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Kurt Cobain would have been 50 today: Six reasons why we still love him
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-39005630
Still sounds great..
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-39005630
Still sounds great..
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In reply to dale1968:
Can't underestimate the effect that Nirvana had on the course of rock music. I smile when I think about all those goddawful hair metal bands that were just obliterated at the first CHNG K'CHNG on Teen Spirit.
"Oh, we're done now, aren't we?"
"Oh yes. Done and done."
Can't underestimate the effect that Nirvana had on the course of rock music. I smile when I think about all those goddawful hair metal bands that were just obliterated at the first CHNG K'CHNG on Teen Spirit.
"Oh, we're done now, aren't we?"
"Oh yes. Done and done."
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In reply to MonkeyPuzzle:
I think it's hard to separate Nirvana's influence from the cult that surrounded Cobain after his death. There were some good tunes but there were far superior bands around in the US at the time. Pixies were a far more influencial band, IMHO.
I think it's hard to separate Nirvana's influence from the cult that surrounded Cobain after his death. There were some good tunes but there were far superior bands around in the US at the time. Pixies were a far more influencial band, IMHO.
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In reply to dale1968:
I wonder what he'd have been doing today if he were alive and living clean and healthily.
He'd probably be guest-jamming with the E Street Band, and various other tired old gimmick guest spots
Let's throw this in randomly too just cos it was funny at the time
youtube.com/watch?v=FklUAoZ6KxY&
I wonder what he'd have been doing today if he were alive and living clean and healthily.
He'd probably be guest-jamming with the E Street Band, and various other tired old gimmick guest spots
Let's throw this in randomly too just cos it was funny at the time
youtube.com/watch?v=FklUAoZ6KxY&
Post edited at 13:04
In reply to planetmarshall:
I think you are fundamentally wrong here, the influence in the three or so years before his death was clear to anyone listening to music and going to gigs and clubs at that time.
I think you are fundamentally wrong here, the influence in the three or so years before his death was clear to anyone listening to music and going to gigs and clubs at that time.
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In reply to The New NickB:
Absolutely. From speaking with my older brother and his mates, through to older colleagues at work and everyone remembers rock music as being before and after Nevermind.
The Pixies were a massively influential Indie (in the original sense of the term) rock band, not least to Nirvana themselves, but Nevermind smashed alternative rock right into the mainstream, which paved the way for so many great bands who would otherwise have probably stayed on the university gig circuit. Nirvana were nearly everyone's gateway band into the underground.
Absolutely. From speaking with my older brother and his mates, through to older colleagues at work and everyone remembers rock music as being before and after Nevermind.
The Pixies were a massively influential Indie (in the original sense of the term) rock band, not least to Nirvana themselves, but Nevermind smashed alternative rock right into the mainstream, which paved the way for so many great bands who would otherwise have probably stayed on the university gig circuit. Nirvana were nearly everyone's gateway band into the underground.
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In reply to Blue Straggler:
Hard to imagine really - would we have had the Foo Fighters?
Even without being clean, but still alive, I do wonder how much longer Nirvana would've lasted as a band... Not many grunge/rock bands of that era maintained their success, and fewer still went on to work on successful new projects.
And I doubt they would've been happy to sit on their laurels and become their own tribute band.
I can't really imagine him guest-spotting for other bands, he was a good guitarist, but not really a solo-ist and I don't think he ever guest-vocalled for other bands at the time?
> I wonder what he'd have been doing today if he were alive and living clean and healthily
Hard to imagine really - would we have had the Foo Fighters?
Even without being clean, but still alive, I do wonder how much longer Nirvana would've lasted as a band... Not many grunge/rock bands of that era maintained their success, and fewer still went on to work on successful new projects.
And I doubt they would've been happy to sit on their laurels and become their own tribute band.
I can't really imagine him guest-spotting for other bands, he was a good guitarist, but not really a solo-ist and I don't think he ever guest-vocalled for other bands at the time?
In reply to planetmarshall:
Agreed. After The Smiths 'Indie' needed a kick up the arse and The Pixies were the band that did it (with assistance from 4AD's stable, including The Breeders). I think Nirvana's influence was massive in that it crashed the mainstream and managed to shift huge hair-metal bands like GnR and BonJovi to the 'has-been' category, with a single song.
Agreed. After The Smiths 'Indie' needed a kick up the arse and The Pixies were the band that did it (with assistance from 4AD's stable, including The Breeders). I think Nirvana's influence was massive in that it crashed the mainstream and managed to shift huge hair-metal bands like GnR and BonJovi to the 'has-been' category, with a single song.
