This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Ive been increasingly dis-satisfied with my current career as a chef over the last couple of years and so have been considering retraining.
The more thought ive put into career options, a drastic change has seemed more likely and tree surgery has been seeming more appealing. I like the idea that (i imagine) while its good hard work (i do love a physical & mental challenge), its not in a fast paced high pressure environment like a kitchen. Ill be outdoors as oppose to in some dungeon without windows. I will get to work in different locations. The work daily workload isnt likely to fluctuate by the minute yet still have to be done in the same time frame. I find rope-work/rigging aspect of climbing very interesting and as oppose to rope access work, ill likely be somewhere a bit nicer seeing as there are trees involved.
I imagine there are quite a few tree surgeons on this forum, so my questions are -
What are the pro's/cons to the job?
How saturated is the job market/ how hard is it to find work with a company?
How would an employer view somebody who only has a couple of courses under his belt and no experience?
Post edited at 19:43
1
In reply to ActionSte:
Looks like a nice job but you should bear in mind that all the tree surgeons I use seem to be available at a day's notice. I only have several in the notepad because they're often away on climbing trips!!
Looks like a nice job but you should bear in mind that all the tree surgeons I use seem to be available at a day's notice. I only have several in the notepad because they're often away on climbing trips!!
In reply to ActionSte:
Tree surgery is really interesting work. Most of the people I know are freelance but take people on from time to time, though as an employee it is not that well paid.
You would be good to have a LANTRA tree inspection award, chainsaw certificate and pole saw certificate. Also some training in tree surgery.
How saturated is the market? Hard to say it depends where you live.
Pros - working with trees, climbing, promoting good horticultural practice, being outside and every job is different with different challenges.
Cons - working for people who think a 10 foot holly is a massive tree that will crush their house, trying to drop a tree without smashing a greenhouse, working occasionally in pouring rain or freezing weather
Tree surgery is really interesting work. Most of the people I know are freelance but take people on from time to time, though as an employee it is not that well paid.
You would be good to have a LANTRA tree inspection award, chainsaw certificate and pole saw certificate. Also some training in tree surgery.
How saturated is the market? Hard to say it depends where you live.
Pros - working with trees, climbing, promoting good horticultural practice, being outside and every job is different with different challenges.
Cons - working for people who think a 10 foot holly is a massive tree that will crush their house, trying to drop a tree without smashing a greenhouse, working occasionally in pouring rain or freezing weather
2
In reply to ActionSte:
I guess something to keep in mind might be that the ability to do the job may decrease as you get older and perhaps pick up the odd injury along the way, but I'm sure there's things you could do to lessen wear and tear on your body too.
Nothing ventured nothing gained as they say...
I knew somebody for a while who worked as a tree surgeon, and he's used the tree knowledge he's gained over the years of being a surgeon to go into something less physical and more ecology/knowledge based.
As you get into the job and learn about trees and related ecology, it probably wouldn't do any harm to learn what you can about trees which could be used in a capacity which doesn't always involve working with them.
http://www.mortontraining.co.uk/about/
This guy is good re training in any related courses. I've done my 'small trees' chainsaw with him, and other land based bits and pieces, but he runs courses on tree surgery as well, he's always willing to talk about the different courses they run, and will tell you if one isn't the right one for what you want to do.
I guess something to keep in mind might be that the ability to do the job may decrease as you get older and perhaps pick up the odd injury along the way, but I'm sure there's things you could do to lessen wear and tear on your body too.
Nothing ventured nothing gained as they say...
I knew somebody for a while who worked as a tree surgeon, and he's used the tree knowledge he's gained over the years of being a surgeon to go into something less physical and more ecology/knowledge based.
As you get into the job and learn about trees and related ecology, it probably wouldn't do any harm to learn what you can about trees which could be used in a capacity which doesn't always involve working with them.
http://www.mortontraining.co.uk/about/
This guy is good re training in any related courses. I've done my 'small trees' chainsaw with him, and other land based bits and pieces, but he runs courses on tree surgery as well, he's always willing to talk about the different courses they run, and will tell you if one isn't the right one for what you want to do.
