UKC

So, finally the stars align and a full week off work and family commitments appears. Flights are this saturday-saturday so, weather permitting, I guess we can cram in 3 days climbing, 1 restday, 2 days climbing.

We´ve never done any scottish winter climbing but I´ll guess we would like to aim at things like Gemini, Shroud The Shield, the Minus Gullys and climbs a like. Is it a distant dream that any of these climbs can reform in decent/good shape til next week? I understand that the great gully ice climbs like Point Five probably will be ok.

If we´re going over we´ll probably camp at least a couple of nights. Is it ok to camp in the area around the CIC hut? Any water supply or do you have to melt snow? Is it easy to find decent space for a big TNF expedition 3-man tent? Will outdoor stores in Fort William be open on sunday morning?

So many question marks... Not to mention the weather! We´re pondering with North Norways Sördalen and its beastly ice lines as a back-up alternative. There the forecast looks good after some time with warm temps and rain.

Hmm. What to do?

In reply to DanielJ:

You could well be OK. From SAIS today: "Conditions today were a repeat of yesterday with the snow surface freezing hard overnight, then softening in the sun during the day. Despite high temperatures snow in the shade was remaining hard and frozen. Visibility was particularly good today.". If the snow's freezing overnight and staying that way, the ice should be staying OK in the shade.

Plenty camp around the CIC hut, but there are issues with waste (human and otherwise...). Keep it clean! Plenty of water - the hut is right by Allt a'Mhuillin which will have a good flow in it. The shops tend to open late on Sunday, for example Nevisport opens at something like 1100.

I'll certainly be heading out skiing as much as I can, but that is more achievable with a freeze / thaw cycle than fat ice. I expect plenty will be out climbing though - you'll find something in nick. Keep an eye on the blog: http://lochaberblog.sais.gov.uk/2016/03/repeat/

In reply to DanielJ:

If you allow for mountaineering (Any of the ridges for example) as back up almost certainly something worth doing.
Have fun!

In reply to James Jackson:

Thanks for the heads up. I also found this http://www.abacusmountainguides.com/blog/temperature-inversion
Somewhat disheartening. Maybe the Ben has to wait for another time. I dont mind doing ridges or whatever is available but if Norwegian 700m ice lines in perfect temps is the other option, the choice where to go is easy. (Its mostly ice we´re craving) We will decide on thursday where to fly, the forecasts will more or less decide.

Anyone on how long (more or less) it takes with consistent minus degrees and if theres a slight chance that ice routes around V,5-VI,6 will rebuild to decent shape?

In reply to DanielJ:

Scotland is great, but Ben Nevis or Sordalen, particularly for ice?! No contest! There has got to be other stuff still in OK conditions up that far as well. Friends were posting pics of the massive icefalls in Lyngen looking amazing just last week. I've climbed into april in Lyngen, although getting to the bottom of the falls can be tough work with softer deep snow.

In reply to DanielJ:

Ouch, that makes for sad reading - and the photos really show how stripped it's been in this thaw.

In reply to DanielJ:


The routes you're talking about; Shield, Gemini, The Shroud; are quite low on the mountain - at this time of year once stripped they'd be unlikely to reform. Some years they don't form at all.

You might have better luck with climbs higher on the mountain like Smiths or routes on Indicator Wall, but to be honest if your other option is 700m of reliable ice in Norway... it's a bit of a no-brainer

In reply to TobyA:

Yeah, I know. For long quality ice routes Sordalen and its surrounding areas must be one of Europes best venues.

However it would be fun with something different and the thinner/narrow ice lines on the Ben looks fantastic. At least last week... It would also be fun to try some well documented scottish mixed at modest grades. As you know in Norway things arent really documented and if so it reads something like M4/5, 300m, start in obvious dihedral, follow corners and sometimes cracks on face on either side, scarce protection. Not really territory I would like to begin with for first mixed lead...

Ive never been to Lyngen. What are these massive icefalls called? Are there any long routes at WI4/5+ up there?

In reply to planetmarshall:

Ok, thanks. That probably settles it, unless its a massive change in the forecast.
Round 2 Skredbekken (WI-5+)

In reply to DanielJ:


There's so many, so naming them all is gettin' quite a long list...


Define long... if 3-500m is long enough, then yes.

In reply to DanielJ:
You'd need some fresh snow and much colder temperatures for the mixed to come back in (just below freezing is ok but that's 'much colder' compared to now!).

In reply to HeMa:

Aha, sounds interesting. Can you point to which area they are in?

A quick trawl of Nick H and his guideblog of the area doesnt give away any falls over 300m, at least not at WI4 or higher. The only longer WI4+ route north of Spans- and Sördalen Im familiar with is Finnkona, the WI6 at Senja, which with all the approach climbing I would class as long.
Besides the last handful of days with warm temps its been really cold up north so I guess there is plenty of ice at most valleys some distance from the coast. For the adventureminded climber with a lot of time it must be heaven now. We probably wont have the time or will to do a lot of exploratory missions, we rather climb the classics first.

In reply to Misha:

Ok. Thanks. Thats the last nail in the coffin then (if that expression works in English?). Norway it is.

In reply to DanielJ:


All around...


Actually some of the lines above Lyngpollen are around 300 or a bit more, and in the WI range.

But the longer WI4/5 routes I know are in the valley from Skibotn towards Kilpisjärvi.
This is from somewhere around there... http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_PRxO6XgdLkk/TTVvrxlIUJI/AAAAAAAACgc/XCNdBPzjito/s...
http://www.rollomixed.com/2009/03/lagopus-hunter-ja-paskalaakso-pt1.html
http://www.rollomixed.com/2013/11/ramp-feber.html
http://www.rollomixed.com/2013/11/pakittaminen.html

here's some routes from Albert...
http://www.albertleichtfried.at/index.php?id=82&g2_itemId=10498

In reply to DanielJ:

Aye, Lyngen probably isn't the venue for true 'monster' lines, but the quality and reliability make up for that. Besides, coming from the UK, a 300m ice line is pretty darn monstrous compared to anything we have. Sordalen and Spansdalen have longer stuff that falls into the monster category (in terms of length and difficulty) but my gut feel is they loose a bit in reliability, or maybe we were just unlucky. Anywhere up there is pretty fantastic though.

In reply to James Jackson:

Nevisport is 9.30am on a Sunday. Avalanche forecasts and detailed weather forecasts from the met office put up each day as well.

In reply to DanielJ:

It's all in the guidebook these days although don't believe the FA details, there's even two routes in there that I climbed before the recorded FA in the guide! http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lyngen-Norway-Skiing-Climbing-Trekking/dp/B00H2JOYJ... Stupid UK price although probably not much cheaper in a Tromso climbing shop - Norway innit? :-/

In reply to TobyA:
There you go, I didnt even know there was a guide for Lyngen. I think we give it a miss this time and stick to Sördalen. There should be a handful of lines there to keep us preoccupied.

Hopefully we can pick up the guide somewhere and head for Lyngen and maybe Senja next year. I guess you easily could go to a new valley every winter for at least 20 years in this country of boundless climbing opportunities.

In reply to DanielJ: For fellow interested ice nerds. Sordalen was absolutely ace. Clearly was a good decision to bail on Ben Nevis. I´ve uploaded some photos, dont know when they will be approved.