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Hi all,
I did a quick search of the forums. Was surprised that not much came up on this topic.
TL;DR -
I just wanted to ask if there are many other people who suffer from this and how they deal with it?
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Recently I've been considering medication because all the other advice just doesn't help a climber.
Would be good to share experiences and awareness. It's one of my most limiting factors in improving my climbing.
Every time I climb with someone new I feel like they think I'm just making excuses. Spring in Spain and I still have icy fingers after climbing a 30m 6b+ and 6c+ In succession...
Luckily some of my partners are super understanding and let me climb a route right before getting on a project (7c for me atm).
I found myself choosing routes that have boulders starts with a no hands rest. Otherwise I have no chance.
Hand warmers do nothing. Wearing a lot of clothes does nothing.
Heavy Cardio seems to be the only way.
Take it easy, icy people!
I did a quick search of the forums. Was surprised that not much came up on this topic.
TL;DR -
I just wanted to ask if there are many other people who suffer from this and how they deal with it?
------------------------------
Recently I've been considering medication because all the other advice just doesn't help a climber.
Would be good to share experiences and awareness. It's one of my most limiting factors in improving my climbing.
Every time I climb with someone new I feel like they think I'm just making excuses. Spring in Spain and I still have icy fingers after climbing a 30m 6b+ and 6c+ In succession...
Luckily some of my partners are super understanding and let me climb a route right before getting on a project (7c for me atm).
I found myself choosing routes that have boulders starts with a no hands rest. Otherwise I have no chance.
Hand warmers do nothing. Wearing a lot of clothes does nothing.
Heavy Cardio seems to be the only way.
Take it easy, icy people!
8
In reply to AymanC:
I suffer from Raynaud's and haven't found a solution.
Unfortunately, given the nature of how the syndrome 'works' additional clothing on the perhipheral areas affected, hands for example, doesn't necessarily solve the problem of the arteries that supply them contracting more quickly than they should when exposed to cold.
Strangely, my Raynaud's can come on even during mild weather.
I suffer from Raynaud's and haven't found a solution.
Unfortunately, given the nature of how the syndrome 'works' additional clothing on the perhipheral areas affected, hands for example, doesn't necessarily solve the problem of the arteries that supply them contracting more quickly than they should when exposed to cold.
Strangely, my Raynaud's can come on even during mild weather.
5
In reply to AymanC:
https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/info/search.php?forum=0&dates=1&n...
The search function can be a bit pesky. There's quite a few threads in here
https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/info/search.php?forum=0&dates=1&n...
The search function can be a bit pesky. There's quite a few threads in here
In reply to AymanC:
I don't have any useful info for you really, but yep - I get some symptoms. I'm sure there are many more. I've never looked into medication or anything like that, but it'll be interesting to see how this thread develops.
For me it's much more of a problem with toes than fingers. When it's cold obviously, but also sometimes when it isn't particularly chilly. It pretty much limits me to indoor climbing through the colder months, and even there it's a nuisance. (Fortunately I'm a bit nesh all round, so don't really mind staying indoors through the winter).
I haven't really found a short-cut, just have to let the toes freeze and then thaw out again (after which I'm fine for the rest of the session). A good aerobic warm up speeds up the process considerably, when I manage to overcome my laziness and walk/jog to the wall instead of driving the extra time it takes is usually worth it.
I wear socks in my climbing shoes, and take a spare pair when it's cold to swap out for the soggy ones when the toes have thawed. (Bizarrely, I find my feet get very sweaty while toes are frozen solid. Really helps to put dry socks on when the blood begins to flow again and the paradoxical sweating stops.)
I don't have any useful info for you really, but yep - I get some symptoms. I'm sure there are many more. I've never looked into medication or anything like that, but it'll be interesting to see how this thread develops.
For me it's much more of a problem with toes than fingers. When it's cold obviously, but also sometimes when it isn't particularly chilly. It pretty much limits me to indoor climbing through the colder months, and even there it's a nuisance. (Fortunately I'm a bit nesh all round, so don't really mind staying indoors through the winter).
I haven't really found a short-cut, just have to let the toes freeze and then thaw out again (after which I'm fine for the rest of the session). A good aerobic warm up speeds up the process considerably, when I manage to overcome my laziness and walk/jog to the wall instead of driving the extra time it takes is usually worth it.
