation-...
In reply to Turdus torquatus:
http://www.cotswoldoutdoor.com/womens/trousers-skirts/skirts
> (In reply to r0x0r.wolfo)
>
> Mrs Turdus likes to walk and scramble in a skirt in the summer. Very convenient for all sorts of reasons. They don't seem to be available in quick drying and appealing technical fabrics though.
>
> Mrs Turdus likes to walk and scramble in a skirt in the summer. Very convenient for all sorts of reasons. They don't seem to be available in quick drying and appealing technical fabrics though.
http://www.cotswoldoutdoor.com/womens/trousers-skirts/skirts
In reply to FreshSlate:
Here is an example of what would be great (but this one is for shirts). It would answer so many of the other requests on here too...
http://www.tailorstore.co.uk/shirts?gclid=CKjO0rjS2roCFdPItAodJwYA2A
Here is an example of what would be great (but this one is for shirts). It would answer so many of the other requests on here too...
http://www.tailorstore.co.uk/shirts?gclid=CKjO0rjS2roCFdPItAodJwYA2A
In reply to lost1977:
Here ypu go:
http://www.patagonia.com/eu/enGB/product/mens-capilene-4-baselayer-expediti...
Here ypu go:
http://www.patagonia.com/eu/enGB/product/mens-capilene-4-baselayer-expediti...
In reply to Denni:
Probably not so simple, because of the different types and lengths of zips - but even if you had to buy a new jacket, would be good if you knew you'd be able to wear it after pregnancy by zipping out the panel. Or by zipping in a bigger one, you could carry baby in in a sling under your coat, which is much easier than trying to wrestle a newborn into a snowsuit - google baby wearing coats - there are some, mainly Scandiandian or US, but none very technical.
And an even bigger gap - breastfeeding friendly base layers! Damn cold feeding baby up a hill in winter if you have to lift up all your layers I eventually found one NZ merino one, but there's basically nothing....
NZ also do zip in pregancy inserts to your down sleeping bag
> All the outdoorsy women who get pregnant can't fit into their waterproofs, softshells and down jackets.
Probably not so simple, because of the different types and lengths of zips - but even if you had to buy a new jacket, would be good if you knew you'd be able to wear it after pregnancy by zipping out the panel. Or by zipping in a bigger one, you could carry baby in in a sling under your coat, which is much easier than trying to wrestle a newborn into a snowsuit - google baby wearing coats - there are some, mainly Scandiandian or US, but none very technical.
And an even bigger gap - breastfeeding friendly base layers! Damn cold feeding baby up a hill in winter if you have to lift up all your layers I eventually found one NZ merino one, but there's basically nothing....
NZ also do zip in pregancy inserts to your down sleeping bag
In reply to Turdus torquatus:
Try Rohan and Travelsmith
> (In reply to r0x0r.wolfo)
>
> Mrs Turdus likes to walk and scramble in a skirt in the summer. Very convenient for all sorts of reasons. They don't seem to be available in quick drying and appealing technical fabrics though.
>
> Mrs Turdus likes to walk and scramble in a skirt in the summer. Very convenient for all sorts of reasons. They don't seem to be available in quick drying and appealing technical fabrics though.
Try Rohan and Travelsmith
In reply to Denni:
A built-in muff, basically.
Maybe the muff is due a comeback?
> Perfect for keeping hands toasty!
A built-in muff, basically.
Maybe the muff is due a comeback?
In reply to FreshSlate:
I'd like to know what happened to phase change material (PCM) that Rohan had a few years back...IIRC it was a waxy stuff like the material in handwarmers that crystallises.
A parachute silk 'shellsuit' Survival aids used to have them back in the 80's. packed very small, but very expensive!
Less harsh velcro. sure I had a phone charger tie-wrap that was more like press-studs than hooks! Gecko feet technology?
think bimetallic: tiny flaps that curl open when the temp rises? like fish scales. or vice versa, so the fabric fluffs up when it gets colder.
fabrics that generate electicity for various uses, whether mechanical (faraday coil) solar or static.
Wool: spiral/crimped fibres? fibre like corrugated cardboard?
And while we're getting weird, thixotrpics? did someone do a 'ballistic beanie' a while back? any scope for an electrically activated armour, cf LCD?