Post edited at 00:16
4
In reply to ActionSte:
I wanted to be a tree surgeon.
But I couldn't stand the sight of sap...
(© S. Fawlty.)
I wanted to be a tree surgeon.
But I couldn't stand the sight of sap...
(© S. Fawlty.)
13
2
In reply to ActionSte:
One of my mates has become a tree surgeon recently and his climbing has suffered - he's simply too tired after a day climbing trees / lugging logs to climb.
Depending on where you are there's a lot of hedge cutting as opposed to tree climbing. It's also a very 'word of mouth' business for normal tree surgery, so you'll need to work for someone else to start with. If you work as a self-employed subcontractor then you would only expect to pick up work during busy periods when the established businesses are stacked out with work....but you'll then be wanting others to work for you and they'll already be busy.
One of my mates has become a tree surgeon recently and his climbing has suffered - he's simply too tired after a day climbing trees / lugging logs to climb.
Depending on where you are there's a lot of hedge cutting as opposed to tree climbing. It's also a very 'word of mouth' business for normal tree surgery, so you'll need to work for someone else to start with. If you work as a self-employed subcontractor then you would only expect to pick up work during busy periods when the established businesses are stacked out with work....but you'll then be wanting others to work for you and they'll already be busy.
In reply to ActionSte:
Market down here in South Devon is fairly saturated for one man bands with a couple of saws.
The guys getting more lucrative work have invested in kit; aerial platforms, chippers and stump grinders primarily. With that kit you can take on more challenging and possibly lucrative work if that is what you want/need.
You will also need storage for logs and logging unless you plan on passing that on to someone else which could damage your income as well.
Shattering work when you're really going at it but interesting and quite satisfying.
Market down here in South Devon is fairly saturated for one man bands with a couple of saws.
The guys getting more lucrative work have invested in kit; aerial platforms, chippers and stump grinders primarily. With that kit you can take on more challenging and possibly lucrative work if that is what you want/need.
You will also need storage for logs and logging unless you plan on passing that on to someone else which could damage your income as well.
Shattering work when you're really going at it but interesting and quite satisfying.
In reply to ActionSte:
I did relevant training for tree surgery and have worked in it on and off - but only here in SW France. It can all be good fun but sometimes v dangerous and scary in a different way to climbing. It can also be stressful - I worked with a groundsman for a while - he took the quotes - and once on the job it was all rush to keep the schedule. I now refuse to give quotes - but this will not work for many clients. If you worked for a road gang / electric line clearance - there's good camraderie but ethics go up in flames.
The greatest satisfaction is doing difficult access where more energy goes into rigging than cutting/clearing - as an independent. Watch out for fixed cost thresholds - your kit may legally need renewing every 5yrs :o Find clients who really appreciate your skills and the applied ethics - rather than those who just want rid of a tree. I further only work with clients who keep arisings on their property - to burn or process; carting it all away is v tiresome - and here in France there are charges for disposal at the tip.
I'm open to further interrogation
I did relevant training for tree surgery and have worked in it on and off - but only here in SW France. It can all be good fun but sometimes v dangerous and scary in a different way to climbing. It can also be stressful - I worked with a groundsman for a while - he took the quotes - and once on the job it was all rush to keep the schedule. I now refuse to give quotes - but this will not work for many clients. If you worked for a road gang / electric line clearance - there's good camraderie but ethics go up in flames.
The greatest satisfaction is doing difficult access where more energy goes into rigging than cutting/clearing - as an independent. Watch out for fixed cost thresholds - your kit may legally need renewing every 5yrs :o Find clients who really appreciate your skills and the applied ethics - rather than those who just want rid of a tree. I further only work with clients who keep arisings on their property - to burn or process; carting it all away is v tiresome - and here in France there are charges for disposal at the tip.