I wear socks in my climbing shoes, and take a spare pair when it's cold to swap out for the soggy ones when the toes have thawed. (Bizarrely, I find my feet get very sweaty while toes are frozen solid. Really helps to put dry socks on when the blood begins to flow again and the paradoxical sweating stops.)
In reply to AymanC:
My ex suffers from Raynaud's and gets really miserable. She has tried chemical hand warmers in her gloves but with only limited success. She had to give up skiing decades ago and now avoids holidaying in cold climes.
My ex suffers from Raynaud's and gets really miserable. She has tried chemical hand warmers in her gloves but with only limited success. She had to give up skiing decades ago and now avoids holidaying in cold climes.
In reply to AymanC:
I am sitting in my office experiencing it now as I type!
@Plyometrics - My fingers can go stick white on a cool summers day in the shade with a breeze on me. Bizarrely, after assuming I wouldn't be able to climb in cold weather, I discovered after doing a few routes with numb fingers that I develop the hot aches where my fingers feel as though each one has a heart beating inside it. A little uncomfortable at first but a welcome surprise.
As others have said, a good amount of cardio can help. I used to get it horribly in my toes when cycle racing 25+ years ago but only experience it in my fingers in recent years. I would love to find a solution to this. Interestingly, in terms of gender split Reynaud's favours women 80/20.
It would be interesting to hear on sufferers build weight etc to see if particulars builds etc are more prone. I'm 5' 10", 63kg with approx. 6-7% body fat. I'm confident the body fat has little to no bearing, but might be worth considering to see if there is a correlation.
I am sitting in my office experiencing it now as I type!
@Plyometrics - My fingers can go stick white on a cool summers day in the shade with a breeze on me. Bizarrely, after assuming I wouldn't be able to climb in cold weather, I discovered after doing a few routes with numb fingers that I develop the hot aches where my fingers feel as though each one has a heart beating inside it. A little uncomfortable at first but a welcome surprise.
As others have said, a good amount of cardio can help. I used to get it horribly in my toes when cycle racing 25+ years ago but only experience it in my fingers in recent years. I would love to find a solution to this. Interestingly, in terms of gender split Reynaud's favours women 80/20.
It would be interesting to hear on sufferers build weight etc to see if particulars builds etc are more prone. I'm 5' 10", 63kg with approx. 6-7% body fat. I'm confident the body fat has little to no bearing, but might be worth considering to see if there is a correlation.
In reply to AymanC:
I started suffering from numbness/ tingling and white/purple fingers. This has been on and off for about a year now.
Strange thing is this tends to occur 90% of the time at the same time each day , this is about 4:30-5 o'clock in the afternoon . It's also only the 3 middle fingers on each hand.
Warming them/moving them does slowly help but not before I get quite down and annoyed at the fact I cant function properly when it starts up.
As soon as it returns to normal I'm fine again and I forget all about it until the next time it starts.
I don't seem to get this while climbing though. Very odd.
TWS
I started suffering from numbness/ tingling and white/purple fingers. This has been on and off for about a year now.
Strange thing is this tends to occur 90% of the time at the same time each day , this is about 4:30-5 o'clock in the afternoon . It's also only the 3 middle fingers on each hand.
Warming them/moving them does slowly help but not before I get quite down and annoyed at the fact I cant function properly when it starts up.
As soon as it returns to normal I'm fine again and I forget all about it until the next time it starts.
I don't seem to get this while climbing though. Very odd.
TWS
In reply to Chive Talkin\':
That sounds a bit like it might be a carpal tunnel thing rather than Reynauds.
That sounds a bit like it might be a carpal tunnel thing rather than Reynauds.
2
In reply to Fishmate:
My ex is 8st 10lb, very slim build, and 5' 5" tall. She has suffered from Raynaud's most of her adult life.
> It would be interesting to hear on sufferers build weight etc to see if particulars builds etc are more prone.
My ex is 8st 10lb, very slim build, and 5' 5" tall. She has suffered from Raynaud's most of her adult life.
In reply to AymanC:
I suffer too, I tend to find that it is cold wind, rather than cold weather itself that triggers it, and once i get a really bad attack the only way to reverse it is standing in a hot shower until the hotaches subside.
