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What are your thoughts on this?
I'm undecided of what to make of it.
I'm undecided of what to make of it.
6
In reply to The Ice Doctor:
We could really do with some more detail?
Is this a new form of commercial glamping or a team training for a big climb?
> What are your thoughts on this?
> I'm undecided of what to make of it.
We could really do with some more detail?
Is this a new form of commercial glamping or a team training for a big climb?
2
In reply to timjones:
Testing by local company...I recognise one...its a Mooral
Testing by local company...I recognise one...its a Mooral
Post edited at 18:40
In reply to Jim 1003:
Personally, I can't see any problem with that and I wouldn't see any problem with climbers using crags to practice their ledge camping.
Commercial glamping trips would be a bigger issue IMO.
> Testing by local company...I recognise one...
Personally, I can't see any problem with that and I wouldn't see any problem with climbers using crags to practice their ledge camping.
Commercial glamping trips would be a bigger issue IMO.
16
In reply to The Ice Doctor:
Why not? Better to practice and tweak the system not far from home. Stunning pic.
Doing this on Roaches Upper Teir might cause a rumpus though.Although my ancient Kinder guide describes Kinder as a good training area for the greater ranges. Downfall portaledge anyone?
Why not? Better to practice and tweak the system not far from home. Stunning pic.
Doing this on Roaches Upper Teir might cause a rumpus though.Although my ancient Kinder guide describes Kinder as a good training area for the greater ranges. Downfall portaledge anyone?
6
In reply to The Ice Doctor:
I wonder what anchors they were using? Hope they were natural.
I wonder what anchors they were using? Hope they were natural.
3
1
In reply to timjones:
Just out of interest, what's the distinction?
> Personally, I can't see any problem with that and I wouldn't see any problem with climbers using crags to practice their ledge camping.
> Commercial glamping trips would be a bigger issue IMO.
Just out of interest, what's the distinction?
3
In reply to Jim 1003:
Thankyou. At least I know what it's all about now. My initial reaction was,' seems a little OTT', or is this a training exercise.
I just wondered? if it will encourage loads of other people to follow it's example.
Thankyou. At least I know what it's all about now. My initial reaction was,' seems a little OTT', or is this a training exercise.
I just wondered? if it will encourage loads of other people to follow it's example.
Post edited at 21:35
4
In reply to Deadeye:
Commercial would imply that people would be running ledge trips for profit.
I'd say that this is quite clearly different to climbers doing it off their own bat using their own skills.
Commercial would imply that people would be running ledge trips for profit.
I'd say that this is quite clearly different to climbers doing it off their own bat using their own skills.
2
In reply to The Ice Doctor:
I can see the problem now.
Cheap portaledges and the popularity of indoor walls result in dogging being taken to the next level. By 2020 every crag in the UK will be littered with spent nitrous oxide cylinders and rubber. Slab climbs will be mostly inaccessible due to gallons of spilled lube.
A couple of high profile* fatalities caused by over energetic bouncing and poorly placed gear will result in an immoral panic. Health and safety concerns result in the retrobolting of all accessible rock faces in the UK by 2025.
By the middle of the century I expect that all the crags will belong to international hotel chains & the shagging ledges will be made of concrete with shelf service and "indoor" plumbing.
It's the thin edge of the wedge I'm telling you!
*including the obligatory cabinet minister in search of high altitude badgers.
I can see the problem now.
Cheap portaledges and the popularity of indoor walls result in dogging being taken to the next level. By 2020 every crag in the UK will be littered with spent nitrous oxide cylinders and rubber. Slab climbs will be mostly inaccessible due to gallons of spilled lube.
A couple of high profile* fatalities caused by over energetic bouncing and poorly placed gear will result in an immoral panic. Health and safety concerns result in the retrobolting of all accessible rock faces in the UK by 2025.
By the middle of the century I expect that all the crags will belong to international hotel chains & the shagging ledges will be made of concrete with shelf service and "indoor" plumbing.
It's the thin edge of the wedge I'm telling you!
*including the obligatory cabinet minister in search of high altitude badgers.
Post edited at 22:52
31
2
In reply to The Ice Doctor:
Maybe they're practising for work ...
http://www.gaiaadventures.co.uk/individual-courses/cliff-camping/cliff-camp...
Not bad money for a night's work!
Maybe they're practising for work ...
http://www.gaiaadventures.co.uk/individual-courses/cliff-camping/cliff-camp...
Not bad money for a night's work!
In reply to The Ice Doctor:
Would that be a problem?
> Thankyou. At least I know what it's all about now. My initial reaction was,' seems a little OTT', or is this a training exercise.