I'd like to know what happened to phase change material (PCM) that Rohan had a few years back...IIRC it was a waxy stuff like the material in handwarmers that crystallises.
A parachute silk 'shellsuit' Survival aids used to have them back in the 80's. packed very small, but very expensive!
Less harsh velcro. sure I had a phone charger tie-wrap that was more like press-studs than hooks! Gecko feet technology?
think bimetallic: tiny flaps that curl open when the temp rises? like fish scales. or vice versa, so the fabric fluffs up when it gets colder.
fabrics that generate electicity for various uses, whether mechanical (faraday coil) solar or static.
Wool: spiral/crimped fibres? fibre like corrugated cardboard?
And while we're getting weird, thixotrpics? did someone do a 'ballistic beanie' a while back? any scope for an electrically activated armour, cf LCD?
In reply to FreshSlate: An extra inch or two to the bottom of all jackets bar some of Rab's.
In reply to thin bob:
Zoot suits? (military ones, not the pimp outfits) I think you can still get them in pertex these days
> (In reply to r0x0r.wolfo)
>>
> A parachute silk 'shellsuit' Survival aids used to have them back in the 80's. packed very small, but very expensive!
> A parachute silk 'shellsuit' Survival aids used to have them back in the 80's. packed very small, but very expensive!
Zoot suits? (military ones, not the pimp outfits) I think you can still get them in pertex these days
In reply to chris_s:
Oooooo I quite like that (price tag is quite high, alpkit I need you). I do think it would real really nice to wear in the same way power stretch tights or RH's do (wrong but so right)
Oooooo I quite like that (price tag is quite high, alpkit I need you). I do think it would real really nice to wear in the same way power stretch tights or RH's do (wrong but so right)
In reply to FreshSlatef A made in the UK badge
In reply to dutybooty:
But they're such a faff to put on and take off. Can't stand them.
> (In reply to r0x0r.wolfo) Smocks. As in jackets that only unzip to chest level.
But they're such a faff to put on and take off. Can't stand them.
In reply to Robert Durran:
Yeah - they really mess up your hair, don't they?
> But they're such a faff to put on and take off. Can't stand them.
Yeah - they really mess up your hair, don't they?
In reply to Robert Durran:
Thats why I love this forum. I think they're less faff as you don't fiddle with a zip and you don't have to mess around finding arm holes, and for whatever reason you think they're more a faff.
Tis all just opinions. This is what makes it hard for gear designers.
> (In reply to dutybooty)
> [...]
>
> But they're such a faff to put on and take off. Can't stand them.
> [...]
>
> But they're such a faff to put on and take off. Can't stand them.
Thats why I love this forum. I think they're less faff as you don't fiddle with a zip and you don't have to mess around finding arm holes, and for whatever reason you think they're more a faff.
Tis all just opinions. This is what makes it hard for gear designers.
In reply to FreshSlate:
I was having a discussion at the crag on Friday about why hardshell down jackets don't exist, as a belay/static insulation layer for our wonderful, often wet climate.
I was having a discussion at the crag on Friday about why hardshell down jackets don't exist, as a belay/static insulation layer for our wonderful, often wet climate.
In reply to Carolyn:
I've seen a similar sleeping bag extension for pregnant women. The base layers seem a good idea. How about one of those breast feeding cover up things? Either way if it is Baltic, rather the missus than me!
My mate in Canada basically bought a kids down sleeping bag and had zips sewn on the side to match her DAS Parka and had a goretex membrane sewn onto the outside to waterproof it.
Takes the nipper out of the sledge, they don't use a pram!, and simply zips him onto her jacket, great piece of initiative.
Outdoor companies are definitely missing a trick here, charge an extra 20 odd quid for a zip in pregnancy insert. With our second on the way, my wife has once again commandeered all my jackets to fit over bump, not happy....
> (In reply to Denni)
>
> [...]
>
> Probably not so simple, because of the different types and lengths of zips - but even if you had to buy a new jacket, would be good if you knew you'd be able to wear it after pregnancy by zipping out the panel. Or by zipping in a bigger one, you could carry baby in in a sling under your coat, which is much easier than trying to wrestle a newborn into a snowsuit - google baby wearing coats - there are some, mainly Scandiandian or US, but none very technical.