I read up on the medication a while back and decided it wasn't for me, as the options were calcium channel blockers (normally used for high blood pressure), GTN (normally used for angina with the main side effect being sudden drop in blood pressure) and SSRIs (normally used as an antidepressent). Since I didn't react well to SSRIs when i had them years ago for depression, and my blood pressure is generally on the lowish side, I figure none of them would work very well for me.
I suffer too, I tend to find that it is cold wind, rather than cold weather itself that triggers it, and once i get a really bad attack the only way to reverse it is standing in a hot shower until the hotaches subside.
I read up on the medication a while back and decided it wasn't for me, as the options were calcium channel blockers (normally used for high blood pressure), GTN (normally used for angina with the main side effect being sudden drop in blood pressure) and SSRIs (normally used as an antidepressent). Since I didn't react well to SSRIs when i had them years ago for depression, and my blood pressure is generally on the lowish side, I figure none of them would work very well for me.
1
In reply to AymanC:
My gf suffers from it - generally limited to a few fingers from the first or second knuckle to the finger tip. The demarcation between pink and white is extremely well defined. We've not found a solution but it can be quite debilitating even in mild weather. She's 6ft and slim. It does seem that Raynauds doesn't affect chubby people as much as skinny ones from people I know, but I suppose most climbers tend to be towards the leaner end of the spectrum.
My gf suffers from it - generally limited to a few fingers from the first or second knuckle to the finger tip. The demarcation between pink and white is extremely well defined. We've not found a solution but it can be quite debilitating even in mild weather. She's 6ft and slim. It does seem that Raynauds doesn't affect chubby people as much as skinny ones from people I know, but I suppose most climbers tend to be towards the leaner end of the spectrum.
In reply to deepsoup:
That would sort of explain it .
I broke both wrists in the past ( at different times ) One very badly that needed external fixation and a carpel tunnel operation (it was pointing the wrong way) .
So I've already had a carpel tunnel on it about 14 years ago. After that I got a bone infection in the pin site about 7 years later. This then required 2 surgeries to clean and biopsy the infection and then pack with antibiotic beads , these where later removed after a couple of months. Oh and a course of very strong antibiotics to take orally.
The surgeon was amazed at the strength I've got considering the injury sustained and wanted to publish my case in a journal. I never got a call to sign off on it though.
The other was a small fracture in the socket or inner surface. I was told I may get osteoarthritis in it eventually. (I'm hoping for some advance in medical science before then though).
Funny but all this happened several year ago, while the symptoms I have now only started about a year ago.
> That sounds a bit like it might be a carpal tunnel thing rather than Reynauds.
That would sort of explain it .
I broke both wrists in the past ( at different times ) One very badly that needed external fixation and a carpel tunnel operation (it was pointing the wrong way) .
So I've already had a carpel tunnel on it about 14 years ago. After that I got a bone infection in the pin site about 7 years later. This then required 2 surgeries to clean and biopsy the infection and then pack with antibiotic beads , these where later removed after a couple of months. Oh and a course of very strong antibiotics to take orally.
The surgeon was amazed at the strength I've got considering the injury sustained and wanted to publish my case in a journal. I never got a call to sign off on it though.
The other was a small fracture in the socket or inner surface. I was told I may get osteoarthritis in it eventually. (I'm hoping for some advance in medical science before then though).
Funny but all this happened several year ago, while the symptoms I have now only started about a year ago.
In reply to AymanC:
I suffer from Raynauds in my hands (along with arthritis, nice combination) I suffer most days, but the worst are cold damp days, breezy days, or sudden variations in temperature, like walking in and out of shadow, even in 25"C in Spain (I wore gloves to try to even out the temperature.). The more constant I can keep the temperature, whatever the level the quicker it will fade. I have also found that if I raise my core temperature faster than my hands, or vice verse it gets worse, so have stopped with hand warmers. To add extra detail I have a fairly low heart rate of about 48 resting, fairly low blood pressure, and a high anaerobic threshold. I am 67, male, 6ft, 73kg with 16% body fat, with a low kidney function. In all other respects I am mostly healthy apart from odd infections doing the rounds. I am part of a medical research project (not for raynauds but they do monitor it) so being a nosy sod I enquire about all aspects of myself (without getting hypochondriacal!)