> I just wondered? if it will encourage loads of other people to follow it's example.
Would that be a problem?
1
In reply to timjones:
Like people guiding routes for profit?
> Commercial would imply that people would be running ledge trips for profit.
> I'd say that this is quite clearly different to climbers doing it off their own bat using their own skills.
Like people guiding routes for profit?
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1
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1
In reply to Jim 1003:
Fortunately we aren't subjected to anywhere near that level of commercialisation in the UK.
> A lot more intrusive, have a wander up the Hornli ridge...
Fortunately we aren't subjected to anywhere near that level of commercialisation in the UK.
1
1
In reply to Lusk:
What an crappy thing to be running. Seems to be this person behind it: https://en-gb.facebook.com/sam.farnsworth.3
Which crags are being infested for this commercial activity I wonder?
> Maybe they're practising for work ...
What an crappy thing to be running. Seems to be this person behind it: https://en-gb.facebook.com/sam.farnsworth.3
Which crags are being infested for this commercial activity I wonder?
10
In reply to Rob Parsons:
I'm wondering what your objection is based on. If they're getting in the way of other outdoor users or leaving detritus, I could understand. But it seems to me that they're offering urban dwellers an outdoor experience that could help change their outlook and approach to outdoor recreation. This could positively affect their respect for natural places and potentially lead them to be more outdoorsy and more healthy in general. Is the idea that somebody may be making a few quid out of it such a big problem for you?
> What an crappy thing to be running.
I'm wondering what your objection is based on. If they're getting in the way of other outdoor users or leaving detritus, I could understand. But it seems to me that they're offering urban dwellers an outdoor experience that could help change their outlook and approach to outdoor recreation. This could positively affect their respect for natural places and potentially lead them to be more outdoorsy and more healthy in general. Is the idea that somebody may be making a few quid out of it such a big problem for you?
16
In reply to The Ice Doctor:
It is highly unlikely that they will turn up on the crags that I frequent but I can imagine that if I had psyched myself up for a big lead on Gogarth and found these guys obstructing the route I would be a bit miffed. Perhaps they operate a dusk to dawn occupancy policy so as not to clash with climbers. Also I posted earlier about the anchors they are using, if they are natural & taken away then there is no issue but if they bolted faces for them I think it would be a different matter.
It is highly unlikely that they will turn up on the crags that I frequent but I can imagine that if I had psyched myself up for a big lead on Gogarth and found these guys obstructing the route I would be a bit miffed. Perhaps they operate a dusk to dawn occupancy policy so as not to clash with climbers. Also I posted earlier about the anchors they are using, if they are natural & taken away then there is no issue but if they bolted faces for them I think it would be a different matter.
Post edited at 19:46
In reply to john arran:
You reckon? Maybe - and, if so, that might be a good outcome, I agree.
To me the thing sounds like 'thrill-seeking' for its own sake - in the same vein as, for example, bungee-jumping.
> ... This could positively affect their respect for natural places and potentially lead them to be more outdoorsy and more healthy in general. ...
You reckon? Maybe - and, if so, that might be a good outcome, I agree.
To me the thing sounds like 'thrill-seeking' for its own sake - in the same vein as, for example, bungee-jumping.
Post edited at 20:11
3
8
In reply to keith-ratcliffe:
Seems like the commercial operators mentioned here are somewhere on Rhoscolyn - at present, anyway.
> ... I can imagine that if I had psyched myself up for a big lead on Gogarth ...
Seems like the commercial operators mentioned here are somewhere on Rhoscolyn - at present, anyway.
Post edited at 20:13
2
In reply to Rob Parsons:
This is a quite a strange post. While portaledge camping might not be for you. I see no reason to attack it or the people running it.
Sam a great guy, a good climber and an inspirational instructor . I'm not sure why you have decided to link to his personal Facebook page.
I've been out watch Sam work and he is extremely conscientious about the impact he has on the environment. His group will not be leaving any rubbish up the crag.
They use a discreet corner of Roscolyn which is used by group the vast majority of the time.
I'm not sure why you have a problem with the commercial nature of this. I presume you have to work for a living?
Tom
> What an crappy thing to be running. Seems to be this person behind it: https://en-gb.facebook.com/sam.farnsworth.3
This is a quite a strange post. While portaledge camping might not be for you. I see no reason to attack it or the people running it.
Sam a great guy, a good climber and an inspirational instructor . I'm not sure why you have decided to link to his personal Facebook page.
I've been out watch Sam work and he is extremely conscientious about the impact he has on the environment. His group will not be leaving any rubbish up the crag.