I'm open to further interrogation
1
In reply to ActionSte:
Something to think about might be ringing around any surgeons in your area and talking about possibilities of working with them once qualified, maybe arranging to do that with a few of them?
Something to think about might be ringing around any surgeons in your area and talking about possibilities of working with them once qualified, maybe arranging to do that with a few of them?
In reply to ActionSte:
Hello,
I retrained from a job in IT as a Tree Surgeon many years ago now, and am back in a IT based job again.
It is hard work. Very hard work. My climbing also suffered, towards the end I was either up a tree, splitting wood or sleeping. A mountain biking injury put pay to my tree climbing days, and having been sat behind a desk again for the last 9 years I get to do more now than I did then.
Things to consider:
Your age: I retrained in my early 20's and was able to climb competitively until I was 30, even though retiring was due to breaking myself into pieces on my mountain bike, physically I was starting to feel it trying to keep up with the youngsters.
Experience: You'll be feeding a chipper day in day out for a long while. Whether you have your climbing ticket or not.
Training: NTPC or nothing.
Education: I was fortunate enough to do a Nat. Dip Arboriculture while working part time for a local company. I was able to learn the theory and the practical in 18months, with all tickets required and started freelance climbing after that. I would say another year went by before I was properly competent.
Danger: It's not a case of if you cut yourself but when, and how bad. Not just chainsaws, I seen a hand saw do plenty enough damage. As well as crush injuries. Add to that ladders and hedgetrimmers....
Having said all that, I don't regret a single day I spent in the trees, and I still get phone calls offering me climbing work, so I gather the job market is still bouyant.
Hope this helps...
Hello,
I retrained from a job in IT as a Tree Surgeon many years ago now, and am back in a IT based job again.
It is hard work. Very hard work. My climbing also suffered, towards the end I was either up a tree, splitting wood or sleeping. A mountain biking injury put pay to my tree climbing days, and having been sat behind a desk again for the last 9 years I get to do more now than I did then.
Things to consider:
Your age: I retrained in my early 20's and was able to climb competitively until I was 30, even though retiring was due to breaking myself into pieces on my mountain bike, physically I was starting to feel it trying to keep up with the youngsters.
Experience: You'll be feeding a chipper day in day out for a long while. Whether you have your climbing ticket or not.
Training: NTPC or nothing.
Education: I was fortunate enough to do a Nat. Dip Arboriculture while working part time for a local company. I was able to learn the theory and the practical in 18months, with all tickets required and started freelance climbing after that. I would say another year went by before I was properly competent.
Danger: It's not a case of if you cut yourself but when, and how bad. Not just chainsaws, I seen a hand saw do plenty enough damage. As well as crush injuries. Add to that ladders and hedgetrimmers....
Having said all that, I don't regret a single day I spent in the trees, and I still get phone calls offering me climbing work, so I gather the job market is still bouyant.
Hope this helps...
5
In reply to damion:
In the village-way of Sheffield I heard about a youngster (only just 20 I gather) from a couple of different people who's foot slipped while he was sawing up a tree, and he killed himself when his neck met his running saw. It could be he was doing something wrong, I don't know the details.
Some of the best advice I got about chainsawing was about the danger of being confident with one, with this leading to less caginess relating to the dangers. The guy who gave me it hasn't had an accident with one (touch wood). I find they're scary and strangely addictive things, quite satisfying to use once a heap of chopped wood has appeared.
In the village-way of Sheffield I heard about a youngster (only just 20 I gather) from a couple of different people who's foot slipped while he was sawing up a tree, and he killed himself when his neck met his running saw. It could be he was doing something wrong, I don't know the details.
Some of the best advice I got about chainsawing was about the danger of being confident with one, with this leading to less caginess relating to the dangers. The guy who gave me it hasn't had an accident with one (touch wood). I find they're scary and strangely addictive things, quite satisfying to use once a heap of chopped wood has appeared.