To summaries, in my case I try to keep my core and hand temp similar and avoid sudden temp changes. This seems to alleviate the symptoms, but they are still there and a bloody nuisance!
I suffer from Raynauds in my hands (along with arthritis, nice combination) I suffer most days, but the worst are cold damp days, breezy days, or sudden variations in temperature, like walking in and out of shadow, even in 25"C in Spain (I wore gloves to try to even out the temperature.). The more constant I can keep the temperature, whatever the level the quicker it will fade. I have also found that if I raise my core temperature faster than my hands, or vice verse it gets worse, so have stopped with hand warmers. To add extra detail I have a fairly low heart rate of about 48 resting, fairly low blood pressure, and a high anaerobic threshold. I am 67, male, 6ft, 73kg with 16% body fat, with a low kidney function. In all other respects I am mostly healthy apart from odd infections doing the rounds. I am part of a medical research project (not for raynauds but they do monitor it) so being a nosy sod I enquire about all aspects of myself (without getting hypochondriacal!)
To summaries, in my case I try to keep my core and hand temp similar and avoid sudden temp changes. This seems to alleviate the symptoms, but they are still there and a bloody nuisance!
In reply to Mowglee:
I'd be a counter-example there - not quite as chubby as my enormous BMI would suggest, but skinny I most certainly am not. 180cm/94kg (about 5'10" and best part of 15stone). Body fat somewhere between 15-20% I think.
> It does seem that Raynauds doesn't affect chubby people as much as skinny ones from people I know, but I suppose most climbers tend to be towards the leaner end of the spectrum.
I'd be a counter-example there - not quite as chubby as my enormous BMI would suggest, but skinny I most certainly am not. 180cm/94kg (about 5'10" and best part of 15stone). Body fat somewhere between 15-20% I think.
2
In reply to Mowglee:
This is interesting as I started to suffer the symptoms I described when I lost around 10 Kg via a ketosis diet . I'm now 69 Kg and 13% body fat. it all started around then .
Interesting to know if its related to that as well as the injury's .
> My gf suffers from it - generally limited to a few fingers from the first or second knuckle to the finger tip. The demarcation between pink and white is extremely well defined. We've not found a solution but it can be quite debilitating even in mild weather. She's 6ft and slim. It does seem that Raynauds doesn't affect chubby people as much as skinny ones from people I know, but I suppose most climbers tend to be towards the leaner end of the spectrum.
This is interesting as I started to suffer the symptoms I described when I lost around 10 Kg via a ketosis diet . I'm now 69 Kg and 13% body fat. it all started around then .
Interesting to know if its related to that as well as the injury's .
In reply to Chive Talkin\':
That all sounds horrendous. If you do have carpal tunnel problems, I suppose it could be exacerbated by those injuries, or maybe it might actually have nothing to do with all that and it's just a coincidence. I hope I'm not coming across as at all knowledgeable here, I really know nothing about anything medical.
I get (fortunately quite mild) carpal tunnel symptoms to go with the reynauds, and they came on seemingly out of the blue a few years back. If it gets worse I guess I'll have to go looking for a proper diagnosis and some treatment, but it seems to have been pretty stable for a long while now and as it stands it's quite liveable-with.
> Funny but all this happened several year ago, while the symptoms I have now only started about a year ago.
That all sounds horrendous. If you do have carpal tunnel problems, I suppose it could be exacerbated by those injuries, or maybe it might actually have nothing to do with all that and it's just a coincidence. I hope I'm not coming across as at all knowledgeable here, I really know nothing about anything medical.
I get (fortunately quite mild) carpal tunnel symptoms to go with the reynauds, and they came on seemingly out of the blue a few years back. If it gets worse I guess I'll have to go looking for a proper diagnosis and some treatment, but it seems to have been pretty stable for a long while now and as it stands it's quite liveable-with.
2
In reply to AymanC:
If you go down the Medication route ask about intravenous iloprost not for everyone but It's a one off treatment every 6 months or so and works well for a good range of people, with none of the side effects of a lot of the SSRI based meds.
If you go down the Medication route ask about intravenous iloprost not for everyone but It's a one off treatment every 6 months or so and works well for a good range of people, with none of the side effects of a lot of the SSRI based meds.
