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REVIEW: Guardian Water Purifier from MSR

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 UKC/UKH Gear 16 Jun 2016
MSR Guardian montage, 4 kbMade for the US military, MSR has now put their most advanced water purifier on the civilian market. But when not being used by special forces, is it any good for the sheep-poop-peppered moors of Bleaklow and Kinder?

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 pebbles 16 Jun 2016
In reply to UKC/UKH Gear:

for one glorious moment I assumed the Guardian Water Purifier would be designed by Yotam Ottolenghi from recycled sheep turds, and would infuse your purified moorland water with the flavour of Star Anise and Sweet Labneh
Rekotin 16 Jun 2016
In reply to UKC/UKH Gear:

Been using this for a few months in prep for a trip in Nepal later in the year. Been super-happy about it! The cleaning tabs always leave a crappy taste to the water, but this one has eliminated any odour or taste so far, regardless of where the water is from. Also, the design allows you to literally suck the last drops from a tiny puddle if need be, so you don't necessarily even need a lake or stream nearby to manage.

One word of warning though, you want to treat the red cap end of the Guardian with care, as that bit can't be contaminated at all. So when Toby unscrews the red cap and lets it fall on the ground, it can theoretically be contaminated, which then gets transferred into the part where you screw in your Nalgene. This is probably the only bit in the whole Guardian you have to be aware of when using it.

Also, it is pretty cheap in comparison to the cleaning tabs if you compare it to how much it cleans and filters until the filter needs to be changed.
In reply to UKC/UKH Gear:

I wonder why its so expensive Toby? I had one of the MSR Miniworks (I think) and it cost about £90 - so massive jump up for comparible (but newer) model. On a real world trip I found the MSR a real drag to use compared with the Katadyn filter my friend had on the same trip which was much quicker, lighter and performed flawlessly for 3 weeks filtering water daily in the Sierra's (US)
 fullastern 16 Jun 2016
In reply to UKC/UKH Gear:

Can anyone explain why this, at £300, is any better than this: https://www.watertogo.eu at £25?

They claim it filters viruses too, it's much lighter, much smaller etc.

Only thing I'm not sure about is whether it's safe to use with chemical contamination like run-off from farms, but then the same concern would apply with the MSR I think. Would love to be corrected on this.
 TobyA 16 Jun 2016
In reply to Rekotin:


> One word of warning though, you want to treat the red cap end of the Guardian with care, as that bit can't be contaminated at all. So when Toby unscrews the red cap and lets it fall on the ground, it can theoretically be contaminated, which then gets transferred into the part where you screw in your Nalgene. This is probably the only bit in the whole Guardian you have to be aware of when using it.

It's funny that you noticed that because that is exactly what I thought when I did it, but I couldn't be bothered to 'fake' a whole second take of filming it in use! But it is a very fair point - it did just fall onto the ground there, not really very dirty, but of course if you dropped it into dirty water your could cross contaminate.

Having said that keeping the Guardian clean is, in comparison to scrubbing clean a ceramic filter in the field, a total breeze in terms of not cross contaminating.
 TobyA 16 Jun 2016
In reply to Simonfarfaraway:

> I wonder why its so expensive Toby? I had one of the MSR Miniworks (I think) and it cost about £90 - so massive jump up for comparible (but newer) model.

Just checked on the MSR's website, the miniworks won't take out viruses. So I guess a cheaper but less effective technology?

> On a real world trip I found the MSR a real drag to use compared with the Katadyn filter my friend had on the same trip which was much quicker, lighter and performed flawlessly for 3 weeks filtering water daily in the Sierra's (US)

Did the MSR one clog? I guess this model has the self flushing facility to avoid that happening.

But I agree - it is a lot of money. Not the sort of kit you buy on the off chance.

 Indy 17 Jun 2016
In reply to Jonathan:
> Can anyone explain why this, at £300, is any better than this: https://www.watertogo.eu at £25?

You need to buy a £10 filter every 200ltrs. The MSR is good for 10,000ltrs plus. You do the math!
Post edited at 08:32
 Indy 17 Jun 2016
In reply to Rekotin:

Wonder how it stands up to the Katadyn Pocket.
 fullastern 17 Jun 2016
In reply to Indy:

Ok, so there's a financial advantage after about the 5700th litre, which at 2 litres per day, 1 day per week works out at 55 years. So, unless you are going to use this every day (perhaps for extended expeditions with multiple users), then it's pretty long term thinking! This is all assuming you don't break or lose it of course.