>
> And an even bigger gap - breastfeeding friendly base layers! Damn cold feeding baby up a hill in winter if you have to lift up all your layers I eventually found one NZ merino one, but there's basically nothing....
>
> NZ also do zip in pregancy inserts to your down sleeping bag
>
> [...]
>
> Probably not so simple, because of the different types and lengths of zips - but even if you had to buy a new jacket, would be good if you knew you'd be able to wear it after pregnancy by zipping out the panel. Or by zipping in a bigger one, you could carry baby in in a sling under your coat, which is much easier than trying to wrestle a newborn into a snowsuit - google baby wearing coats - there are some, mainly Scandiandian or US, but none very technical.
>
> And an even bigger gap - breastfeeding friendly base layers! Damn cold feeding baby up a hill in winter if you have to lift up all your layers I eventually found one NZ merino one, but there's basically nothing....
>
> NZ also do zip in pregancy inserts to your down sleeping bag
I've seen a similar sleeping bag extension for pregnant women. The base layers seem a good idea. How about one of those breast feeding cover up things? Either way if it is Baltic, rather the missus than me!
My mate in Canada basically bought a kids down sleeping bag and had zips sewn on the side to match her DAS Parka and had a goretex membrane sewn onto the outside to waterproof it.
Takes the nipper out of the sledge, they don't use a pram!, and simply zips him onto her jacket, great piece of initiative.
Outdoor companies are definitely missing a trick here, charge an extra 20 odd quid for a zip in pregnancy insert. With our second on the way, my wife has once again commandeered all my jackets to fit over bump, not happy....
In reply to tehmarks:
Surely a waterproof primaloft jacket is just as good, plenty of which are available. Why would you need a down one?
> (In reply to r0x0r.wolfo)
>
> I was having a discussion at the crag on Friday about why hardshell down jackets don't exist, as a belay/static insulation layer for our wonderful, often wet climate.
>
> I was having a discussion at the crag on Friday about why hardshell down jackets don't exist, as a belay/static insulation layer for our wonderful, often wet climate.
Surely a waterproof primaloft jacket is just as good, plenty of which are available. Why would you need a down one?
In reply to tlm:
I don't have any hair.
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
>
> Yeah - they really mess up your hair, don't they?
>
> Yeah - they really mess up your hair, don't they?
I don't have any hair.
In reply to tehmarks:
I wouldn't buy one for the crag but PHD do these. I have one. Its brilliant.
> (In reply to r0x0r.wolfo)
>
> I was having a discussion at the crag on Friday about why hardshell down jackets don't exist, as a belay/static insulation layer for our wonderful, often wet climate.
>
> I was having a discussion at the crag on Friday about why hardshell down jackets don't exist, as a belay/static insulation layer for our wonderful, often wet climate.
I wouldn't buy one for the crag but PHD do these. I have one. Its brilliant.
In reply to FreshSlate:
A hood that actually moves with your head. Yet to find a hood that doesn't at least partially block my vision when I turn my head 90 degrees.
I'm thinking a hood with stretch panels at the neck possibly?
A hood that actually moves with your head. Yet to find a hood that doesn't at least partially block my vision when I turn my head 90 degrees.
I'm thinking a hood with stretch panels at the neck possibly?
In reply to Denni:
The only breastfeeding cover up things I've seen are designed to stop sensitive bystanders from having to see a quick flash of boob, rather than to provide any warmth for the mum The double layer tops work best for warmth IME, but these were the only vaguely technical ones I ever found
http://www.hideaways.co.nz/products.htm
That's by far the biggest gap in the market I've found, and I suspect it's not really that big all in all.
Women's belay gloves (or even hybrid leather palmed gloves) are particularly hard to come by, too - my hands aren't that small by women's standards (tend to take a medium in women's gloves), but "unisex" sizing only works if manufacturers make an XS, and even that's often too wide across the palm.
> I've seen a similar sleeping bag extension for pregnant women. The base layers seem a good idea. How about one of those breast feeding cover up things? Either way if it is Baltic, rather the missus than me!
The only breastfeeding cover up things I've seen are designed to stop sensitive bystanders from having to see a quick flash of boob, rather than to provide any warmth for the mum The double layer tops work best for warmth IME, but these were the only vaguely technical ones I ever found
http://www.hideaways.co.nz/products.htm
That's by far the biggest gap in the market I've found, and I suspect it's not really that big all in all.
