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When I first started climbing I was very much grade orientated, I had all this indoor wall strength, an environment where the next grade is the next goal. I soon realized that strength counted for nothing on grit, but it was still all about getting established at HVS. Move on three years and I still want to push my grade more so than ever but no longer for the grades sake, I want to improve because I want/ed to climb; the Dervish, Pull my Daisy, Suspense, Browns Eliminate, The Sloth and Archangel. All these striking lines with so much history behind them and oozing quality with every move.
Has anyone else found that the climbing for grades mindset melted away as they became more immersed in climbing culture and as there knowledge of famous routes grew and whetted their appetite. If so, well know or not what were/are those routes?
Post edited at 15:27
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In reply to Tigger:
Not sure it ever was always about grades, and isn't now. Sometimes it's grades, sometimes it's routes. One leads to changing ambitions in the other. And vice versa.
Rostrum in Yosemite is an ambition, and a longer term one is the West Face of El Cap. Both got 5.11c crux pitches I think, so nails hard.
Immediate goals are to tick an 8a in Margalef in Feb/March. La Perdonavitas or Doctor Feelgood I suspect.
> Has anyone else found that the climbing for grades mindset melted away as they became more immersed in climbing culture
Not sure it ever was always about grades, and isn't now. Sometimes it's grades, sometimes it's routes. One leads to changing ambitions in the other. And vice versa.
> If so, well know or not what were/are those routes?
Rostrum in Yosemite is an ambition, and a longer term one is the West Face of El Cap. Both got 5.11c crux pitches I think, so nails hard.
Immediate goals are to tick an 8a in Margalef in Feb/March. La Perdonavitas or Doctor Feelgood I suspect.
Post edited at 15:38
2
In reply to Tigger:
away:
Lotus Flower Tower (SE face) (E3 5c)
Regular North Face Route ("The Rostrum") (5.11c)
Astroman (5.11c)
Romantic warrior (5.12b)
Probably pies in the sky but still.
Here. Too many to link both summer and winter(which I'll not list here- summer thread) although this two single pitch routes always attracted and I'll get them done in some sort of style (O/S would be awesome but unlikely)
London Wall (E5 6a)
Burning Desire (E5 6b)
Mostly to do with the lines and location closely second. History is important but defo not the main attraction.
away:
Lotus Flower Tower (SE face) (E3 5c)
Regular North Face Route ("The Rostrum") (5.11c)
Astroman (5.11c)
Romantic warrior (5.12b)
Probably pies in the sky but still.
Here. Too many to link both summer and winter(which I'll not list here- summer thread) although this two single pitch routes always attracted and I'll get them done in some sort of style (O/S would be awesome but unlikely)
London Wall (E5 6a)
Burning Desire (E5 6b)
Mostly to do with the lines and location closely second. History is important but defo not the main attraction.
1
In reply to Tigger:
For the last couple of years I've been busier than I'd like, and often found keeping fit for climbing quite challenging while working overseas a fair bit away from training options. But during this time I also cleaned and bolted a new crag just 10 minutes walk from Chez Arran - https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1F8UGEPAWPHcjJpWWtlWWVjV1k/view?usp=shari... Staying fit enough to redpoint the harder routes on the crag during relatively brief stays at home before I publicised it more widely was a definite incentive. Many of the routes - particularly the harder ones - are ace.
For the last couple of years I've been busier than I'd like, and often found keeping fit for climbing quite challenging while working overseas a fair bit away from training options. But during this time I also cleaned and bolted a new crag just 10 minutes walk from Chez Arran - https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1F8UGEPAWPHcjJpWWtlWWVjV1k/view?usp=shari... Staying fit enough to redpoint the harder routes on the crag during relatively brief stays at home before I publicised it more widely was a definite incentive. Many of the routes - particularly the harder ones - are ace.