In reply to Chive Talkin\':
If it's a new thing for you, then it's probably not Raynaud's, which is mostly genetic, and starts young. If you haven't already done so, go and see your GP.
If it's a new thing for you, then it's probably not Raynaud's, which is mostly genetic, and starts young. If you haven't already done so, go and see your GP.
3
1
In reply to captain paranoia:
Primary Raynauds...yes, generally starts early in life and is "at least partly hereditary", however secondary Raynaud's which is associated with a lot of chronic health conditions and Autoimmune disorders starts later, and can also be a very early symptom of yet to be diagnosed Autoimmune disorders.
> If it's a new thing for you, then it's probably not Raynaud's, which is mostly genetic, and starts young. If you haven't already done so, go and see your GP.
Primary Raynauds...yes, generally starts early in life and is "at least partly hereditary", however secondary Raynaud's which is associated with a lot of chronic health conditions and Autoimmune disorders starts later, and can also be a very early symptom of yet to be diagnosed Autoimmune disorders.
Post edited at 17:32
1
In reply to SAF:
Yep -- hereditary in my case. Mum had it, I've got it, and my daughter has it.
OK once I'm warmed up and doing vigorous exercise, but on a cold day it is pretty bad when I get in the car - even if I've started off with fairly warm gloves. Grasping or touching anything fairly cold if i'm not particularly active just seems to drain the warmth from my fingers.
My feet often get really cold just after getting in to bed in winter. Cool cotton sheets just seem to suck the life out of my poor little piggies.
Stangely enough I rarely get really cold fingers or toes when out on my bike in the winter - unless I get a right soaking!
Yep -- hereditary in my case. Mum had it, I've got it, and my daughter has it.
OK once I'm warmed up and doing vigorous exercise, but on a cold day it is pretty bad when I get in the car - even if I've started off with fairly warm gloves. Grasping or touching anything fairly cold if i'm not particularly active just seems to drain the warmth from my fingers.
My feet often get really cold just after getting in to bed in winter. Cool cotton sheets just seem to suck the life out of my poor little piggies.
Stangely enough I rarely get really cold fingers or toes when out on my bike in the winter - unless I get a right soaking!
1
In reply to Lord of Starkness:
Me too, for much of the year if i don't have a hot shower before bed my feet feel so cold I struggle to get to sleep.
> .My feet often get really cold just after getting in to bed in winter. Cool cotton sheets just seem to suck the life out of my poor little piggies.
Me too, for much of the year if i don't have a hot shower before bed my feet feel so cold I struggle to get to sleep.
In reply to AymanC:
Hi, I have it too.
It's worst when I'm doing mundane things like drying up or shopping in the cold section of the supermarket.
I find it's more painful after a skin intensive climbing session.
I rarely get it running in bad weather or ski touring (unless I stop for too long). I seem to be able to anticipate it coming and try to be proactive to stop it being an issue. I don't let it stop me climbing outdoors!
I have recently been icing an injured pulley using the Lewis reaction (Dave McLeod method) and have noticed an improvement on that hand. Don't know if it's just a perceived improvement or a real improvement but I would be interested to know if anyone else has found this?
Hi, I have it too.
It's worst when I'm doing mundane things like drying up or shopping in the cold section of the supermarket.
I find it's more painful after a skin intensive climbing session.
I rarely get it running in bad weather or ski touring (unless I stop for too long). I seem to be able to anticipate it coming and try to be proactive to stop it being an issue. I don't let it stop me climbing outdoors!
I have recently been icing an injured pulley using the Lewis reaction (Dave McLeod method) and have noticed an improvement on that hand. Don't know if it's just a perceived improvement or a real improvement but I would be interested to know if anyone else has found this?
In reply to AymanC:
I've had it since I was a little kid. In my case, the trigger is a change in temperature - I have to wear gloves when I'm grocery shopping in the freezer aisle - so touching cold rock can be troublesome! I've tried taping hand warmers to my wrists on the recommendation of ukc and found it to help, as does getting my core temperature up before I climb.
Years ago, I came across an article that suggested eating more green leafy vegetables can help some sufferers - something to do with calcium and magnesium. I've taken a cal-mag supplement over winter, and it seems to have helped, but I had good reason to think I could be deficient in both minerals.