I suppose my real question is are there any advantages of this in terms of filtration that the watertogo bottle doesn't provide?
 wilkesley 17 Jun 2016
In reply to UKC/UKH Gear:
The Travel Tap: http://www.drinksafe-systems.co.uk/technology.php does all that and only costs about £30.
Post edited at 19:16
 Indy 17 Jun 2016
In reply to Jonathan:

> Ok, so there's a financial advantage after about the 5700th litre, which at 2 litres per day, 1 day per week works out at 55 years.

Oh, I'm sorry I didn't realise you were a boy scout/girl guide.... as you were :|
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 TobyA 17 Jun 2016
In reply to wilkesley:
Reading the description, it states that you can't use it with dirty, muddy or silty water. The Guardian can because of the self flushing facility.

Like I said in the review, I don't think that many people need everything that the Guardian can do, but not all filter systems are the same so saying they are isn't really fair.
 wilkesley 17 Jun 2016
In reply to TobyA:

I just use my Buff to filter out silty /peaty crap before putting it in the TravelTap if I have to. Even if I fscked up a TravelTap with crud, I could buy 10 for the price of The Guardian.
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 TobyA 18 Jun 2016
In reply to wilkesley:

> I just use my Buff to filter out silty /peaty crap before putting it in the TravelTap if I have to.

Sure, I used to have one of those specific filtration bags that you had to put water through before using my old filter also - Mill bags? Something like that anyway - probably old military kit. And like I said in the review, stick a chlorine tab in your water and it will clean it also. There are many ways to skin a cat, but the point still remains that other filters can't do all the things that the Guardian does and presumably that's why it costs quite a lot.

> Even if I fscked up a TravelTap with crud, I could buy 10 for the price of The Guardian.

If you were off to say the Indian Himalayas would you take a spare one with you?

For anyone who actually reads the review, they will see I spend quite a lot of time considering "the big question is whether you (or I) need a water filter at all?" No one is saying anyone should buy this purifier, or that other systems don't work or are not lighter and cheaper - but there are other advantages to the Guardian for people willing to invest in one.

 wilkesley 18 Jun 2016
In reply to TobyA:

In reply to TobyA:

Just re-read your review. Apart from the back flushing feature, the Guardian doesn't seem to do anything that the Travel Tap doesn't do. In fact the TT claims to remove several chemical pollutants, which at least in your review, the Guardian doesn't. What other additional features do you think it has?

The last time I went to the Himalaya (30 years ago), I just took Iodine. If I went again I would probably take at least one Travel Tap and possibly more.
 TobyA 19 Jun 2016
In reply to wilkesley:

This feels a bit like you want one of the early Naughties internet-fights-to-the-death type threads https://xkcd.com/386/ but I haven't used the travel tap, so I can't review it in comparison.

So again, the Travel Tap looks great - it might well be a better solution for a solo backpacker than the Guardian being a lot lighter besides anything else. Indeed if I have a go at the Pennine Way this summer, I might well invest in one.

But as you asked, firstly the tube on the Guardian means you can put it into tiny or very shallow water sources that you can't fill a bottle from. It also has the prefilter on the tube and the backwash meaning it could deal with muddy water that Travel Tap says you need to avoid (or prefilter in some way). Having watched a couple of YouTube videos of people reviewing the TT, I also thought to be super careful you would probably want some other bottle to scoop water up with and decant into the travel tap bottle. The vids of people sticking the bottle into a lake, putting the filter cap on and immediately drinking from it strikes me as a good chance of cross contamination, with water on the outside of the bottle running down to the cap which you drink from. I would have thought at least drying it off with a towel would be a good idea? The reviews on Backpackinglight.co.uk are mainly good but someone mentioned theirs failed rather quickly (blocked up maybe?) and needed replacing. Other people note the problem with the bottles leaking around the cap - again not what you want if the water is really dodgy. MSR claim the Guardian is freeze resistant, which I believe is a big problem on activated carbon filters like the TT. One of the YouTube reviews also mentions it being very slow (he was filling another water bottle from the TT), the Guardian purifies water rather quickly.

So some advantages to the Guardian, some disadvantages - cost not being the least of them. I hope maybe in a year or so MSR will find a way of using the same filter technology but in a unit half the weight and size of the Guardian - a lower price would be good too! That could then be a great filter for solo backpackers, even if the flow rate is half that of the current Guardian.
 Lh88 19 Jun 2016
In reply to wilkesley:
To produce a reliable / long-lived filter and thoroughly test this is difficult/ expensive and it's important to be sceptical of the cheap ones. It's easy to make a claim about filtering 100% of everything based on poor testing in a laboratory environment, which may not hold true during long term use in the field.