Women's belay gloves (or even hybrid leather palmed gloves) are particularly hard to come by, too - my hands aren't that small by women's standards (tend to take a medium in women's gloves), but "unisex" sizing only works if manufacturers make an XS, and even that's often too wide across the palm.
In reply to Carolyn:
My wife found the problem with a bit of boob flashing, which is unfortunately inevitable regardless of how much you try to cover up, is the sometimes embarrasment of bystanders who by human nature, can't avert their eyes!
Anna has one of those wired giant muslin type things that create a wee cave and she really liks it. Very practicable for urban, not too sure how much for the hills.
http://www.johnlewis.com/bebe-au-lait-breastfeeding-cover-hot-dot/p23183821...
My wife found the problem with a bit of boob flashing, which is unfortunately inevitable regardless of how much you try to cover up, is the sometimes embarrasment of bystanders who by human nature, can't avert their eyes!
Anna has one of those wired giant muslin type things that create a wee cave and she really liks it. Very practicable for urban, not too sure how much for the hills.
http://www.johnlewis.com/bebe-au-lait-breastfeeding-cover-hot-dot/p23183821...
In reply to FreshSlate:
I'll endorse the pregnancy extensions for jackets on behalf of my wife.
I'll endorse the smock/short-zip jackets on behalf of me - I hate zips bunching up when you bend down/under harnesses/rucksack hipbelts, etc. I'd particularly like to see cycling waterproof smocks for this reason.
I can see a market for cycling waterproofs with a short, rear zip, perhaps.
I'll endorse the pregnancy extensions for jackets on behalf of my wife.
I'll endorse the smock/short-zip jackets on behalf of me - I hate zips bunching up when you bend down/under harnesses/rucksack hipbelts, etc. I'd particularly like to see cycling waterproof smocks for this reason.
I can see a market for cycling waterproofs with a short, rear zip, perhaps.
In reply to FreshSlate: I don't mind it myself - and a lot of people will find it frivolous - but many people (women...) "complain" about functional outdoor clothing looking "ugly" or "dorky". I don't think there is any great lack of fabric technology but someone who can make well cut clothing that isn't in (the wrong) lurid colours and Dwayne Dibley rustly fabrics with discrete zips and toggles that is *also* functional would make an absolute killing IMHO
In reply to iksander:
Usually, once a gear manufacturer starts pandering to shallow/fashion conscious people their funtionanlity starts going downhill (probably because they do indeed find that sadly there is more money in fashion/shallowness than in functionality).
> (In reply to r0x0r.wolfo) I don't mind it myself - and a lot of people will find it frivolous - but many people (women...) "complain" about functional outdoor clothing looking "ugly" or "dorky".
Usually, once a gear manufacturer starts pandering to shallow/fashion conscious people their funtionanlity starts going downhill (probably because they do indeed find that sadly there is more money in fashion/shallowness than in functionality).
In reply to iksander:
TBH, I'm not sure that's still true, apart from at the bottom end of the market. I'd say there's plenty of kit around from the more expensive brands that's both reasonably stylish and reasonably technical. Clearly, you'll never make a down suit designed for 8000m peaks that will also blend in at the office, but there's plenty of stuff that'll do the Lakeland fells and the pub equally well.
> (In reply to r0x0r.wolfo) I don't mind it myself - and a lot of people will find it frivolous - but many people (women...) "complain" about functional outdoor clothing looking "ugly" or "dorky".
TBH, I'm not sure that's still true, apart from at the bottom end of the market. I'd say there's plenty of kit around from the more expensive brands that's both reasonably stylish and reasonably technical. Clearly, you'll never make a down suit designed for 8000m peaks that will also blend in at the office, but there's plenty of stuff that'll do the Lakeland fells and the pub equally well.
In reply to FreshSlate: maybe a slim fit and a regular fit option for the same garment..
I say this because i had a patagonia shell top that fit perfectly(most pat tops are a square fit)but this one was a particulary slim fit and i have never had anything fit anywhere near as good which i think is due to manufacturers wanting to make their garments fit most peeps,even the socalled slim fit bulges out above a harness so a standard and"proper" slim fit would make sense to me.
