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Thinking of heading into the Northern Corries tomorrow, just wondering if anyone has any opinions about what it will be like after today's thaw?
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In reply to Robertgiddy:
Was considering it myself but decided to save the few days I can spare for climbing for better conditions. I think it will be cold enough tomorrow for routes to come in, but I think a lot of snow could get blown into the north faces too making some routes a bit of a swim. Also it looks to be pretty windy with some heavy snow showers so could end up being a proper Scottish day out. If my time wasn't an issue I'd head in hopeful of a climb. Will be interesting to see what it is like.
Was considering it myself but decided to save the few days I can spare for climbing for better conditions. I think it will be cold enough tomorrow for routes to come in, but I think a lot of snow could get blown into the north faces too making some routes a bit of a swim. Also it looks to be pretty windy with some heavy snow showers so could end up being a proper Scottish day out. If my time wasn't an issue I'd head in hopeful of a climb. Will be interesting to see what it is like.
In reply to baileyswalk:
Anybody know what time they opened the road at? We waited from 0650 till half 8ish and sacked it.
Anybody know what time they opened the road at? We waited from 0650 till half 8ish and sacked it.
In reply to mrbird:
Must have been sitting in the queue behind you!
Note to self: unless the road is clear and black don't try to climb in N.Gorms early doors.
Must have been sitting in the queue behind you!
Note to self: unless the road is clear and black don't try to climb in N.Gorms early doors.
In reply to george mc:
Its pretty disappointing. Keen to see exactly how much snow fell up the corries. There was a fair dump on us in that queue at the gate.
Its pretty disappointing. Keen to see exactly how much snow fell up the corries. There was a fair dump on us in that queue at the gate.
In reply to mrbird:
Looking up the hill yesterday a great deal had been wiped out by that warm spell. With the winds I reckon all the new stuff will have drifted a bit. I might get a look in tomorrow to see what's what. Still forecast is looking positive i.e. cold and snowy for the next wee while.
Looking up the hill yesterday a great deal had been wiped out by that warm spell. With the winds I reckon all the new stuff will have drifted a bit. I might get a look in tomorrow to see what's what. Still forecast is looking positive i.e. cold and snowy for the next wee while.
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In reply to Robertgiddy:
A mate of mine was up today and didn't climb due to black rock and unfrozen turf. There were however what he described as 'deluded individuals' climbing stuff.
A mate of mine was up today and didn't climb due to black rock and unfrozen turf. There were however what he described as 'deluded individuals' climbing stuff.
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In reply to Robertgiddy:
http://www.huntermountaineering.co.uk/2014/12/coire-an-t-sneachda-twin-ribs-dry/
a post from yesterday (Saturday) with some pictures if anyone is still interested...
http://www.huntermountaineering.co.uk/2014/12/coire-an-t-sneachda-twin-ribs-dry/
a post from yesterday (Saturday) with some pictures if anyone is still interested...
Post edited at 16:37
In reply to Blackmud:
I went into Lochain and it was rubbish. You didn't mess anything. I think that the gate opened a bit before 9 I think, but I didn't look at my watch.
James
I went into Lochain and it was rubbish. You didn't mess anything. I think that the gate opened a bit before 9 I think, but I didn't look at my watch.
James
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In reply to Robertgiddy:
Calm down folks, winter isn't here yet. it's his premature younger brother. now step away from the sharp pointy things!
Calm down folks, winter isn't here yet. it's his premature younger brother. now step away from the sharp pointy things!
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In reply to DaveHK:
There were indeed a few people trying to convince themselves they weren't ripping what's left of the turf. I saw people on Stirling Bomber, The Seam, Invernookie and what looked like an attempt on the grade 20 chockstone of the Fiacaill Couloir.
There were indeed a few people trying to convince themselves they weren't ripping what's left of the turf. I saw people on Stirling Bomber, The Seam, Invernookie and what looked like an attempt on the grade 20 chockstone of the Fiacaill Couloir.
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In reply to Cuthbert:
Crikey.
> and what looked like an attempt on the grade 20 chockstone of the Fiacaill Couloir.
Crikey.
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In reply to mrbird:
About 8:35.
> Anybody know what time they opened the road at? We waited from 0650 till half 8ish and sacked it.
About 8:35.
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In reply to Robertgiddy:
Walked into Lochain, practically everything was black. Took a quick look at Sidewinder, decided it was closer to VI than III then went home.
Walked into Lochain, practically everything was black. Took a quick look at Sidewinder, decided it was closer to VI than III then went home.
In reply to Cuthbert:
Yeah I saw that from Fiacaill Ridge, looked like a bit of a horror show at the top after the crux chock.
After all these tales of woe I feel motivated to say that I had a very pleasant day up and over Cairn Lochain, Lurchers, and down through the Chalamain gap. Thanks to the two friendly chaps who gave me a lift on the ski road. Not exactly a climbing day, but not a day wasted either!
