UKC

Trial Balloon for a Coup

New Topic
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
 Hugh Cottam 30 Jan 2017

How Trump and Bannon are systematically unravelling the checks and balances of US government. Fascist Superstate Ahoy!

"Analyzing the News of the Last 24 Hours" https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/trial-balloon-for-a-coup-e024990891d5#.6m...

If this seems alarmist please anybody tell me any sections of it that are factually untrue.
Post edited at 14:22
1
 jkarran 30 Jan 2017
In reply to Hugh Cottam:

> How Trump and Bannon are systematically unravelling the checks and balances of US government. Fascist Superstate Ahoy!

I wouldn't bet against it anymore. A decade plus of rampant paranoia has left them with the data, infrastructure and public mentality to facilitate it.
jk
baron 30 Jan 2017
In reply to jkarran:
And now you know why so many US citizens are anti federal government and why they won't give up their firearms.

OP Hugh Cottam 30 Jan 2017
In reply to jkarran:

I think they're actually in the midst of doing it. The Department of Homeland Security is openly ignoring the authority of the US courts. It's basically the end of the US constitution.
baron 30 Jan 2017
In reply to Hugh Cottam:
Really?
1
 jkarran 30 Jan 2017
In reply to baron:

> And now you know why so many US citizens are anti federal government and why they won't give up their firearms.

Nope, you'll have to convince me with arguments and reason because it seems to me 'Americans with guns' won't stand in the way of this if it comes to pass, they've been the artless cheerleaders for it. Their guns won't protect them, the only thing that will is time and subservience: they won't be the first in line.
jk
baron 30 Jan 2017
In reply to jkarran:

Isn't the second amendment designed to stop a tyrannical government subjugating the people?
Talk of subservience fails to take account of the fiercely independent nature of many US citizens.
Those who fail to arm themselves to fight the tyrant Trump can't say they weren't warned!
1
OP Hugh Cottam 30 Jan 2017
In reply to baron:

Really? Yes https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/29/customs-border-protection-a...

CBP and DHS are openly defying the court rulings.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Democrat Don Beyer says ‘we have a constitutional crisis’ over refusal to release travellers from Muslim-majority countries after judge grants temporary stay.

Customs and Border Protection (CBP) agents defied the orders of federal judges regarding Donald Trump’s travel bans on Sunday, according to members of Congress and attorneys who rallied protests around the country in support of detained refugees and travellers from seven Muslim-majority countries. On Sunday afternoon, four Democratic members of the House of Representatives arrived at Dulles airport in Virginia on word that people had been detained and denied access to lawyers.

“We have a constitutional crisis today,” representative Don Beyer wrote on Twitter. “Four members of Congress asked CBP officials to enforce a federal court order and were turned away.”
 jkarran 30 Jan 2017
In reply to baron:

> Isn't the second amendment designed to stop a tyrannical government subjugating the people?

Sure when both parties were armed with muskets and pitchforks, matched for size and capability... when one side has satellites, helicopter gunships and control of communication channels then what good is your basement full of semi-automatic rifles, empty beer tins and moth-eaten taxidermy?

> Talk of subservience fails to take account of the fiercely independent nature of many US citizens.

I don't doubt their spirit. I do doubt their capability against state or federal forces and I do doubt they'd fight, far more likely they'll fall in behind 'their man'.
jk
baron 30 Jan 2017
In reply to jkarran:
I presume that your description of the 'militia' is deliberately damning to reinforce your argument and not to actually describe their capabilities.
You can't have a coup in the US without the support of individual states.
How likely is that?
 Bobling 30 Jan 2017
In reply to jkarran:

Hmmm, interesting thought just appeared in my head - is there scope for sections of the National Guard (or even regulars) defecting to a rebellion? They do have helicopter gunships, jets etc etc.

I am quite flabbergasted that we are even discussing this.
In reply to Bobling:

> Hmmm, interesting thought just appeared in my head - is there scope for sections of the National Guard (or even regulars) defecting to a rebellion? They do have helicopter gunships, jets etc etc.

Nah, they've all been sent to Balmedie to take care of the ramblers!

 colinakmc 30 Jan 2017
In reply to Hugh Cottam:

Everybody is going on about Trump being unfit for the job, but Bannon and Flynn are truly the ones to be concerned about. They're the real nazis and I'm sure they are aiming to dismantle the US constitution. And they're right at the heart of the security apparatus so of course legal challenges are going to be brushed aside.
2
 jonnie3430 30 Jan 2017
In reply to Bobling:

If the chief of the combined staff has been demoted from the security council, the forces aren't likely to be on trump's side.
 Big Ger 31 Jan 2017
In reply to Hugh Cottam:

Tin soldiers and Nixon coming
We're finally on our own
This summer I hear the drumming
Four dead in Ohio
Gotta get down to it
Soldiers are cutting us down
Should have been done long ago
What if you knew her
And found her dead on the ground
How can you run when you know?
 jkarran 31 Jan 2017
In reply to Bobling:
> Hmmm, interesting thought just appeared in my head - is there scope for sections of the National Guard (or even regulars) defecting to a rebellion? They do have helicopter gunships, jets etc etc.

No idea but I assume the two, potentially competing motivators would be survival and loyalty. Where the loyalty lies, I don't know, I don't know how various different types of American soldier are indoctrinated, I presume most ultimately owe their loyalty to each other and will follow their immediate command. Survival... that depends where everyone else's loyalty lies!

Hopefully sanity would prevail before anyone was forced to choose and a major crisis precipitated. It's hard to see how Trump's (and his team's) objectives, overt or covert could be met by precipitating that crisis given the very real chance they couldn't cool it down again once it got going. I'm still clinging to the hope he's just a f*ckwit who's out of his depth and floundering.

> I am quite flabbergasted that we are even discussing this.

I'm not especially. I wondered before his election what would happen if he actually tried to follow through on some of his more extreme pledges potentially in violation of the constitution or international law, whether he'd care (seemed unlikely), whether the professional heads of the services he'd require would obey or not and what would happen in the latter case. It seems we're finding out, Trump has little respect for law or process and he's willing to hollow out the management of services that stand in his way installing ideological or hungry yes-men where he can and leaving them effectively rudderless in their moment of crisis with no-one senior enough to resist him where he can't.
jk
Post edited at 09:45
OP Hugh Cottam 31 Jan 2017
In reply to colinakmc:

I basically agree though I'm not sure how unified Bannon and Flynn are. Bannon is the the real power broker here and by far the most dangerous. Now sitting on the National Security Council.
 Big Ger 31 Jan 2017
In reply to Bobling:
> I am quite flabbergasted that we are even discussing this.

I'm not. Sales of tinfoil beanies have rocketed since Trump was elected.
Post edited at 20:54
 Yanis Nayu 31 Jan 2017
In reply to Hugh Cottam:
Our monarchy isn't looking like a bad system at the moment...

New Topic
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Loading Notifications...