2
In reply to Tigger:
Once my dream route was Pulpit Crack (HVS 5a) at Loudon Hill. I went to Uni, got a bit stronger and climbed it with ease but to this day I can remember the joy of topping out. Next up was Bridge Over Troubled Water (E4 5c), lead onsight with a brush and topped with soiled underwear. Trad clearly wasn't my thing and I've never figured out Sport so it was bouldering. First visit to The Plantation and I was hooked on The Pebble. First time I completed The Full Circuit (f7B) was on a glorious pre-work session above the clouds. This kind of was the end of the grit affair as I had discovered limestone. I'm far too heavy to be any good at it but there were no midges. After a summer on muddy mats at Rubicon with endless traversing I went for a walk with a relative and happened upon Raven Tor (yes I know, quite famous and all that). Powerband (f7C) was discovered and within weeks I had fallen repeatedly off the last move. That was 20 years ago and I never did get it. Maybe I should try again.
Once my dream route was Pulpit Crack (HVS 5a) at Loudon Hill. I went to Uni, got a bit stronger and climbed it with ease but to this day I can remember the joy of topping out. Next up was Bridge Over Troubled Water (E4 5c), lead onsight with a brush and topped with soiled underwear. Trad clearly wasn't my thing and I've never figured out Sport so it was bouldering. First visit to The Plantation and I was hooked on The Pebble. First time I completed The Full Circuit (f7B) was on a glorious pre-work session above the clouds. This kind of was the end of the grit affair as I had discovered limestone. I'm far too heavy to be any good at it but there were no midges. After a summer on muddy mats at Rubicon with endless traversing I went for a walk with a relative and happened upon Raven Tor (yes I know, quite famous and all that). Powerband (f7C) was discovered and within weeks I had fallen repeatedly off the last move. That was 20 years ago and I never did get it. Maybe I should try again.
3
In reply to Tigger:
I'm generally much more motivated by specific routes more than anything else. The only problem is that if I've built up a route for years, I normally fall off.
I'm generally much more motivated by specific routes more than anything else. The only problem is that if I've built up a route for years, I normally fall off.
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In reply to Toccata:
Loudon Hill was my local crag as a youth, Pulpit crack was my first VS. The Edge fixated me there and it took a wee while to summon up the courage to lead it. Its still one of my great climbing memories.
Loudon Hill was my local crag as a youth, Pulpit crack was my first VS. The Edge fixated me there and it took a wee while to summon up the courage to lead it. Its still one of my great climbing memories.
1
In reply to Tigger:
I agree with Erick on London wall and burning desire, both are routes I'd love to tick one day and I get seriously motivated to climb harder for both of them.
Beyond that I'd like to do some of the hard routes on the central gully wall of creag an dubh loch like the naked ape, or a route on the central slabs of the shelterstone, it would be cool to do Thor.
On the more mental end of the "hard" spectrum. Having done some remote multipitch soloing this summer I'd like to progress this a bit further and solo the Needle on shelterstone. I began climbing properly with an ascent of the needle and it always seemed like a cool way for me to prove to myself how much i've progressed (if I do it)
I agree with Erick on London wall and burning desire, both are routes I'd love to tick one day and I get seriously motivated to climb harder for both of them.
Beyond that I'd like to do some of the hard routes on the central gully wall of creag an dubh loch like the naked ape, or a route on the central slabs of the shelterstone, it would be cool to do Thor.
On the more mental end of the "hard" spectrum. Having done some remote multipitch soloing this summer I'd like to progress this a bit further and solo the Needle on shelterstone. I began climbing properly with an ascent of the needle and it always seemed like a cool way for me to prove to myself how much i've progressed (if I do it)
In reply to Tigger:
For me it is not about grades but about great lines/good routes. I am always trying to improve my grade because there are awesome routes that are too hard for me, eg. Zeppelin at El Chorro, Thorn at Beeston, Left Unconquerable at Stanage. The list goes on. Unfortunately the more I climb the more I see that I want to climb, and I am getting older and the grades are not easy to get improvement on, but I will keep trying. There are only several thousand routes out there that I want to do.
For me it is not about grades but about great lines/good routes. I am always trying to improve my grade because there are awesome routes that are too hard for me, eg. Zeppelin at El Chorro, Thorn at Beeston, Left Unconquerable at Stanage. The list goes on. Unfortunately the more I climb the more I see that I want to climb, and I am getting older and the grades are not easy to get improvement on, but I will keep trying. There are only several thousand routes out there that I want to do.
