UKC

I have a pair of 7.5mm half/twin ropes and find it too way to scary to belay with regular belay devices (Petz reverso, Mammut alpine vader, BD ATC XP). Any recommended devices?

I would like one that has the a 'guide' mode. All I can find is Edelrid Micro Jul. I also know there was the Petzl Reversino and the DMM bugette, but both seems to be discontinued (and the Bugette does not have a guide mode).

In reply to tjin:

Mammut Smart Alpine?
CT Alpine Up?

You don't mention what you're using them for, but i'll assume winter climbing/Alpine routes.
Of those two above, i'd perhaps go for the Alpine Up myself, but they are quite bulky so if you're a weight weenie then perhaps the Mammut would be worth considering but seems to have mixed reviews?

I'm not a user of either so these are merely suggestions.

In reply to tjin:



I looked at this last year for precisely the same reason. Originally tried a bugette but quite frankly found it was even worse than my BD ATC Xp for friction. Tested it a few times and decided no way I would use it in anger.

Then got a micro Jul. Well it works but it really wrecks the karabiner its used with, and more worrying is really fussy about the krab its used with. Originally used it with an Edeleid HMS strike which I believe is the recommended krab for the micro Jul and it simply wouldn't lock off. After a bit of trial and error found it worked ok on an ancient 12mm round bar DMM HMS, and subsequently got a Wild Country Ascent HMS 12mm to go with it. That seems to work ok but still marks the krab quite badly.

Since then I got a Gravel Master Pro belay plate. That is rated down to 7.3mm and works pretty well. Used in standard mode I think it has more friction than the ATC but also has a funny T shaped projection to give extra friction which seems to work great with the thin ropes. Only complaint is that is it can sometimes be a bit of a faff to keep the rope in the extra friction position while paying out in a hurry, but its quick and easy to get it back in place.

Have to say I still haven't found the ideal solution, and while I appreciate the weight saving of the skinny ropes I'm not sure I'd get them again!

Lee

In reply to tjin:

Use a standard device (Reverso, Pivot) with two similar-sized carabiners in parallel, this changes the angle of the rope through the slot, increasing braking force.

Extending the device when abseiling sharpens the rope angle on the 'dead' side, increasing braking force, and makes it easier to hold the rope with both hands.

Some people advocate running the 'dead' rope in a Z through a carabiner on the harness and back up to another carabiner on the belay device. I've found twin carabiners in parallel works well enough not to need this.

Wear gloves: won't increase grip but will make any slip much less painful.

Finally, you can always loop the 'dead' rope around one thigh if you need extra friction in a hurry on a short abseil. Sturdy non-synthetic trousers recommended.

In reply to LG-Mark:

I've got a Smart Alpine and an CT Alpine Up, both capable of a good catch on skinny ropes. Of the two the Smart is marginally favourite as it's lighter and less fiddly. The CT gives a stronger catch in "click up" mode... if your gear can take the shock loading

In reply to tjin:
Buggette, works well on 7.8 sterling fusion photon
Light

In reply to tjin:

I used to use a Bugette but now use a Reverso, which actually generates a lot more friction. Ample friction with my 7.5mm ropes and I'm 90kg. If you're not getting on with a Reverso then you definitely won't get on with a Bugette. It also gets really hot on long abseils. I'm assuming your Reverso teeth are not worn?

In reply to tjin:

Well by the way my grivel plate handles my 8.5mm half ropes I would suggest you go with that! You can take your hands off when abbing and just sit there on my half ropes. It has guide mode plus a weird hook thingy for even more friction which surely is a joke.

This one: http://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/grivel-master-pro-belay-device-p270354

In reply to Mr. Lee:

Im pretty sure Jim Tit (who is quite the expert on these matters and has done a lot of testing) rates the buggette as one of the best thin rope devices in terms of holding force (and above the reverso and XP).

In reply to CurlyStevo:


Well that was back then!
I haven´ t tested the MicroJul, the MegaJul was so bad I didn´ t have any real interest. Down to 7.8mm (the smallest ropes I have) the Alpine Up and the ATC XP with several karabiners is the best I´ ve tried, the Alpine Up does the job as well but is kind of big and complicated and not really versatile so I use an XP with two or more karabiners as required. If I wanted guide mode (I don´ t) then I´ d use the Alpine Up after cutting half of it off. Belaying a second from the anchor I just use an Italian hitch anyway.

I just don't feel confident enough testing out the 7.5mm ropes used in half rope mode to test it out with a regular Reverso (i have a brand new one) or my more worn Mammut one. It just feel so scary thin and slick (brand new coated rope). Have not tried it woth two crabs.

Well i like the option to belay two seconders at the same time, had to belay two two seconders with Italian htiches. Well that was a terrible experience. (don't leave you belay device with the seconders...)

I totally forgot to check the Alpine up and the Mammut Smart Alpine. The Alpine up seems a bit expensive and heavy. Mammut's option seems interessting. I have used the regular smart and found it pretty easy to use.

In reply to tjin:

The microjul was designed for their thin twins. I've got one very little used and that I don't need - the Megajul works fine for me with the doubles I have. If you are interested message me. Yours for, say, a tenner.

In reply to tjin:

So they have officially stopped making the Bugette?

In reply to jimtitt:

With the xp do you just run two biners side by side clipped to the belay loop and both through the rope?

In reply to CurlyStevo:

Yes, that´ s the way. If nescessary you can add a third. The karabiners should be at least reasonably the same size and shape, I´ ve only tested using identical ones anyway.
If you add a karabiner without clipping it into the belay loop the friction is reduced.

In reply to tjin:



I tried the Smart Alpine with my ropes and it was not convincing and later testing showed the braking power was inadequate even though it is rated for 7.5mm ropes.

In reply to tjin:

I've got an old reversino for a 7.5mm twin rope I've got. It works very well, but I don't know if they are still available.

It may be stating the obvious, but if you end up choosing a relatively specialist device to work with the rope, buy two so you can make sure your partner also has one that works - they'll be holding you!

In reply to Exile:

Yeah, i already thought of that. I ordered 2 microjuls, but they answered that they only had one . Ohw well let's try it and then decide if the second will also be a microjul or something else. Atleast the incoming microjull was on sale.

In reply to jimtitt:



Just to emphasise what Jim is saying, i.e. that the second carabiner must go through the belay loop, here are some photos:
http://people.bath.ac.uk/dac33/high/6TheBelay.htm#thinropes

In reply to David Coley:

The caption says "Belaying with a single half rope. It is critical that both ropes are clipped to the belay loop (left image), or you will be reducing the friction, not adding to it." which should obviously read "both carabiners".