In reply to The New NickB:
Well that's pretty patronising. It's not like I started listening to music yesterday.
I will clarify - influential, yes. But IMHO their influence was largely in popularizing alternative music and making it more commercially viable. By Cobain's own admission, he wasn't much of a musician, though as evident on 'Unplugged' (a far better record than Nevermind) he had a great voice. I think their musical influence is fairly limited, and these days you are far more likely to find modern bands citing Pixies or Sonic Youth as influences.
> I think you are fundamentally wrong here, the influence in the three or so years before his death was clear to anyone listening to music and going to gigs and clubs at that time.
Well that's pretty patronising. It's not like I started listening to music yesterday.
I will clarify - influential, yes. But IMHO their influence was largely in popularizing alternative music and making it more commercially viable. By Cobain's own admission, he wasn't much of a musician, though as evident on 'Unplugged' (a far better record than Nevermind) he had a great voice. I think their musical influence is fairly limited, and these days you are far more likely to find modern bands citing Pixies or Sonic Youth as influences.
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In reply to Durbs:
Indeed, your post pretty much says / elaborates upon what I was getting at. I think we would have had Foo Fighters or similar what with Grohl being a guitarist at heart and almost just "jobbing" as a drummer. Might have started later but as you say, Nirvana were not going to be churning out albums #5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10....
I'm sticking my neck out a bit here as I am not a devotee and don't know all the songs (don't know 25% of them!) but Nirvana's success meant that Cobain was running out of material - biggest rock star in the world can no longer wail about isolation and desolation, and if his health had improved, then what? Go political. Eddie Vedder had that covered, probably...
So. Voice for hire. Supergroup stuff like Audioslave, probably - and there you've already accurately said "fewer still went on to work on successful new projects."
Indeed, your post pretty much says / elaborates upon what I was getting at. I think we would have had Foo Fighters or similar what with Grohl being a guitarist at heart and almost just "jobbing" as a drummer. Might have started later but as you say, Nirvana were not going to be churning out albums #5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10....
I'm sticking my neck out a bit here as I am not a devotee and don't know all the songs (don't know 25% of them!) but Nirvana's success meant that Cobain was running out of material - biggest rock star in the world can no longer wail about isolation and desolation, and if his health had improved, then what? Go political. Eddie Vedder had that covered, probably...
So. Voice for hire. Supergroup stuff like Audioslave, probably - and there you've already accurately said "fewer still went on to work on successful new projects."
Post edited at 13:34
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In reply to Blue Straggler:
Nirvana's success seemed to play a large part in him shooting his face off, so, short of that, I imagine he would've found enough to sing about!
In Utero, their last 'proper' album was them at their peak. No indications on that record that he was running out of material and showed them back to more of their original noise/art rock stuff that was missing from Nevermind.
> Nirvana's success meant that Cobain was running out of material
Nirvana's success seemed to play a large part in him shooting his face off, so, short of that, I imagine he would've found enough to sing about!
In Utero, their last 'proper' album was them at their peak. No indications on that record that he was running out of material and showed them back to more of their original noise/art rock stuff that was missing from Nevermind.
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In reply to MonkeyPuzzle:
Fair enough. So there was still creativity then. Would you agree that Nirvana themselves probably would have not gone down the "churn out more and more Nirvana records" route or do you think they'd have managed to keep going and stay interesting and changing? Radiohead managed this but they always had more of a palette with which to play...
> In Utero, their last 'proper' album was them at their peak. No indications on that record that he was running out of material and showed them back to more of their original noise/art rock stuff that was missing from Nevermind.
Fair enough. So there was still creativity then. Would you agree that Nirvana themselves probably would have not gone down the "churn out more and more Nirvana records" route or do you think they'd have managed to keep going and stay interesting and changing? Radiohead managed this but they always had more of a palette with which to play...
In reply to Shani:
>After The Smiths 'Indie' needed a kick up the arse and The Pixies were the band that did it (with assistance from 4AD's stable, including The Breeders)
I agree with this to an extent, but to hang it all on the Pixies is probably not entirely accurate. There were a lot of bands back then. In Manchester you could go to gigs every night of the week and see 3 or 4 bands each night. There was the whole Madchester thing going on and similar scenes around the country. The Sub Pop label had some awesome artists. Nirvana were big fans of the Vaselines, Kurt even named his daughter after the lead singer.