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In reply to Tigger:
With Sport it's just about all about the grade and nothing wrong with that..nature of the beast. With trad there is an element of grade seeking; you want to improve and with improvement you get more routes to go at.
With Sport it's just about all about the grade and nothing wrong with that..nature of the beast. With trad there is an element of grade seeking; you want to improve and with improvement you get more routes to go at.
1
1
In reply to Bulls Crack:
Sport isn't always about the grade. There are lots of classic routes that inspire you to train. New Dawn, Raindogs, Statement of Youth, The Thumb, Super Duper DuPont, Axel Attack and Herbie are all as good as any trad route.
Andy F
> With Sport it's just about all about the grade and nothing wrong with that..nature of the beast. With trad there is an element of grade seeking; you want to improve and with improvement you get more routes to go at.
Sport isn't always about the grade. There are lots of classic routes that inspire you to train. New Dawn, Raindogs, Statement of Youth, The Thumb, Super Duper DuPont, Axel Attack and Herbie are all as good as any trad route.
Andy F
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1
In reply to andy farnell:
I've got to agree with Andy. The first time I went to Malham it was to climb trad on the right wing, and I could barely manage to dog the sport warm ups. However I saw someone red-pointing the Groove right through the centre of the crag and that was a real inspiration.
I've got to agree with Andy. The first time I went to Malham it was to climb trad on the right wing, and I could barely manage to dog the sport warm ups. However I saw someone red-pointing the Groove right through the centre of the crag and that was a real inspiration.
Post edited at 21:29
2
In reply to Tigger:
A few years ago I tried Pleasuredome at Stennis and got spanked. Forgot my Prusiks, had to be lowered a rope, jugged out. All took forever, but made me realise I'd got to a level of climbing E2ish without being that strong and by relying on a good head to get through run-out sections. Pleasuredome made me realise I simply wasn't fit enough to do some harder trad routes. After a summer of sport climbing I went back and vividly remember the satisfaction of resting on the big undercut before the crux moves, where a year earlier I'd been pumped out of my nut, this time feeling fine. Plenty of other E3's went down that trip, in hindsight probably the best I've ever climbed. Now of course I've run up against the same brick wall of fitness/power, so a year of sport climbing and bouldering is in the offing to try and make some E5's somewhat accessible...we shall see!
A few years ago I tried Pleasuredome at Stennis and got spanked. Forgot my Prusiks, had to be lowered a rope, jugged out. All took forever, but made me realise I'd got to a level of climbing E2ish without being that strong and by relying on a good head to get through run-out sections. Pleasuredome made me realise I simply wasn't fit enough to do some harder trad routes. After a summer of sport climbing I went back and vividly remember the satisfaction of resting on the big undercut before the crux moves, where a year earlier I'd been pumped out of my nut, this time feeling fine. Plenty of other E3's went down that trip, in hindsight probably the best I've ever climbed. Now of course I've run up against the same brick wall of fitness/power, so a year of sport climbing and bouldering is in the offing to try and make some E5's somewhat accessible...we shall see!
2
In reply to andy farnell:
Absolutely - I would love to do Fiesta de los Biceps (La Visera) (7a), as well as plenty of routes that I've tried but not finished, like Little Brown Baby (7a+) and Ya os vale (7c) that I would love to be able to go back to and finish easily.
Absolutely - I would love to do Fiesta de los Biceps (La Visera) (7a), as well as plenty of routes that I've tried but not finished, like Little Brown Baby (7a+) and Ya os vale (7c) that I would love to be able to go back to and finish easily.
2
In reply to Tigger:
It's not just routes that inspire me to climb better. I remember when Extreme Rock was published (feb 87?), i read it ovet and over again, waiting for my turn to relive the article. The same with Cold Climbs.
And the routes that are still there waiting to be done? Saxon on Scafell and Darklands in the Blackhole in Little Langdale. My mate Kev Stepens took an awesome photo of a friend climbing while i belayed. I thought it would be too hard for me, so when Al Phizacklea appeared, he seconded it instead. I've always regretted that decision. Maybe i just need to 'man up' and lead the b***d. It's stunning rock architecture.