> Which crags are being infested for this commercial activity I wonder?
They use a discreet corner of Roscolyn which is used by group the vast majority of the time.
I'm not sure why you have a problem with the commercial nature of this. I presume you have to work for a living?
Tom
19
1
In reply to The Ice Doctor:
This thread has added to the number of 'spin off' activities from climbing that have become experiences of their own. I once met someone who described himself as an abseiler - he had never climbed up anything but he had descended some pretty impressive pieces of rock. I note that you can have a 'Cairngorm Snowhole Experience' for a not so small fee. The portaledge night out is just another example of activities that have a wider context in climbing/mountaineering becoming an end in themselves.
Of course one element is the commercial imperative - £450 for a night on Gogarth is not inconsiderable, but I am still making my mind up about some of these peripherals. I see John Arran's point about it being a lead in to a wider outdoor involvement but it also smacks of an organised quick buzz rather than personal absorption in the outdoors that drives many people in the wider climbing populus.
What do others think of this?
This thread has added to the number of 'spin off' activities from climbing that have become experiences of their own. I once met someone who described himself as an abseiler - he had never climbed up anything but he had descended some pretty impressive pieces of rock. I note that you can have a 'Cairngorm Snowhole Experience' for a not so small fee. The portaledge night out is just another example of activities that have a wider context in climbing/mountaineering becoming an end in themselves.
Of course one element is the commercial imperative - £450 for a night on Gogarth is not inconsiderable, but I am still making my mind up about some of these peripherals. I see John Arran's point about it being a lead in to a wider outdoor involvement but it also smacks of an organised quick buzz rather than personal absorption in the outdoors that drives many people in the wider climbing populus.
What do others think of this?
2
3
In reply to The Ice Doctor:
You are more negative and moany than my misses is on a day to day basis. That's saying something. Will you ever post something light hearted on this forum?
You are more negative and moany than my misses is on a day to day basis. That's saying something. Will you ever post something light hearted on this forum?
12
In reply to The Ice Doctor:
Spot on.
I thought that was the reason for your question?
For me the answer is it depneds on who is doing it and whether their actions are likely to create significant extra pressure on the mountain environment.
> Whether it is a problem or not is entirely personal.
Spot on.
I thought that was the reason for your question?
For me the answer is it depneds on who is doing it and whether their actions are likely to create significant extra pressure on the mountain environment.
In reply to Rob Parsons:
Hi Rob,
I run GA with Sam. It's a shame you see it that way. I think it's worth me saying- rest assured, we won't be doing this anywhere else.
We use a crag which is near Rhoscolyn, but not at the main crag. We chose it as it's unfrequented, I've only ever seen the odd instructional group there.
The ledge is put up in the evening, and is away swiftly in the morning. We use nuts and cams to suspend it, which are then removed. We have a system to make sure nothing is left behind. Sam and I care as much about these places as everyone else.
Cheers,
Will
Hi Rob,
I run GA with Sam. It's a shame you see it that way. I think it's worth me saying- rest assured, we won't be doing this anywhere else.
We use a crag which is near Rhoscolyn, but not at the main crag. We chose it as it's unfrequented, I've only ever seen the odd instructional group there.
The ledge is put up in the evening, and is away swiftly in the morning. We use nuts and cams to suspend it, which are then removed. We have a system to make sure nothing is left behind. Sam and I care as much about these places as everyone else.
Cheers,
Will
27
1
In reply to The Ice Doctor:
I think you will all find portaledges are put up all over the UK and there is no impact, no rock is harmed, and no traces left. I have used mine and I know of several other owners have overnighted around the country. Get over it one and all. If someone makes some money out of it, good on them, like any other paid climbing activity, profit is not a crime, or perhaps climbing instructors should all be amateurs, climbing walls should all be free, and gear should be handed out for nothing. P.s I know Sam and can confirm where and when he does his portaledge camping ventures.
I think you will all find portaledges are put up all over the UK and there is no impact, no rock is harmed, and no traces left. I have used mine and I know of several other owners have overnighted around the country. Get over it one and all. If someone makes some money out of it, good on them, like any other paid climbing activity, profit is not a crime, or perhaps climbing instructors should all be amateurs, climbing walls should all be free, and gear should be handed out for nothing. P.s I know Sam and can confirm where and when he does his portaledge camping ventures.
5
In reply to Rob Parsons:
The impact that setting a ledge up well has is the same as a trad lead.
Why shouldn't this experience be open to more people to have a glimpse into our world?!
And of course a professional mountaineering instructor is going to charge for that service!!!