If there hadn't been the grass roots support for exciting bands, perhaps Nirvana wouldn't have taken off. If the production hadn't been so good, they might not have taken off. And if the ending had been different, perhaps their legacy would have been different.
>After The Smiths 'Indie' needed a kick up the arse and The Pixies were the band that did it (with assistance from 4AD's stable, including The Breeders)
I agree with this to an extent, but to hang it all on the Pixies is probably not entirely accurate. There were a lot of bands back then. In Manchester you could go to gigs every night of the week and see 3 or 4 bands each night. There was the whole Madchester thing going on and similar scenes around the country. The Sub Pop label had some awesome artists. Nirvana were big fans of the Vaselines, Kurt even named his daughter after the lead singer.
If there hadn't been the grass roots support for exciting bands, perhaps Nirvana wouldn't have taken off. If the production hadn't been so good, they might not have taken off. And if the ending had been different, perhaps their legacy would have been different.
Post edited at 14:55
In reply to Blue Straggler:
I expect that Dave Grohl would've still left to form his own band, Krist Novoselic would've still left to go into politics and Kurt probably would've ended up going solo. He loved the blues and basically wanted to be Leadbelly, so I reckon Unplugged would've been a pre-cursor to him becoming a hoary alt-blues singer. It's nice to dream.
Radiohead have Jonny Greenwood, so were never going to be 'just' a rock band.
I expect that Dave Grohl would've still left to form his own band, Krist Novoselic would've still left to go into politics and Kurt probably would've ended up going solo. He loved the blues and basically wanted to be Leadbelly, so I reckon Unplugged would've been a pre-cursor to him becoming a hoary alt-blues singer. It's nice to dream.
Radiohead have Jonny Greenwood, so were never going to be 'just' a rock band.
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In reply to dread-i:
Good point. I was in Manchester from '91 - but you'll understand why my mind is a bit hazy about those days!
> >After The Smiths 'Indie' needed a kick up the arse and The Pixies were the band that did it (with assistance from 4AD's stable, including The Breeders)I agree with this to an extent, but to hang it all on the Pixies is probably not entirely accurate. There were a lot of bands back then. In Manchester you could go to gigs every night of the week and see 3 or 4 bands each night. There was the whole Madchester thing going on and similar scenes around the country. The Sub Pop label had some awesome artists. Nirvana were big fans of the Vaselines, Kurt even named his daughter after the lead singer. If there hadn't been the grass roots support for exciting bands, perhaps Nirvana wouldn't have taken off. If the production hadn't been so good, they might not have taken off. And if the ending had been different, perhaps their legacy would have been different.
Good point. I was in Manchester from '91 - but you'll understand why my mind is a bit hazy about those days!
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In reply to planetmarshall:
No, more a question about your age.
> Well that's pretty patronising. It's not like I started listening to music yesterday.
No, more a question about your age.
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In reply to MonkeyPuzzle:
Yup, could see him and courtney doing similar stuff to what Mark Lanegan & Isobell Campbell now put out
Yup, could see him and courtney doing similar stuff to what Mark Lanegan & Isobell Campbell now put out
In reply to planetmarshall:
But where would the Pixies have been without Sonic Youth ? And where would Sonic Youth have been without the Stooges ?
Nirvana were huge before Cobain's death thanks to Teen Spirit and Nevermind, but it was a very rapid rise.
One reason could be that they appealed both to indie and metal/rock audiences - it was the only record that my wife and I both owned when we started going out
> I think it's hard to separate Nirvana's influence from the cult that surrounded Cobain after his death. There were some good tunes but there were far superior bands around in the US at the time. Pixies were a far more influencial band, IMHO.
But where would the Pixies have been without Sonic Youth ? And where would Sonic Youth have been without the Stooges ?
Nirvana were huge before Cobain's death thanks to Teen Spirit and Nevermind, but it was a very rapid rise.
One reason could be that they appealed both to indie and metal/rock audiences - it was the only record that my wife and I both owned when we started going out
In reply to dale1968:
not sure what it was like here, but I was into indie music in a big way growing up in Ireland, saw Sonic Youth, supported by Nirvana in Dublin etc, but then dance music made its way over from the UK/Spain etc and almost everyone I knew ditched indie for dance music, we stopped going to gigs and went clubbing instead. Kurt may have changed rock/indie music but it all seemed to take a back seat for years.
not sure what it was like here, but I was into indie music in a big way growing up in Ireland, saw Sonic Youth, supported by Nirvana in Dublin etc, but then dance music made its way over from the UK/Spain etc and almost everyone I knew ditched indie for dance music, we stopped going to gigs and went clubbing instead. Kurt may have changed rock/indie music but it all seemed to take a back seat for years.