It's not just routes that inspire me to climb better. I remember when Extreme Rock was published (feb 87?), i read it ovet and over again, waiting for my turn to relive the article. The same with Cold Climbs.
And the routes that are still there waiting to be done? Saxon on Scafell and Darklands in the Blackhole in Little Langdale. My mate Kev Stepens took an awesome photo of a friend climbing while i belayed. I thought it would be too hard for me, so when Al Phizacklea appeared, he seconded it instead. I've always regretted that decision. Maybe i just need to 'man up' and lead the b***d. It's stunning rock architecture.
1
In reply to mikenty:
The groove is my ambition for the next 3/4 years that I'm planning to be in Leeds. It's an impressive line and something that will force me to train sensibly. The grade definitely has something to do with it, but more because it looks awesome and I'll have something to aim for.
It'll probably be two years before I even attempt to pull on past the end of something stupid, but it'll be a cool moment when I decide I might be strong enough to start making some links!
> I've got to agree with Andy. The first time I went to Malham it was to climb trad on the right wing, and I could barely manage to dog the sport warm ups. However I saw someone red-pointing the Groove right through the centre of the crag and that was a real inspiration.
The groove is my ambition for the next 3/4 years that I'm planning to be in Leeds. It's an impressive line and something that will force me to train sensibly. The grade definitely has something to do with it, but more because it looks awesome and I'll have something to aim for.
It'll probably be two years before I even attempt to pull on past the end of something stupid, but it'll be a cool moment when I decide I might be strong enough to start making some links!
1
In reply to James Malloch:
The groove always looks wet to me .
Supercool though, now we are talking a line. Surely the best looking line in Yorkshire? And I am told by reliable sources a fair bit easier than the groove, but they might be sandbagging me. It felt pretty hard when I dogged up it!
The groove always looks wet to me .
Supercool though, now we are talking a line. Surely the best looking line in Yorkshire? And I am told by reliable sources a fair bit easier than the groove, but they might be sandbagging me. It felt pretty hard when I dogged up it!
In reply to JimR:
The edge is such a wonderful route with an out-there feeling. I remember the first lead finding no gear at all until that gap between the wall and the top of the flake. River Buttress in Mauchline is an amazing feature yet no-one seems to climb there. Ayrshire's full of wonderful rock, most of it unrecorded (I can think of half a dozen crags not on UKC maps). There are some access problems though (which is why I have not recorded them) but there are a few along the River Ayr that offer good mid-grade trad in mind-blowing locations.
> Loudon Hill was my local crag as a youth, Pulpit crack was my first VS. The Edge fixated me there and it took a wee while to summon up the courage to lead it. Its still one of my great climbing memories.
The edge is such a wonderful route with an out-there feeling. I remember the first lead finding no gear at all until that gap between the wall and the top of the flake. River Buttress in Mauchline is an amazing feature yet no-one seems to climb there. Ayrshire's full of wonderful rock, most of it unrecorded (I can think of half a dozen crags not on UKC maps). There are some access problems though (which is why I have not recorded them) but there are a few along the River Ayr that offer good mid-grade trad in mind-blowing locations.
In reply to snoop6060:
Goredale generally is very inspiring, and I've never climbed there. Maybe next summer if I'm lucky, I won't be working. And The Ashes at Kilnsey sounds fantastic too.
> Supercool though, now we are talking a line.
Goredale generally is very inspiring, and I've never climbed there. Maybe next summer if I'm lucky, I won't be working. And The Ashes at Kilnsey sounds fantastic too.
In reply to Tigger:
I'm sure that you'll poo poo it but the line that I always aspired to was Flying Buttress Direct. It's just such a striking line, and one of those routes that everyone stops and watches when someones on it.
I just never thought I'd be good enough, and although it's no big deal, it was a massive milestone for me when I led it (proving to me I could do better if I tried hard).
Now that I've done it a couple of times I always smile when I walk past it, and those old demons have been bannished
I'm sure that you'll poo poo it but the line that I always aspired to was Flying Buttress Direct. It's just such a striking line, and one of those routes that everyone stops and watches when someones on it.