I say this because i had a patagonia shell top that fit perfectly(most pat tops are a square fit)but this one was a particulary slim fit and i have never had anything fit anywhere near as good which i think is due to manufacturers wanting to make their garments fit most peeps,even the socalled slim fit bulges out above a harness so a standard and"proper" slim fit would make sense to me.
In reply to FreshSlate: In my opinion, pretty much all the clothing options you could want are available. The singular problem, as mentioned by several other posters, is that a suitable range of sizes is rarely available.
For example, I don't know any manufacturer who does a full range of leg lengths across their entire product range including softshells and hardshells. Manufacturers are also really poor at including XS sizes across products.
A second issue is that manufacturers (especially RAB currently) seem to now make profusion of products so that the chances of finding a shop stocking the one you want to try is remote. For the consumer, a smaller product range is easier to understand and easier for shops to stock making the whole process of buying new equipment easier.
After all there is no point in the companies producing the perfect item if it is not easy for us to get our hands on it.
For example, I don't know any manufacturer who does a full range of leg lengths across their entire product range including softshells and hardshells. Manufacturers are also really poor at including XS sizes across products.
A second issue is that manufacturers (especially RAB currently) seem to now make profusion of products so that the chances of finding a shop stocking the one you want to try is remote. For the consumer, a smaller product range is easier to understand and easier for shops to stock making the whole process of buying new equipment easier.
After all there is no point in the companies producing the perfect item if it is not easy for us to get our hands on it.
In reply to Carolyn: S'pose it depends on what your definitions of "stylish" and "expensive" are. Arc Teryx Veilance is the sort of thing I was thinking of, but at less than mortgage prices. A lot to like in Patagonia, ME, Rab, Mammut etc but they all look distinctly outdoorsy. Again, nothing wrong with that, but if you want to make money I'd agree that there's "more money in fashion/shallowness than in functionality". But there's even more money to be made in stuff that is fashionable (or at least not unfashionable) and functional.
The fashion industry does functionality poorly, the outdoors industry does fashion poorly - if someone make them both work at a mass market price (maybe like Rohan but with a bit more street cred) I think they'd be on to a winner.
The fashion industry does functionality poorly, the outdoors industry does fashion poorly - if someone make them both work at a mass market price (maybe like Rohan but with a bit more street cred) I think they'd be on to a winner.
In reply to tlm:
http://www.beyondclothing.com/
Hmmm... seems to be a rather content-free glossy website at the moment. It used to have real design/specification tools, but I can't find them immediately. Which kinda misses the point of a website...
A friend used their service a few years ago, and was very happy with the soft shell jacket he got made.
> Made to measure gear.
http://www.beyondclothing.com/
Hmmm... seems to be a rather content-free glossy website at the moment. It used to have real design/specification tools, but I can't find them immediately. Which kinda misses the point of a website...
A friend used their service a few years ago, and was very happy with the soft shell jacket he got made.
In reply to thin bob:
There were a couple that I can think of; 'Outlast', which was used for 'thermo-regulating' base layers
http://www.outlast.com/
and Schoeller's C-Change, a hard shell technology that was supposed to have pores that got bigger when it got hotter.
http://www.schoeller-textiles.com/en/technologies.html
I guess C-Change isn't a phase-change material.
> I'd like to know what happened to phase change material (PCM) that Rohan had a few years back
There were a couple that I can think of; 'Outlast', which was used for 'thermo-regulating' base layers
http://www.outlast.com/
and Schoeller's C-Change, a hard shell technology that was supposed to have pores that got bigger when it got hotter.
http://www.schoeller-textiles.com/en/technologies.html
I guess C-Change isn't a phase-change material.
In reply to Oliiver:
Well, here's a manufacturer who claim to have such a badge...
http://aclimatise.co.uk/
"Where possible the Aclimatise ® brand will be designed and manufactured in the UK from UK produced components"
No experience of their products.
> A made in the UK badge
Well, here's a manufacturer who claim to have such a badge...
http://aclimatise.co.uk/
"Where possible the Aclimatise ® brand will be designed and manufactured in the UK from UK produced components"
No experience of their products.
In reply to tehmarks:
They do exist, but one problem with them is that putting a 'breathable' waterproof layer outside your down insulation will pretty much stop the breathability, since water vapour transport is generally driven by temperature gradient. Since the membrane/coating is now on the cold side of the down, it doesn't breathe very well, so you get condensation inside the down.