Post edited at 16:21
1
In reply to ActionSte:
hey man! so a while back i was in your situation more or less (a little experience perhaps). I can only talk about my experience, which is public sector tree works (parks and street trees in london. this can mean some truly massive trees) and estate woodland work.
firstly a warning: it really is very physical. and, though i'm only in my mid twenties and would consider myself fairly fit, it does knock lumps out of you and it will, without question, impact on any physical hobbies.
also, sometimes it actually is quite fast paced and fairly pressured. often there's a big drive to get more done, faster. the more work you do, the more money you make. This doesn't change when it starts raining.
finally there's also real alpha male problems in the industry. You will at times feel pressured to do more, or things you might not want to do. this leads to stupid decisions and pushing yourself harder than you may want to on any given day. if you feel confident you can rise above this, then it shouldn't worry you.
lastly, it is an industry where employers always get their pound of flesh. You'll get payed, you won't be broke, but there'll definitely times where you feel like you deserve more than you're making.
having said all that it is generally varied and satisfying, the more technical jobs like dismantling big trees over people's property are interesting and enjoyable challenge, and when you get up into truly special trees from time to time (i've been up some of london's biggest over the last few months) then those really are quite unique experiences.
for a employee there's lots and lots of work. if you're good, and make an effort then you'll stand head and shoulders above lots of other people. check a forum called arbtalk.
lastly, I've got to be blunt and say that as much as i enjoy this work i will, without question, get out of it before i'm old. before i'm even middle aged for that matter. it's certainly possible i end up doing something within the industry but off the tools, but i have to bear in mind the real possibility that 10 to 15 years from now i'll be retraining.
also i would echo the comment above about the inevitability of accidents.
good luck, it's fun! and stay safe
hey man! so a while back i was in your situation more or less (a little experience perhaps). I can only talk about my experience, which is public sector tree works (parks and street trees in london. this can mean some truly massive trees) and estate woodland work.
firstly a warning: it really is very physical. and, though i'm only in my mid twenties and would consider myself fairly fit, it does knock lumps out of you and it will, without question, impact on any physical hobbies.
also, sometimes it actually is quite fast paced and fairly pressured. often there's a big drive to get more done, faster. the more work you do, the more money you make. This doesn't change when it starts raining.
finally there's also real alpha male problems in the industry. You will at times feel pressured to do more, or things you might not want to do. this leads to stupid decisions and pushing yourself harder than you may want to on any given day. if you feel confident you can rise above this, then it shouldn't worry you.
lastly, it is an industry where employers always get their pound of flesh. You'll get payed, you won't be broke, but there'll definitely times where you feel like you deserve more than you're making.
having said all that it is generally varied and satisfying, the more technical jobs like dismantling big trees over people's property are interesting and enjoyable challenge, and when you get up into truly special trees from time to time (i've been up some of london's biggest over the last few months) then those really are quite unique experiences.
for a employee there's lots and lots of work. if you're good, and make an effort then you'll stand head and shoulders above lots of other people. check a forum called arbtalk.
lastly, I've got to be blunt and say that as much as i enjoy this work i will, without question, get out of it before i'm old. before i'm even middle aged for that matter. it's certainly possible i end up doing something within the industry but off the tools, but i have to bear in mind the real possibility that 10 to 15 years from now i'll be retraining.
also i would echo the comment above about the inevitability of accidents.
good luck, it's fun! and stay safe
3
In reply to stuartpicken:
The guy I know who's gone into something tree related that's not surgery commented that it's a young person's job, but I've met a couple in their 40's approaching 50's. I guess it depends on their financial situation and whether they can work at a slower pace (throughout the year) and still afford to live.
The guy I know who's gone into something tree related that's not surgery commented that it's a young person's job, but I've met a couple in their 40's approaching 50's. I guess it depends on their financial situation and whether they can work at a slower pace (throughout the year) and still afford to live.