Don't be too quick to judge and publicly name reputable professional instructors on a subject you're clearly way out of touch with.
I am biased as I also run guided Portaledging, but you can rest assured those of us that work in this industry care more for the environment than most, and will do everything within our power to minimise our impact on it and instil this ethos on those we take out.
The price may seem expensive but the cost of the kit, insurance, qualifications and phenomenal, and time and effort to get the personal experience to run these activities considerable...
You owe the guys at Gaia and Sam and Will an apology...
The impact that setting a ledge up well has is the same as a trad lead.
Why shouldn't this experience be open to more people to have a glimpse into our world?!
And of course a professional mountaineering instructor is going to charge for that service!!!
Don't be too quick to judge and publicly name reputable professional instructors on a subject you're clearly way out of touch with.
I am biased as I also run guided Portaledging, but you can rest assured those of us that work in this industry care more for the environment than most, and will do everything within our power to minimise our impact on it and instil this ethos on those we take out.
The price may seem expensive but the cost of the kit, insurance, qualifications and phenomenal, and time and effort to get the personal experience to run these activities considerable...
You owe the guys at Gaia and Sam and Will an apology...
13
1
In reply to Rob Parsons:
Not crappy at all. More inspirational in my opinion. Crags aren't being 'infested' by this, it's super small scale and likely to remain so.
A few weeks ago I turned up at an abseil station at Gogarth and found it to be rammed with climbers all wanting to climb. Inconsiderate or what as they were on 'our' route!
Well done Sam for breaking the mould and showing initiative, good luck with the portaledging, looks ace. Hope all's well
Not crappy at all. More inspirational in my opinion. Crags aren't being 'infested' by this, it's super small scale and likely to remain so.
A few weeks ago I turned up at an abseil station at Gogarth and found it to be rammed with climbers all wanting to climb. Inconsiderate or what as they were on 'our' route!
Well done Sam for breaking the mould and showing initiative, good luck with the portaledging, looks ace. Hope all's well
2
In reply to Stu McInnes:
I'm not sure what you would like me to apologise for.
Not liking the activity? No - I think it's a stupid gimmick. (I accept that you and others disagree; that's fair enough.)
Referencing the people doing it? I don't see any problem there - in fact in that respect, I've just given them a free plug.
So far, the replies counter to mine have all come from those with a commercial interest in this kind of thing.
Back to Gimmer: are we clear yet what that was about? If it's individuals setting up ledges (either for a laugh, or to practice in preparation for a real trip), then no problem. It it's a commercial operation, then that's a different matter.
> You owe the guys at Gaia and Sam and Will an apology...
I'm not sure what you would like me to apologise for.
Not liking the activity? No - I think it's a stupid gimmick. (I accept that you and others disagree; that's fair enough.)
Referencing the people doing it? I don't see any problem there - in fact in that respect, I've just given them a free plug.
So far, the replies counter to mine have all come from those with a commercial interest in this kind of thing.
Back to Gimmer: are we clear yet what that was about? If it's individuals setting up ledges (either for a laugh, or to practice in preparation for a real trip), then no problem. It it's a commercial operation, then that's a different matter.
6
4
In reply to Rob Parsons:
I guess people would like you to apologise as the tone of your comment is pretty crappy. The phrasing suggests that they're somehow up to something nefarious and they're damaging the crags which is obviously not the case.
What difference does it make whether the people up on Gimmer (not Gaia by the sounds of it) were there as individuals or as a commercial operation?
I guess people would like you to apologise as the tone of your comment is pretty crappy. The phrasing suggests that they're somehow up to something nefarious and they're damaging the crags which is obviously not the case.
What difference does it make whether the people up on Gimmer (not Gaia by the sounds of it) were there as individuals or as a commercial operation?
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2
In reply to The Ice Doctor:
I saw an advert for EE the other day showing people in portaledges watching films on 4G to show its coverage. maybe it was this set-up that was spotted?
Whether it's commercial or not, as long as they're not behaving like that TV crew at Bosigran was reported acting, I haven't got an opinion on commercial use of our playground.
I saw an advert for EE the other day showing people in portaledges watching films on 4G to show its coverage. maybe it was this set-up that was spotted?
Whether it's commercial or not, as long as they're not behaving like that TV crew at Bosigran was reported acting, I haven't got an opinion on commercial use of our playground.
In reply to GHawksworth:
It was an EE 4G marketing exercise:
http://www.real-adventure.co.uk/blog/read/4gee-community-cinema-club
It was an EE 4G marketing exercise:
http://www.real-adventure.co.uk/blog/read/4gee-community-cinema-club
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