Yeah I saw that from Fiacaill Ridge, looked like a bit of a horror show at the top after the crux chock.
After all these tales of woe I feel motivated to say that I had a very pleasant day up and over Cairn Lochain, Lurchers, and down through the Chalamain gap. Thanks to the two friendly chaps who gave me a lift on the ski road. Not exactly a climbing day, but not a day wasted either!
I went into Sneachda on Sat and Sunday.
Sat was black rock and Sunday was unfrozen turf and loose snow.
I can't believe that people were climbing on Sat.. Magic Crack and The Message were climbed with no snow visible whatsoever!!!
And we backed down from climbing Invernookie yesterday due to the unfrozen turf. other climbers were saying that it was a good day to pick a rock route. But to me it would still not be a winter climb...
Euge
Sat was black rock and Sunday was unfrozen turf and loose snow.
I can't believe that people were climbing on Sat.. Magic Crack and The Message were climbed with no snow visible whatsoever!!!
And we backed down from climbing Invernookie yesterday due to the unfrozen turf. other climbers were saying that it was a good day to pick a rock route. But to me it would still not be a winter climb...
Euge
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In reply to Euge:
The turf wasn't all bad! With a westerly wind we went for Mess of Pottage (NW facing) hoping to find the loose snow blown off and the turf frozen. 95% of the rock was black but the slabs and groves on the northern end were nice and icy and what turf we encountered was frozen. We climbed Opening Break which had a lovely drool of ice down the corner on the first pitch. Looking over to Fiacaill Buttress, which has been in the lee of the wind, it looked to have quite a bit of snow on it and I'm not surprised the turf wasn't frozen!
The turf wasn't all bad! With a westerly wind we went for Mess of Pottage (NW facing) hoping to find the loose snow blown off and the turf frozen. 95% of the rock was black but the slabs and groves on the northern end were nice and icy and what turf we encountered was frozen. We climbed Opening Break which had a lovely drool of ice down the corner on the first pitch. Looking over to Fiacaill Buttress, which has been in the lee of the wind, it looked to have quite a bit of snow on it and I'm not surprised the turf wasn't frozen!
In reply to Blackmud:
Sounds like I made the right decision. I`ll leave the wet-mud tooling to the pros.
Sounds like I made the right decision. I`ll leave the wet-mud tooling to the pros.
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In reply to Blackmud:
Me too. It was obvious that climbing was not going to be good. I was at the car park about 8am as I had driven down the night before. When the road did open there were about 40 people I guess, all in their early twenties by the looks of it, jangling their way into Coire an t-Sneachda. It reminded me of my own younger days when I wasn't experienced enough to work out that climbing was going to the the poor option.
To Mr Riley, nothing personal but everyone I was with (there were three of us) commented on how badly out of condition the Open Break looked. I don't mean to be critical but I am not sure I would tick that ascent in my guidebook as in winter condition.
Interesting to note you thought Fiacaill buttress had quite a bit of snow. I thought it has very little. Invernookie was predictably being trashed. Here's a picture of the buttress from about 1pm yesterday: https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/t31.0-8/10845612_101...
Me too. It was obvious that climbing was not going to be good. I was at the car park about 8am as I had driven down the night before. When the road did open there were about 40 people I guess, all in their early twenties by the looks of it, jangling their way into Coire an t-Sneachda. It reminded me of my own younger days when I wasn't experienced enough to work out that climbing was going to the the poor option.
To Mr Riley, nothing personal but everyone I was with (there were three of us) commented on how badly out of condition the Open Break looked. I don't mean to be critical but I am not sure I would tick that ascent in my guidebook as in winter condition.
Interesting to note you thought Fiacaill buttress had quite a bit of snow. I thought it has very little. Invernookie was predictably being trashed. Here's a picture of the buttress from about 1pm yesterday: https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/t31.0-8/10845612_101...
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In reply to Cuthbert:
No offense taken, but there was enough ice and white stuff about to tempt us on for a look and when we got to the corner where the turf begins we found it frozen and so continued. No argument that conditions weren't full fat but our interpretation was that it was suitably wintery. Fiacaill Buttress had more snow on it than other crags and I thought that might have insulated the turf there.
No offense taken, but there was enough ice and white stuff about to tempt us on for a look and when we got to the corner where the turf begins we found it frozen and so continued. No argument that conditions weren't full fat but our interpretation was that it was suitably wintery. Fiacaill Buttress had more snow on it than other crags and I thought that might have insulated the turf there.
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In reply to MrRiley: there's a picture on James coopers twitter of magic crack. I assumed it was a joke but it would appear not. Deluded if you think that's in condition!