In reply to stuartpicken:
but evidently there's a world of difference between an employee and being self employed in this business; in the latter (as I have mostly been) you don't have to work if its raining, there are no alpha males at hand to bate you ... and I have never had an accident which drew blood - plenty of knocks and the odd broken rib.
but there are limits to the jobs you can do as a one-man band - I often work with the client which is frowned on (insurance) - and as soon as you have a groundsman there would be pressure to keep him occupied
> also i would echo the comment above about the inevitability of accidents.
but evidently there's a world of difference between an employee and being self employed in this business; in the latter (as I have mostly been) you don't have to work if its raining, there are no alpha males at hand to bate you ... and I have never had an accident which drew blood - plenty of knocks and the odd broken rib.
but there are limits to the jobs you can do as a one-man band - I often work with the client which is frowned on (insurance) - and as soon as you have a groundsman there would be pressure to keep him occupied
In reply to Timmd:
A sad irony for tree surgeons - all the hype for PPE (personal protective equipment). When performing certain cuts to dismantle a tree nothing will save you if something goes wrong - boots, armbands, helmet ... these cuts are made at face/neck level and poss 50cm from face/neck - extreme vulnerability and quite intimidating. What might have saved this chap is a better reflex to brake the saw/chain - which is v quick
> In the village-way of Sheffield I heard about a youngster (only just 20 I gather) from a couple of different people who's foot slipped while he was sawing up a tree, and he killed himself when his neck met his running saw.
A sad irony for tree surgeons - all the hype for PPE (personal protective equipment). When performing certain cuts to dismantle a tree nothing will save you if something goes wrong - boots, armbands, helmet ... these cuts are made at face/neck level and poss 50cm from face/neck - extreme vulnerability and quite intimidating. What might have saved this chap is a better reflex to brake the saw/chain - which is v quick
3
In reply to LeeWood:
I guess there's not always a lot of time between slipping and falling onto something. Quite a useful lesson to apply to other situations I guess in thinking about what might happen due to slippage etc, I think in life in general my younger self would have relied upon my reactions more than I do. I like that chainsaws can have inertia brakes in them.
My Dad used to ride on the mud guard of his uncle's Ferguson tractor where he could have slipped into the whirling rear axle transmission, and when his aunt ask what would happen if he slipped, the reply was 'Well he'd get mushed up'. His uncle did have to reach behind and save him once or twice, quick reactions.
I guess there's not always a lot of time between slipping and falling onto something. Quite a useful lesson to apply to other situations I guess in thinking about what might happen due to slippage etc, I think in life in general my younger self would have relied upon my reactions more than I do. I like that chainsaws can have inertia brakes in them.
My Dad used to ride on the mud guard of his uncle's Ferguson tractor where he could have slipped into the whirling rear axle transmission, and when his aunt ask what would happen if he slipped, the reply was 'Well he'd get mushed up'. His uncle did have to reach behind and save him once or twice, quick reactions.
Post edited at 18:13
2
In reply to Timmd:
Definitely check out Arbtalk, I do believe there's still a thread on there with my ugly mug (pre and post chainsaw accident). Complacency was the cause of that for sure.
Definitely check out Arbtalk, I do believe there's still a thread on there with my ugly mug (pre and post chainsaw accident). Complacency was the cause of that for sure.
2
In reply to ActionSte:
Going out on a limb there.
> The more thought ive put into career options, a drastic change has seemed more likely and tree surgery has been seeming more appealing.
Going out on a limb there.
1
In reply to ActionSte:
Got a couple mates who are tree surgeons, would echo much of what has been said above (especially the knackering bit, one of them comes home and generally falls asleep on the couch most evenings from what i can make out!).
Something i don't think has came up is travel - both of them operate over a 200mile or so radius of home, and you're faced with spending a lot of time away form home/family, or doing some really long days travelling to job and back. Some employers/contractors will pay for these things, others won't....