I just never thought I'd be good enough, and although it's no big deal, it was a massive milestone for me when I led it (proving to me I could do better if I tried hard).
Now that I've done it a couple of times I always smile when I walk past it, and those old demons have been bannished
Post edited at 10:11
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In reply to Ciderslider:
I wanted to do it for ages but really wanted to o/s so waited till I thought I was strong enough for it. Well worth the wait and soon realised that it was easier than I had expected, I love routes that cover intimidating terrain at a modest grade :-D
I wanted to do it for ages but really wanted to o/s so waited till I thought I was strong enough for it. Well worth the wait and soon realised that it was easier than I had expected, I love routes that cover intimidating terrain at a modest grade :-D
3
In reply to Tigger:
Insanity,Curbar.Hugh Banner route.Banner was a guy who was challenging the Brown and Whillans myth.These two had not managed to lead or solo the route.Banner soloed it. As a beginner I got totally spanked trying to top rope it.I did some training and managed to top rope it.Then led it.Eventually soloed it ,then soloed it every time I went to Curbar,one day 4 times in a row for photos. Now I have arthritis in my back and wrists,I have problems leading it.
Hugh Banner was always iconic for me.I think Troach on Clog is his?
Insanity,Curbar.Hugh Banner route.Banner was a guy who was challenging the Brown and Whillans myth.These two had not managed to lead or solo the route.Banner soloed it. As a beginner I got totally spanked trying to top rope it.I did some training and managed to top rope it.Then led it.Eventually soloed it ,then soloed it every time I went to Curbar,one day 4 times in a row for photos. Now I have arthritis in my back and wrists,I have problems leading it.
Hugh Banner was always iconic for me.I think Troach on Clog is his?
Post edited at 10:29
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In reply to snoop6060:
Yes it's not the most reliable route there, for sure! I've heard lots about Supercool but I've not actually seen it having only visited on walks without a guidebook. I'm sure it will be added to my 4-year Yorkshire list once I actually realise which route it is!
> The groove always looks wet to me .
> Supercool though, now we are talking a line. Surely the best looking line in Yorkshire? And I am told by reliable sources a fair bit easier than the groove, but they might be sandbagging me. It felt pretty hard when I dogged up it!
Yes it's not the most reliable route there, for sure! I've heard lots about Supercool but I've not actually seen it having only visited on walks without a guidebook. I'm sure it will be added to my 4-year Yorkshire list once I actually realise which route it is!
In reply to James Malloch:
You don't need a guide
It's the plum line right up the middle of the best looking bit. You've defo already laid eyes on it if you walked through. You probably thought... Wow, what a line. Wonder what it is
You don't need a guide
It's the plum line right up the middle of the best looking bit. You've defo already laid eyes on it if you walked through. You probably thought... Wow, what a line. Wonder what it is
Post edited at 11:50
In reply to zimpara:
It's usually a subtle way to declare yourself as a bold or technically gifted climber.
> I thought you didn't need strength for climbing on grit?
It's usually a subtle way to declare yourself as a bold or technically gifted climber.
In reply to paul mitchell:
Me too. And yes, Troach is his.
> ....Hugh Banner was always iconic for me.I think Troach on Clog is his?
Me too. And yes, Troach is his.
In reply to zimpara:
Lol
Roof route rivelin is a recent one where a bit of muscle certainly helped. I've found for me personally slate doesn't require too much strength for the grade just a steady head and calves of iron.
Lol
Roof route rivelin is a recent one where a bit of muscle certainly helped. I've found for me personally slate doesn't require too much strength for the grade just a steady head and calves of iron.
Post edited at 12:22
2
In reply to snoop6060:
Almost certainly - but it's pissed it down on each of my visits so I've mainly checked the starts out...
Almost certainly - but it's pissed it down on each of my visits so I've mainly checked the starts out...