To add to the database of data points, I have low blood pressure (80/50), am 5'9 and 9 1/2 stone, but with absolutely no idea what my body fat percentage is.
I've had it since I was a little kid. In my case, the trigger is a change in temperature - I have to wear gloves when I'm grocery shopping in the freezer aisle - so touching cold rock can be troublesome! I've tried taping hand warmers to my wrists on the recommendation of ukc and found it to help, as does getting my core temperature up before I climb.
Years ago, I came across an article that suggested eating more green leafy vegetables can help some sufferers - something to do with calcium and magnesium. I've taken a cal-mag supplement over winter, and it seems to have helped, but I had good reason to think I could be deficient in both minerals.
To add to the database of data points, I have low blood pressure (80/50), am 5'9 and 9 1/2 stone, but with absolutely no idea what my body fat percentage is.
1
In reply to AymanC:
I get something like this but only in my left hand (the right one's fine) it started happening after I'd been prescribed beta blockers, I don't know if this is related?
I get something like this but only in my left hand (the right one's fine) it started happening after I'd been prescribed beta blockers, I don't know if this is related?
In reply to SAF:
If you are the disliker, my main point was to encourage TWS to go to the GP. Don't you think that's a good suggestion, given the need to rule out those possible non-genetic causes of what might be secondary Raynaud's...?
If you are the disliker, my main point was to encourage TWS to go to the GP. Don't you think that's a good suggestion, given the need to rule out those possible non-genetic causes of what might be secondary Raynaud's...?
2
In reply to AymanC:
As a cyclist of many many years I developed Raynauds only later in life (maybe 50-ish) and was aware that my Mum also suffered often (a keen rambler even in winter), adding to the evidence for an hereditary link. I only get it in my fingers, and for years even mild-weather bike rides would produce white fingers and numbness for at least 30 min after starting. As some suggest, it is the change in temperature that causes the problem, rather than cold per se. I found gloves useless and only hard work on the bike (raising core temperature) would slowly bring back the blood supply. Then I found what works for me at least - before a bike ride in cool/cold weather I put my hands and wrists in water as hot as I can stand, and for several minutes, until my hands are glowing pink! It can be a bit painful, but I no longer have any problem. Even in very cold weather I don't get white fingers, although after a couple of hours I get the normal 'cold toes and fingers' that are inevitable on a bike in frosty weather. I sometimes forget to pre-heat, or misjudge the temperature, and the price is immediate Raynauds - try it, it might work for you!
As a cyclist of many many years I developed Raynauds only later in life (maybe 50-ish) and was aware that my Mum also suffered often (a keen rambler even in winter), adding to the evidence for an hereditary link. I only get it in my fingers, and for years even mild-weather bike rides would produce white fingers and numbness for at least 30 min after starting. As some suggest, it is the change in temperature that causes the problem, rather than cold per se. I found gloves useless and only hard work on the bike (raising core temperature) would slowly bring back the blood supply. Then I found what works for me at least - before a bike ride in cool/cold weather I put my hands and wrists in water as hot as I can stand, and for several minutes, until my hands are glowing pink! It can be a bit painful, but I no longer have any problem. Even in very cold weather I don't get white fingers, although after a couple of hours I get the normal 'cold toes and fingers' that are inevitable on a bike in frosty weather. I sometimes forget to pre-heat, or misjudge the temperature, and the price is immediate Raynauds - try it, it might work for you!
2
In reply to SAF:
This problem could also be a result of using vibrating equipment in industry etc, an industrial desease called 'vibration white finger', shows very similar symptoms to Raynauds, which has a genetic origin. I was advised against the medication route as the side effects could be worse than the problem. I have developed coping strategies and also now use it as a convenient excuse when I can't get up a route!
This problem could also be a result of using vibrating equipment in industry etc, an industrial desease called 'vibration white finger', shows very similar symptoms to Raynauds, which has a genetic origin. I was advised against the medication route as the side effects could be worse than the problem. I have developed coping strategies and also now use it as a convenient excuse when I can't get up a route!
In reply to latestarter:
I've seen that suggested as a 'retraining' cure; in a cold environment, wear little clothing, but stick your hands/feet into water as hot as you can stand, so that you don't get cold/actually get too hot. Done repeatedly, and regularly, under controlled conditions, it is supposed to be a long-term cure.