In reply to MrRiley:
Beware, the winter climbing police are out! Much more hazardous than the average speed cameras on the A9.
Beware, the winter climbing police are out! Much more hazardous than the average speed cameras on the A9.
In reply to gavmac:
Well indeed. I didn't think there was much in but it's for others to make their own judgements. I certainly don't have the expertise or experience to decide what other people should and should not be climbing.
> Beware, the winter climbing police are out!
Well indeed. I didn't think there was much in but it's for others to make their own judgements. I certainly don't have the expertise or experience to decide what other people should and should not be climbing.
We walked in yesterday to have a look at Savage Slit. It was very black along with 90% of the routes. We wandered round to Western Route and that side of the buttress we found in condition. Turned out to be a great day and an ideal route.
Here is a picture my brother took with me and him on the 2nd belay.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10857839_10...
(It must be noted that I'm in my twenties so I might not have the mental capacity to make the correct call on condition)
Here is a picture my brother took with me and him on the 2nd belay.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10857839_10...
(It must be noted that I'm in my twenties so I might not have the mental capacity to make the correct call on condition)
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In reply to martinmckenna:
True but I think you get about an extra 20 years for the beard.
> (It must be noted that I'm in my twenties so I might not have the mental capacity to make the correct call on condition)
True but I think you get about an extra 20 years for the beard.
In reply to martinmckenna:
Lol, it's interesting to note what counts as in condition these days. That really is just marginal to me.
There is no doubt that most of the turf has been removed from popular routes by climbing in conditions like those. There was more when you were 4.
Lol, it's interesting to note what counts as in condition these days. That really is just marginal to me.
There is no doubt that most of the turf has been removed from popular routes by climbing in conditions like those. There was more when you were 4.
In reply to Cuthbert:
There's plenty of routes in the Northern Corries that have very little if any turf on them, I don't see a massive problem with climbing these routes in 'thin' condition. Unless you are claiming new routes, or climbing routes of a high standard then it really comes down to your subjective view of 'acceptable' conditions. The main worry for me is potentially damaging summer rock routes, but I think the best way to mitigate this damage is to be precise with your crampon and axe placements. The only way you could completely irradicate the possibility of damaging the rock is to wait for a 2 ft veneer of ice/hoar to cover every crack and bit of rock but then conditions like that are relatively rare and few people (or me atleast!) want to climb 'mixed' routes in that kind of condition.
edit - spelling
There's plenty of routes in the Northern Corries that have very little if any turf on them, I don't see a massive problem with climbing these routes in 'thin' condition. Unless you are claiming new routes, or climbing routes of a high standard then it really comes down to your subjective view of 'acceptable' conditions. The main worry for me is potentially damaging summer rock routes, but I think the best way to mitigate this damage is to be precise with your crampon and axe placements. The only way you could completely irradicate the possibility of damaging the rock is to wait for a 2 ft veneer of ice/hoar to cover every crack and bit of rock but then conditions like that are relatively rare and few people (or me atleast!) want to climb 'mixed' routes in that kind of condition.
edit - spelling
Post edited at 12:42
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In reply to CMcBain:
That's my point. They used to have turf but they don't now.
If damage is the worry then give up climbing. It's very carbon intensive.
That's my point. They used to have turf but they don't now.
If damage is the worry then give up climbing. It's very carbon intensive.
Post edited at 13:35
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In reply to Robertgiddy:
Believe it or not, Clova was actually pretty good on Sunday. Some turf lower down was poor but higher up most turf was good! And the top was plastered as a lot of spindrift accumulated there. Some photos here: http://graniteandice.blogspot.co.uk/2014/12/corrie-of-farchal-silver-thread...
Believe it or not, Clova was actually pretty good on Sunday. Some turf lower down was poor but higher up most turf was good! And the top was plastered as a lot of spindrift accumulated there. Some photos here: http://graniteandice.blogspot.co.uk/2014/12/corrie-of-farchal-silver-thread...
In reply to hwackerhage:
Gosh - far more excitement in Corie an Lochain than one might look (and decent looking conditions too) last friday http://www.moran-mountain.co.uk/blog/index.html#NeverMind !
Gosh - far more excitement in Corie an Lochain than one might look (and decent looking conditions too) last friday http://www.moran-mountain.co.uk/blog/index.html#NeverMind !
In reply to smithaldo:
Wind your neck in Phil.
Read the tweet properly, 2nd pitch of The Genie leading to The Magic Crack, no mention of climbing or even attempting The Magic Crack!!
By the time we got here it was black.
Usual UKC trolls....ffs
Wind your neck in Phil.
Read the tweet properly, 2nd pitch of The Genie leading to The Magic Crack, no mention of climbing or even attempting The Magic Crack!!
By the time we got here it was black.