In reply to Tigger:
When I started to Lead VS on grit, one thing that inspired me was the 'Do you climb VS?' list tucked away in the old BMC Burbage and Beyond guide. I'd heard about this jamming lark but was a bit clueless, however I really wanted to climb The File at Higgar Tor because of its history and reputation (and basically just the beauty of it too). Every crack became practice to improve my hand jamming and toughen up my skin. The practice was worth it as it was a joy to climb and one of my favourite memories of climbing.
Come to think of it, I've still not completed the list in the guide, but at least I can hand jam.
When I started to Lead VS on grit, one thing that inspired me was the 'Do you climb VS?' list tucked away in the old BMC Burbage and Beyond guide. I'd heard about this jamming lark but was a bit clueless, however I really wanted to climb The File at Higgar Tor because of its history and reputation (and basically just the beauty of it too). Every crack became practice to improve my hand jamming and toughen up my skin. The practice was worth it as it was a joy to climb and one of my favourite memories of climbing.
Come to think of it, I've still not completed the list in the guide, but at least I can hand jam.
2
In reply to Jimbo C:
It's a ticklist apparently...
http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/set.php?id=1059
> 'Do you climb VS?'
It's a ticklist apparently...
http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/set.php?id=1059
In reply to 1poundSOCKS:
Oh dear, I've only done 5 of them as it turns out - *dusts off climbing rack*
Oh dear, I've only done 5 of them as it turns out - *dusts off climbing rack*
In reply to Jimbo C:
I've only done Altar Crack, and that was hard enough. But I love stuff like this, so I've subscribed now.
I've only done Altar Crack, and that was hard enough. But I love stuff like this, so I've subscribed now.
1
In reply to 1poundSOCKS:
The Ashes is amazing, probably the best route of its grade I've done. Great line, brilliantly sustained leading upto to the crux. Then that run-out to finish. Its got everything.
Andy F
> Goredale generally is very inspiring, and I've never climbed there. Maybe next summer if I'm lucky, I won't be working. And The Ashes at Kilnsey sounds fantastic too.
The Ashes is amazing, probably the best route of its grade I've done. Great line, brilliantly sustained leading upto to the crux. Then that run-out to finish. Its got everything.
Andy F
In reply to Tigger:
Bill Birkett did a book "Classic climbs of Great Britain" which I purchased when I started out and I thought I would love to do them all. Well a few still escape me (and one at least fell down) but others like the Sloth (HVS), Right Angle (HS), Saxon (HVS), Great Slab (Cloggy VS), Cenotaph Corner (E1) and Sacre Coeur (E2) spurred me on. Varying grades and all of them memorable milestones in my climbing career. In many ways the grade didn't matter severe or E2 they had their own unique signature and story to tell... God I'm sounding like Johnny Dawes now
Bill Birkett did a book "Classic climbs of Great Britain" which I purchased when I started out and I thought I would love to do them all. Well a few still escape me (and one at least fell down) but others like the Sloth (HVS), Right Angle (HS), Saxon (HVS), Great Slab (Cloggy VS), Cenotaph Corner (E1) and Sacre Coeur (E2) spurred me on. Varying grades and all of them memorable milestones in my climbing career. In many ways the grade didn't matter severe or E2 they had their own unique signature and story to tell... God I'm sounding like Johnny Dawes now
2
In reply to andy farnell:
That's pretty much what somebody else said to me.
> The Ashes is amazing, probably the best route of its grade I've done.
That's pretty much what somebody else said to me.
In reply to andy farnell:
I totally agree with that. Sport climbers are inspired by the lines of routes as much as any other type of climbing. This is particularly true with hard redpoints. If you're gonna spend days working a route then more days attempting to redpoint it you have to have something that really inspires you.
The only thing is if you can climb harder grades most of the time you can climb even more inspiring lines. The best lines at most crags are usually taken by the harder or hardest routes.
> Sport isn't always about the grade.
I totally agree with that. Sport climbers are inspired by the lines of routes as much as any other type of climbing. This is particularly true with hard redpoints. If you're gonna spend days working a route then more days attempting to redpoint it you have to have something that really inspires you.
The only thing is if you can climb harder grades most of the time you can climb even more inspiring lines. The best lines at most crags are usually taken by the harder or hardest routes.
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