I've just have a look at the tech page of the Travel Tap website which is worrying. There are a number of errors and bits without any scientific basis (e.g. "we've recently introduced covalent bond technology..").

For me, trust in a reputable company, their testing and manufacturing process is key with filtration systems. This is where MSR really shine, especially for longer trips. Another really good option is a UV pen. This is great for low-volume use or the odd emergency-type situation and much cheaper (although requires batteries).


(Medic living in rural Malawi, and using an MSR filter daily)
Post edited at 18:50
 wilkesley 19 Jun 2016
In reply to TobyA:

The TT isn't perfect. My version has the filter at the bottom, so water running down the outside is less of a problem, as you hold the bottle upright. Anyway not taking steps to avoid cross-contamination is simply Darwinism in action

The TT website does have some errors and was probably mostly written by a marketing droid. However, they do claim to have had their system tested by the Environment Agency labs. The fact that they have been around for 35 years and nobody seems to have sued them because their system failed probably means that it is reliable in most circumstances.

If I needed to filter water every day for a year, the Guardian would be a better system. For most people on a shortish trip the TT should be fine.

Despite using Iodine and being careful I managed to catch Giardia three times on my Himalayan trips!

(Former microbiologist and virologist).
 TobyA 19 Jun 2016
In reply to wilkesley:

> (Former microbiologist and virologist).

You should be able to give a good opinion on the following then! My mate and climbing partner who is a proper scientist with a white coat and his own minions (PhD students) said when we were talking about the filter that viruses live on hosts - often bacteria - and don't survive long in water without them. Therefore he felt that in filtering out bacteria (much bigger) you would probably get the viruses too.

Does that sound right? I could well have misunderstood Tony's point - but I think that is what he meant.
 TobyA 19 Jun 2016
In reply to Lh88:

> (Medic living in rural Malawi, and using an MSR filter daily)

Wow - cool! (Or hot more probably).
I guess the filtration technology for the TT is made by a separate company, and it does seem that they are used by lots of reputable organisations (Red Cross in Haiti etc.) who would probably have high standards for the filtering systems they use, but I agree - the technology page on that website doesn't explain what technology is used in the clear manner that MSR has done.

 wilkesley 20 Jun 2016
In reply to TobyA:

Not entirely true. Viruses can only replicate by infecting a host cell. They basically use the cell's biochemistry to replicate. There are viruses that can infect bacteria, plant cells and animal cells. They are normally pretty specific. For example the tobacco mosaic virus can't infect an animal cell. However, some animal viruses can infect several different animal species e.g. Ebola and HIV.

At one time the live attenuated polio strain grown as a vaccine was produced in African Green Monkey calls. These were then found to contain a virus called SV40, which caused tumours in several animal species. Luckily it seems that none of the several million people immunised with those batches of vaccine developed cancers related to SV40.

Viruses are usually sensitive to heat, as are most pathogenic bacteria. Simply boiling water will kill them off. Some viruses can survive for extended periods in water e.g. hepatitis. A sort of edge case is the Bacillus Cereus bacterium. This is often found in rice. It produces a toxin which is quite heat resistant and causes intestinal upsets. It's often a problem if you eat rice that was contaminated with the bacteria that has been re-heated. However, I don't think that even that survives boiling.

So the safest option is to boil your water. Of course that doesn't protect you from getting infections via plates that were washed in contaminated water, or things like fresh vegetables.
 Toerag 20 Jun 2016
In reply to wilkesley:
> A sort of edge case is the Bacillus Cereus bacterium. This is often found in rice. It produces a toxin which is quite heat resistant and causes intestinal upsets. It's often a problem if you eat rice that was contaminated with the bacteria that has been re-heated. However, I don't think that even that survives boiling.

The issue with that particular situation is that the toxin isn't easily destroyed - although you could leave your special fried rice in the fridge for 3 days and kill the bacteria by reheating it properly before eating it, the toxins created during those 3 days aren't destroyed and you get ill. Most 'normal' stomach upsetting bugs only cause upset by being alive inside you.
* I regularly eat leftover SFR the day after I buy it, but it goes in the fridge straight after I've eaten the first night to slow down the bacterial growth which creates the toxins.
Post edited at 12:52
 Timmd 21 Jun 2016
In reply to wilkesley:
> Despite using Iodine and being careful I managed to catch Giardia three times on my Himalayan trips!

> (Former microbiologist and virologist).

Did it happen in this order - too?
Post edited at 14:19
 wilkesley 21 Jun 2016
In reply to Timmd:

> Did it happen in this order - too?

Once when I was a microbiologist/virologist and twice when I had just retired At least the rotten egg burps and farts made it easy to diagnose.

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