Hence the use of vapour barrier liners for prolonged polar expeditions, to prevent perspiration (sensible & insensible) condensing & freezing in the down insulation, thus rendering it heavy & useless.
> I was having a discussion at the crag on Friday about why hardshell down jackets don't exist
They do exist, but one problem with them is that putting a 'breathable' waterproof layer outside your down insulation will pretty much stop the breathability, since water vapour transport is generally driven by temperature gradient. Since the membrane/coating is now on the cold side of the down, it doesn't breathe very well, so you get condensation inside the down.
Hence the use of vapour barrier liners for prolonged polar expeditions, to prevent perspiration (sensible & insensible) condensing & freezing in the down insulation, thus rendering it heavy & useless.
In reply to LastBoyScout:
I have an old Gore-tex cycling smock, made by Gore Cycle Wear.
However, as with all cycling waterproofs, you get about as wet from sweat as you would from rain... So it hasn't had much use.
Like some wetsuits? Hmmm... interesting thought. The Gore smock has a zip gusset, so is completely waterproof, even down the front.
> I'd particularly like to see cycling waterproof smocks for this reason.
I have an old Gore-tex cycling smock, made by Gore Cycle Wear.
However, as with all cycling waterproofs, you get about as wet from sweat as you would from rain... So it hasn't had much use.
> I can see a market for cycling waterproofs with a short, rear zip, perhaps.
Like some wetsuits? Hmmm... interesting thought. The Gore smock has a zip gusset, so is completely waterproof, even down the front.
In reply to iksander:
Gore-tex is actually used quite widely in some fashion (or non-outdoor clothing) brands; the Italians seem quite keen on it. Usually of the form of a drop-liner, though.
> The fashion industry does functionality poorly, the outdoors industry does fashion poorly
Gore-tex is actually used quite widely in some fashion (or non-outdoor clothing) brands; the Italians seem quite keen on it. Usually of the form of a drop-liner, though.
In reply to FreshSlate: Jacket to glove connection to keep out snow and insulated to keep the wrist warm. Something similar on trousers.
In reply to iksander:
Icebreaker are the brand that spring to mind for me - possibly more so in the women's than the men's, though. And more smart casual than formal office wear. Which is fine in Cumbria!
Rohan have brief bursts of inspiration, but seem to have mainly lost the plot again. And they don't fit, as despite hitting 40 and having 2 kids, middle aged spread isn't severe enough to fill their waistbands.
Icebreaker are the brand that spring to mind for me - possibly more so in the women's than the men's, though. And more smart casual than formal office wear. Which is fine in Cumbria!
Rohan have brief bursts of inspiration, but seem to have mainly lost the plot again. And they don't fit, as despite hitting 40 and having 2 kids, middle aged spread isn't severe enough to fill their waistbands.
In reply to FreshSlate:
Hi everyone, I am the person who is studying fashion and is interested in this.
I am thinking of using some phase change materials in baselayers and maybe tshirts as-well.
Also do you feel the women's outdoor gear could be improved?
The climbing trousers in particular look pretty grim from what I have seen. Having spoke to a few women at the club they have the opinion that leggings work just fine but if they could get technical ones that would be much better.
Is this an issue for any women out there?
Also a great idea about having custom made gear,I have heard about people who are sponsored by massive companies still not being able to get garments to fit them correctly. Is there any area in particular? I know someone has mentioned leg sizing and also that mens garments tend to be too loose fitting?
Thanks so much for your help already I really appreciate it.
Hi everyone, I am the person who is studying fashion and is interested in this.
I am thinking of using some phase change materials in baselayers and maybe tshirts as-well.
Also do you feel the women's outdoor gear could be improved?
The climbing trousers in particular look pretty grim from what I have seen. Having spoke to a few women at the club they have the opinion that leggings work just fine but if they could get technical ones that would be much better.
Is this an issue for any women out there?
Also a great idea about having custom made gear,I have heard about people who are sponsored by massive companies still not being able to get garments to fit them correctly. Is there any area in particular? I know someone has mentioned leg sizing and also that mens garments tend to be too loose fitting?
Thanks so much for your help already I really appreciate it.
In reply to FreshSlate:
I suspect you need to narrow down "climbing trousers" to a particular kind of climbing - what you might wear indoors or at a low level crag will have very different requirements to winter or alpine mountaineering....