I haven't tried it...
> before a bike ride in cool/cold weather I put my hands and wrists in water as hot as I can stand, and for several minutes, until my hands are glowing pink!
I've seen that suggested as a 'retraining' cure; in a cold environment, wear little clothing, but stick your hands/feet into water as hot as you can stand, so that you don't get cold/actually get too hot. Done repeatedly, and regularly, under controlled conditions, it is supposed to be a long-term cure.
I haven't tried it...
1
In reply to latestarter:
I've had it since i was a kid and so has my sister. We're both skinny. I often get it driving or cycling in cold weather - i think it is the pressure at the contact points that sets it off. It was a bugger when paragliding in the winter. I used to get horrendous hot-aches just after landing. However, i did notice that having suffered, if i went flying again a short time later, my hands would be much better.
For winter climbing, i now wear cut-down wooly socks over my wrists and that definitely reduces the likelihood of white finget.
I've had it since i was a kid and so has my sister. We're both skinny. I often get it driving or cycling in cold weather - i think it is the pressure at the contact points that sets it off. It was a bugger when paragliding in the winter. I used to get horrendous hot-aches just after landing. However, i did notice that having suffered, if i went flying again a short time later, my hands would be much better.
For winter climbing, i now wear cut-down wooly socks over my wrists and that definitely reduces the likelihood of white finget.
Wow. Thank you everyone for your responses! Never expected so many people.
Looks like a few people have mentioned change in temp to be a big trigger. I never thought of that.
Mundane tasks like shopping and hanging washing are definitley a pain for me too, but cycling in all but summer conditions I wear gloves.
Those things I can live with (although sometimes my ability to pull brake levers is less than encouraging!).
But it's the climbing that really suffers.
I'm gonna try taping handwarmers, but I've found using them normally isn't enough. As soon as I you touch rock the heat is sapped from your hands.
To add to the 'data'. I'm 5'9", 10 stone.
I thought it could be connected to a nerve entrapment I have but that's only in one arm and I've had the problem since before I was a climber. As a musician it ruins dexterity and makes my hands feel like slow motion. It's strange like only half the signals get through.
I use the bowl of hot water method before practice but it's not practical at the crag!
One of the biggest problems it causes is flash pump. With no feedback I don't know how hard I'm pulling.
Interestingly I don't get it nearly so badly in my feet.
Looks like a few people have mentioned change in temp to be a big trigger. I never thought of that.
Mundane tasks like shopping and hanging washing are definitley a pain for me too, but cycling in all but summer conditions I wear gloves.
Those things I can live with (although sometimes my ability to pull brake levers is less than encouraging!).
But it's the climbing that really suffers.
I'm gonna try taping handwarmers, but I've found using them normally isn't enough. As soon as I you touch rock the heat is sapped from your hands.
To add to the 'data'. I'm 5'9", 10 stone.
I thought it could be connected to a nerve entrapment I have but that's only in one arm and I've had the problem since before I was a climber. As a musician it ruins dexterity and makes my hands feel like slow motion. It's strange like only half the signals get through.
I use the bowl of hot water method before practice but it's not practical at the crag!
One of the biggest problems it causes is flash pump. With no feedback I don't know how hard I'm pulling.
Interestingly I don't get it nearly so badly in my feet.
1
In reply to AymanC:
I think that what happens to me is Raynaud's. It is only in the fingers, but what happens can be out of all proportion to the depth or duration of any cold stimulus. If I get something out of the freezer, for example a bag of peas, or even a pack of chicken thighs from the fridge, which I then handle for a minute or two, in my warm kitchen, my fingers go numb and white, and stay that way for 20 minutes or so, just like they would if I were rolling snow balls with bare hands for that time. Then they tingle and sometimes hurt as they either a) warm up or, more accurately it often seems to me, b) forget that they had been momentarily ever so slightly cold.
If I do anything seriously(?) cold in normal life, like scrape a windscreen on a cold morning, then I have to wear gloves or my fingers will be numb all the way to work.
