UKC

I thought this article was really good:

http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=8958

What do others think, have you succeeded if you pushed yourself further than before or do you have to on-sight a route to count as personal success?

In reply to springfall2008:

Onsighting a route can sometimes be easier than expected - the route may well be overgraded. I don't get as much satisifaction when I find something easy as when I find something hard - regardless of the grade, which is just someone else's opinion.

The best is when I climb really well. That is I'm relaxed yet aggressive when I need to be. I read the sequences correctly, don't hesitate etc. But I still find the climbing hard. If I do all that then the outcome is bound to be a good personal achievement for me, again regardless of the grade.

Failure on routes gives me something to go back to and also shows me my weaknesses so something to work on. So I learn a bit about myself which has to be a good thing too.

In reply to springfall2008:

If I push myself to the limit, I succeeded in pushing myself to the limit. If I onsight a route, I succeeded in onsighting the route. Obvious really. I just don't feel the need to boil it all down to a single result. There can be different successes and failures on the same climb.

In reply to springfall2008:
Onsighting a (trad) route where success had been very much in the balance brings a huge, transient sense of satisfaction and relief, especially if it was bold. I don't really go in for onsighting sport routes or boulder problems.

However, I get a bigger, longer lasting sense of satisfaction and achievement from completing something truely hard for me, and raising my climbing level. This is only possible through projecting on boulders or sport. It's particularly the case if I have been working towards that single objective for months (which by definition isn't possible if you are onsighting.)

I can also gain satisfaction from a session if I feel I have made some progress towards an objective at my limit, even if it is just working out a single hand movement improvement. There is also a knack to not letting it get you down when you have a session where you feel like you've gone backwards. Even this can provide some feeling of satisfaction if you equate it in your mind to a training session in a nice place. Everything Ricky Bell says in the recent Blocheads film is spot on for me, that really resonated.

In reply to Si dH:


Really hard to do. Only really happened to me once (haven't redpointed many routes really) but I went and did a bit of training to get back in shape. Didn't take much effort and i got it ticked quickly afterwards. Where there's a will...

Personally, I think the climbing is successful if I climbed one or more good routes and finished without any epics/injuries. I'm happy to push the grade on sports routes as it's easy to fall off/bail when it's going badly but not on Trad where I'd prefer to stay in one piece!

In reply to Si dH:


It is possible indirectly when onsighting when you feel that all your training and psyche has come together in a few minutes of execution. I get by far the most satisfaction sport climbing when I onsight really aggressively and get up something by the skin of my teeth, and therefore with failure having been the most likely outcime. The idea of redpointing just doesn't get me excited (except that I'd like to do an 8a just for the number - but life is probably too short)

In reply to Robert Durran:
Have you ever properly tried? I think you might be surprised. Every single attempt at a hard redpoint is uncertain to the point that fsilure is the most likely outcome, and when you finally do it, it feels pretty good.

In reply to Si dH:


I redpointed a local 7c+ by toproping it for training over several years, then did it on my first lead attempt, which then felt nothing amazingly special. I've only ever really worked one other route.


But, in a sense there is no such thing as a failed redpoint, because you can always have another go, so I'm not sure I could get psyched for it - I just love the uncompromising all or nothing fight to the death of onsighting. I've no interest in redpointing failed onsights (too easy) - it would have to be something that I might not be capable of (ie 8a!), but I'm not sure I want to sacrifice lots of other climbing for a protracted siege.

In reply to springfall2008: A decent enough article, however I think that a lot of us already live in a 'post-failure' world.

I think many of us who have been climbing for long enough, moved far beyond the simple black and white world of success and failure years ago.

These days I have faith. I know that all I need to do is just go climbing and the successes will arrive in the end. As such, failure doesn't really exist, apart from failing to go climbing in the first place.

In reply to The Ex-Engineer:

Good answer!

It also depends on the type of climbing. If it's a redpoint or headpoint, it's all about the eventual tick. Not quite getting it after putting in a lot of effort is frustrating but I see it as part of the journey. Besides, the harder the battle, the sweeter the victory.

If it's trad, it's all about the onsight, especially if it's a grade I should be able to onsight. Having a rest or taking a fall on something I'd expect to onsight is indeed a failure (assuming it's not due to conditions or a hold braking) but that's rare. Sometimes I try onsighting routes which are at my limit and which I might not get up onsight. In that case, simply getting up them with as few rests/falls as possible is already an achievement.

If it's a winter route, falling off is a very bad idea in the first place! Anyway, I don't really push myself hard enough in winter (yet) to result in falls or rests.

If it's an alpine route, it generally won't be hard enough to involve rests or falls. Even if there was a particularly hard crux pitch where I have a rest or a fall, that wouldn't really mean I've failed as long I manage the rest of the route because for me alpine routes are more about the overall experience. However I might not be able to do the route for other reasons - route finding, conditions, weather, unacceptable objective risks and so on. Such things are frustrating but I just put them down to experience and perhaps try the route again some other time.