Usual UKC trolls....ffs
In reply to Gene00:
To be fair, you posted the photo and didn't mention abbing off etc. It was obvious you were going to get some 'constructive' criticism looking at the photo as there is more snow and ice in my frostless freezer downstairs than is on that whole picture.
I wouldn't say it's trolling to comment on something you put on social media. Isn't that what it's for? (well one of the reasons)
To be fair, you posted the photo and didn't mention abbing off etc. It was obvious you were going to get some 'constructive' criticism looking at the photo as there is more snow and ice in my frostless freezer downstairs than is on that whole picture.
I wouldn't say it's trolling to comment on something you put on social media. Isn't that what it's for? (well one of the reasons)
In reply to Gene00:
To be honest I am surprised you even started up that. It's horrendously out of condition. *
* I am presuming you mean this picture - https://twitter.com/Genejc/status/541358901569286145/photo/1
To be honest I am surprised you even started up that. It's horrendously out of condition. *
* I am presuming you mean this picture - https://twitter.com/Genejc/status/541358901569286145/photo/1
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In reply to Cuthbert:
oh dear
> To be honest I am surprised you even started up that. It's horrendously out of condition. *
> * I am presuming you mean this picture - https://twitter.com/Genejc/status/541358901569286145/photo/1
oh dear
In reply to Cuthbert:
We set off around 7:30 the route was fine. By the time we reached the belay at the foot of the Crack it was a definite no. Hence the retreat.
You guys should spend your free time more productively instead of witch hunting.
We set off around 7:30 the route was fine. By the time we reached the belay at the foot of the Crack it was a definite no. Hence the retreat.
You guys should spend your free time more productively instead of witch hunting.
In reply to Gene00:
It's not a witch hunt. If you put a picture of a route out there for the world to see don't get upset if someone makes a comment you disagree with.
I was in the corrie and saw the conditions. Like I say, horrendously out of condition. It's climbing in these marginal conditions (it's very marginal if it goes out of condition whilst you are climbing) that has ripped off so much turf over the years.
It's not a witch hunt. If you put a picture of a route out there for the world to see don't get upset if someone makes a comment you disagree with.
I was in the corrie and saw the conditions. Like I say, horrendously out of condition. It's climbing in these marginal conditions (it's very marginal if it goes out of condition whilst you are climbing) that has ripped off so much turf over the years.
So can we extrapolate from all this that routes being logged in the winter database are in no way a reliable indicator of "what's in nick, and what the prospects are"? Thought so...
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In reply to Jamie B:
We should all fill out a survey, look at loads of pictures and say whether route is "in" or not. Then convert that into a database of users' conditions analysis, so that the conditions page can reflect the climber's opinion of "in nick" and give the likilhood that you would find it in conditions to your liking.
Also maybe include an "automated rage" button to save all the effort of typing the hate at each other when we disagree.
We should all fill out a survey, look at loads of pictures and say whether route is "in" or not. Then convert that into a database of users' conditions analysis, so that the conditions page can reflect the climber's opinion of "in nick" and give the likilhood that you would find it in conditions to your liking.
Also maybe include an "automated rage" button to save all the effort of typing the hate at each other when we disagree.
2
In reply to Jamie B:
All looked very much "in" yesterday, confirmed by the half inch of frost which accumulated on my face on the walk in, though you generally had to be less than 5 feet away to see it. Good kite flying weather too!
All looked very much "in" yesterday, confirmed by the half inch of frost which accumulated on my face on the walk in, though you generally had to be less than 5 feet away to see it. Good kite flying weather too!
In reply to Robertgiddy:
So has anyone been up in the last couple of days? I'm going on Sunday and I think the forecast means that it should have had at least a little time to consolidate...opinions?
Chris
So has anyone been up in the last couple of days? I'm going on Sunday and I think the forecast means that it should have had at least a little time to consolidate...opinions?
Chris
In reply to Chris Ellyatt:
Unstable slab and powdery rubbish over unfrozen turf and loose rock.
An unsubstantiated opinion, but an opinion nonetheless. If you see me expect a snowball fight. Or a slush fight, rather.
Unstable slab and powdery rubbish over unfrozen turf and loose rock.
An unsubstantiated opinion, but an opinion nonetheless. If you see me expect a snowball fight. Or a slush fight, rather.
In reply to Blackmud:
Fair enough. I'm thinking maybe just going up Fiacaill Ridge or something - something that won't get trashed...
Chris
Fair enough. I'm thinking maybe just going up Fiacaill Ridge or something - something that won't get trashed...
Chris
In reply to Chris Ellyatt:
Emphasis on unsubstantiated, with elements of uninformed, conjectural, etc.
I'll be going for a walk too, for the depressingly little that that information is worth.
Emphasis on unsubstantiated, with elements of uninformed, conjectural, etc.
I'll be going for a walk too, for the depressingly little that that information is worth.
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