The more technical stuff, there's probably rather less scope for fashion - eg leg shape is somewhat determined by practicalities (eg not catch on crampons). Whereas at the wall/crag, so long as you can move freely and (probably) see your feet, you can get away with most things.
Fit-wise, women's stuff is a nightmare, because we're all such different shapes. I have a small waist (at least compared to my big bum and thighs ), and so always find stuff has about 4 inches spare around the waist.
I suspect you need to narrow down "climbing trousers" to a particular kind of climbing - what you might wear indoors or at a low level crag will have very different requirements to winter or alpine mountaineering....
The more technical stuff, there's probably rather less scope for fashion - eg leg shape is somewhat determined by practicalities (eg not catch on crampons). Whereas at the wall/crag, so long as you can move freely and (probably) see your feet, you can get away with most things.
Fit-wise, women's stuff is a nightmare, because we're all such different shapes. I have a small waist (at least compared to my big bum and thighs ), and so always find stuff has about 4 inches spare around the waist.
In reply to Carolyn:
Hi, thanks for your comments.
In terms of technicality it would be a phase change fabric that allows for when you get warm and then cool again and responds accordingly, so that your temperature never feels to differ, this improves performance significantly.
I would be looking at a range of trousers/leggings, some more suited for the colder weather, as getting the amount of movement and the amount of warmth needed is a balancing act (this would work with the phase change).
Any more ideas are greatly appreciated
Hi, thanks for your comments.
In terms of technicality it would be a phase change fabric that allows for when you get warm and then cool again and responds accordingly, so that your temperature never feels to differ, this improves performance significantly.
I would be looking at a range of trousers/leggings, some more suited for the colder weather, as getting the amount of movement and the amount of warmth needed is a balancing act (this would work with the phase change).
Any more ideas are greatly appreciated
In reply to FreshSlate:
I'm sure the umbrella is in need of an update with modern materials and design.
Solve the problem caused by high winds, and you'd have a winner.
Rucksack mounted brolly?
A semi rigid canopy extending from a rucksack lid?
I'm sure the umbrella is in need of an update with modern materials and design.
Solve the problem caused by high winds, and you'd have a winner.
Rucksack mounted brolly?
A semi rigid canopy extending from a rucksack lid?
In reply to sammiKrogers: My background is marketing and advertising especially textiles. So I respond favourably to your thoughts. But then I think more personally. And superficially. What do I want from men's clothing? Colour. I am tired of being offered a choice of black or navy. Phase change textiles? Sound expensive. And I am wary of any claim. Such as keeps you dry from Goretex. Regardless of cloth, legwear design is generally poor. Popular Kiwi trousers for instance flap dreadfully, I can't understand why anyone buys them. I use leggings in milder weather, fleece tights in the winter. Obviously more serious legwear would be needed for serious mountaineering. Are you going to bring back breeches? And does anyone make 'serious' shorts in a technical fabric?
In reply to Fredt:
http://www.senzumbrellas.com/collection/home.php
> I'm sure the umbrella is in need of an update with modern materials and design.
>
> Solve the problem caused by high winds, and you'd have a winner.
>
> Solve the problem caused by high winds, and you'd have a winner.
http://www.senzumbrellas.com/collection/home.php
In reply to altirando:
Have you stepped into an outdoor shop lately? Or opened a magazine? You're hard pushed to find anything in black these days!
PCM's have been around since the 80's. I used to work for a textile manufacturer in the 1990's who developed acrylic PCM's, and have products from Altura and Hind that both react in this way. So not sure that it is anything new.
> (In reply to sammiKrogers) My background is marketing and advertising especially textiles. So I respond favourably to your thoughts. But then I think more personally. And superficially. What do I want from men's clothing? Colour. I am tired of being offered a choice of black or navy. Phase change textiles? Sound expensive. And I am wary of any claim.
Have you stepped into an outdoor shop lately? Or opened a magazine? You're hard pushed to find anything in black these days!
PCM's have been around since the 80's. I used to work for a textile manufacturer in the 1990's who developed acrylic PCM's, and have products from Altura and Hind that both react in this way. So not sure that it is anything new.
In reply to FreshSlate: longer material at the back;perhaps larger waist lengths,with adjustable toggle so you dont pop the zip after a big meal!
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