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In reply to planetmarshall:
A point of interest - Cobain expressly pointed out that SLTS sounded like 'The Pixies' to him, and the Pixies themselves used to joke about their music being 'loud, quiet, loud, repeat'!
I recall Radiohead being called a poor man's Nirvana in the press, and then Muse being called a poor man's Radiohead.
> and these days you are far more likely to find modern bands citing Pixies or Sonic Youth as influences.
A point of interest - Cobain expressly pointed out that SLTS sounded like 'The Pixies' to him, and the Pixies themselves used to joke about their music being 'loud, quiet, loud, repeat'!
I recall Radiohead being called a poor man's Nirvana in the press, and then Muse being called a poor man's Radiohead.
In reply to RX-78:
Sound like a great gig ! Mind you I once saw the Jesus and Mary Chain supported by Blur, Dinosaur Jr and My Bloody Valentine and it was shite !!
I think a lot of people did.
Went to a gig last week (the brilliant Estrons) and whilst the band was in their mid-20s the average age of the audience was more like mid 40s. It seems to me the heyday for gigs was mid 70s to mid 90s and has been superseded by the superclubs and the big festivals
> saw Sonic Youth, supported by Nirvana in Dublin
Sound like a great gig ! Mind you I once saw the Jesus and Mary Chain supported by Blur, Dinosaur Jr and My Bloody Valentine and it was shite !!
> almost everyone I knew ditched indie for dance music, we stopped going to gigs and went clubbing instead.
I think a lot of people did.
Went to a gig last week (the brilliant Estrons) and whilst the band was in their mid-20s the average age of the audience was more like mid 40s. It seems to me the heyday for gigs was mid 70s to mid 90s and has been superseded by the superclubs and the big festivals
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In reply to RX-78:
Have to agree. The drugs were much better with clubbing.
Although Nevermind gave rock/punk/metal a great kick up the arse, and In Utero showed potential for development, I don't think Cobain had much more to offer, as he says;
> but then dance music made its way over from the UK/Spain etc and almost everyone I knew ditched indie for dance music, we stopped going to gigs and went clubbing instead.
Have to agree. The drugs were much better with clubbing.
Although Nevermind gave rock/punk/metal a great kick up the arse, and In Utero showed potential for development, I don't think Cobain had much more to offer, as he says;
> "I'm a spokesman for myself. It just so happens that there's a bunch of people that are concerned with what I have to say. I find that frightening at times because I'm just as confused as most people. I don't have the answers for anything. "
In reply to Big Ger:
I think arguably the end of Nirvana was the end rather than the beginning for good alt-rock/indie. Drugs better in clubs for shizzle though!
In Utero is a masterpiece in my opinion.
I think arguably the end of Nirvana was the end rather than the beginning for good alt-rock/indie. Drugs better in clubs for shizzle though!
In Utero is a masterpiece in my opinion.
Post edited at 23:17
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In reply to Removed User:
They were brilliant albums with some outstanding tracks and in an MTV age, really good supporting videos.
I have no idea why I don't listen to those albums more, yet Superunknown and Badmotorfinger are on virtually constant rotation in the car etc.
Probably heresy but I think Superunknown is 'the' album of the 90s.
> I think arguably the end of Nirvana was the end rather than the beginning for good alt-rock/indie. Drugs better in clubs for shizzle though!In Utero is a masterpiece in my opinion.
They were brilliant albums with some outstanding tracks and in an MTV age, really good supporting videos.
I have no idea why I don't listen to those albums more, yet Superunknown and Badmotorfinger are on virtually constant rotation in the car etc.
Probably heresy but I think Superunknown is 'the' album of the 90s.
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In reply to planetmarshall:
I was playing this, (link below) in the car recently and at the obvious point, my friend said, "I was enjoying that until it turned into a blatant Nirvana rip-off." Quite impressive ripping off something from about 16 years in the future.
youtube.com/watch?v=aBJGBk3mR4o&
I was playing this, (link below) in the car recently and at the obvious point, my friend said, "I was enjoying that until it turned into a blatant Nirvana rip-off." Quite impressive ripping off something from about 16 years in the future.
youtube.com/watch?v=aBJGBk3mR4o&
In reply to Chris the Tall:
One of my regrets is going to lots of great gigs but being in such a state as to remember little!
One of my regrets is going to lots of great gigs but being in such a state as to remember little!
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