I think that what happens to me is Raynaud's. It is only in the fingers, but what happens can be out of all proportion to the depth or duration of any cold stimulus. If I get something out of the freezer, for example a bag of peas, or even a pack of chicken thighs from the fridge, which I then handle for a minute or two, in my warm kitchen, my fingers go numb and white, and stay that way for 20 minutes or so, just like they would if I were rolling snow balls with bare hands for that time. Then they tingle and sometimes hurt as they either a) warm up or, more accurately it often seems to me, b) forget that they had been momentarily ever so slightly cold.
If I do anything seriously(?) cold in normal life, like scrape a windscreen on a cold morning, then I have to wear gloves or my fingers will be numb all the way to work.
Post edited at 18:23
1
In reply to AymanC:
There was a thread on here about this a couple of years ago. I wrote to take vitamin E and my post didn't get a reply so I wrote a blog about it this time.
http://www.colinmoody.com/Site/Blog/Entries/2017/5/5_Vitamin_E.html
There was a thread on here about this a couple of years ago. I wrote to take vitamin E and my post didn't get a reply so I wrote a blog about it this time.
http://www.colinmoody.com/Site/Blog/Entries/2017/5/5_Vitamin_E.html
In reply to AymanC:
I get this, not as bad as some people but a lot worse than most. Warming up the fingers and staying warm (whole body and hands) is key. Indoors I start off on some easy boulder problems in rapid auccession, then do a few medium difficulty ones with rests in between. The idea being to 'shock' the fingers into working hard, then the blood returns while resting. Doing just easy stuff isn't enough.
So in your case, if you RP 7c, warming up on 6b+ or 6c probably isn't hard enough to get your fingers working sufficiently hard. May be do one of those and then get on your project and do it bolt to bolt with decent rests.
Outdoors it depends on what's available but similar principles apply if possible. Also avoid going to cold crags which are in the wind and don't see the sun. I actively seek out warmer crags unless the valley temperature is in the high teens or above (even then I won't go to shady mountain crags unless it's a pretty hot day). Plus I don't rock climb at all from about mid October until about the end of March. Simply not worth the bother. That's ok for me as I can go winter climbing, dry tooling and alpine spring climbing or ski touring instead.
When not climbing, if it's chilly I wear thin or medium weight gloves, including for belaying.
Avoid overgripping and shake out as much as possible. I find this is particularly important when winter climbing.
I get this, not as bad as some people but a lot worse than most. Warming up the fingers and staying warm (whole body and hands) is key. Indoors I start off on some easy boulder problems in rapid auccession, then do a few medium difficulty ones with rests in between. The idea being to 'shock' the fingers into working hard, then the blood returns while resting. Doing just easy stuff isn't enough.
So in your case, if you RP 7c, warming up on 6b+ or 6c probably isn't hard enough to get your fingers working sufficiently hard. May be do one of those and then get on your project and do it bolt to bolt with decent rests.
Outdoors it depends on what's available but similar principles apply if possible. Also avoid going to cold crags which are in the wind and don't see the sun. I actively seek out warmer crags unless the valley temperature is in the high teens or above (even then I won't go to shady mountain crags unless it's a pretty hot day). Plus I don't rock climb at all from about mid October until about the end of March. Simply not worth the bother. That's ok for me as I can go winter climbing, dry tooling and alpine spring climbing or ski touring instead.
When not climbing, if it's chilly I wear thin or medium weight gloves, including for belaying.
Avoid overgripping and shake out as much as possible. I find this is particularly important when winter climbing.
In reply to AymanC:
I get Raynauds in my hands and feet (bit of an inconvenience given that I love winter fell running!) but I've found that keeping my core warm really helps to stop the onset of symptoms. I'm generally quite a sweaty runner so I was reluctant to do it, but just one extra layer seems to be enough to keep my core warm enough without feeling overheated.
Buffalo mitts are great for keeping hands warm when standing around or only moving slowly and wool socks are good for keeping feet toasty even when wet.
I get Raynauds in my hands and feet (bit of an inconvenience given that I love winter fell running!) but I've found that keeping my core warm really helps to stop the onset of symptoms. I'm generally quite a sweaty runner so I was reluctant to do it, but just one extra layer seems to be enough to keep my core warm enough without feeling overheated.
Buffalo mitts are great for keeping hands warm when standing around or only moving slowly and wool socks are good for keeping feet toasty even when wet.
Post edited at 23:06
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