Another mate used to do a lot of work on the railways as mentioned above somewhere, but he came from a ropes access background and got his tree tickets afterwards, might be something else to think about.
Got a couple mates who are tree surgeons, would echo much of what has been said above (especially the knackering bit, one of them comes home and generally falls asleep on the couch most evenings from what i can make out!).
Something i don't think has came up is travel - both of them operate over a 200mile or so radius of home, and you're faced with spending a lot of time away form home/family, or doing some really long days travelling to job and back. Some employers/contractors will pay for these things, others won't....
Another mate used to do a lot of work on the railways as mentioned above somewhere, but he came from a ropes access background and got his tree tickets afterwards, might be something else to think about.
2
In reply to LeeWood:
thankfully i've never had a real injury either - and i would count broken ribs as a 'real' one! I just worry as i look around where i work and lots of the older climbers have scars to show. my hope is that i will pass my career without any, due to new practices, lighter saws and their example! however, the risks need to be taken seriously.
back to original post: in fact work/life balance can be such a struggle i'm planning on making some fairly drastic changes over the coming year in order to make sure i get more time to play. these include quitting my full time job and relying on finding sub-contract work and the odd small self-employed or forestry gig around the country!
If you'd asked this question a year from now i suspect my answer could be quite different; the coming year may make or break things for me - all depending on how much time i get to play!
lots of if's buts and 'ooh maybes' however, i'd probably say the cost of the basic felling nptc tickets are about what some people pay for a weeks skiing and about as much fun! so what's to lose?
thankfully i've never had a real injury either - and i would count broken ribs as a 'real' one! I just worry as i look around where i work and lots of the older climbers have scars to show. my hope is that i will pass my career without any, due to new practices, lighter saws and their example! however, the risks need to be taken seriously.
back to original post: in fact work/life balance can be such a struggle i'm planning on making some fairly drastic changes over the coming year in order to make sure i get more time to play. these include quitting my full time job and relying on finding sub-contract work and the odd small self-employed or forestry gig around the country!
If you'd asked this question a year from now i suspect my answer could be quite different; the coming year may make or break things for me - all depending on how much time i get to play!
lots of if's buts and 'ooh maybes' however, i'd probably say the cost of the basic felling nptc tickets are about what some people pay for a weeks skiing and about as much fun! so what's to lose?
3
> lots of if's buts and 'ooh maybes' however, i'd probably say the cost of the basic felling nptc tickets are about what some people pay for a weeks skiing and about as much fun! so what's to lose?
Thats a very good way of looking at it!
I appreciate all the feedback, its given me a lot of food for thought. My age is a factor as ill be 32 this year, though im probably stronger than i was at 22 when i was labouring for a bricky (Turns out working in a BBQ restaurant and throwing massive boxes of meat around all day is a fairly good workout) i imagine that wont be the same in another 10 years.
Im currently making around 17k a year working between 45-55 hours a week anywhere from 7am to midnight on no set working pattern and sometimes only 7 hours between shifts. So more money for more physically intense work, but with way more sociable hours still seems like a bonus and a real boost to work/life balance even if i am knackered when i get in.
Im probably going to give it a shot. I think what worries me the most is either not enjoying it/not finding enough work and having to go back into a kitchen, which is work i find fairly soul destroying.
2
There aren't many older tree surgeons - read into this what you will - but it is worth a thought before choosing what to do.
1
1
In reply to ActionSte: I know lots of people like you who have found tree surgeon the option which comes to mind; nobody seems to stick with it though.
1
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Elsewhere on the site
Fri Night Vid Finding Focus - Life Behind The Lens of a Climbing Photographer
This week's Friday Night Video is a portrait of a prolific climbing photographer from Wedge Climbing. Sam Pratt is well known in both the outdoor and competition scene but if you haven't heard of him, you've likely seen...
26 Apr
Loading Notifications...