UKC

Yesterday I was climbing at Chairladder crag in Cornwall. After having a lovely time on Pegasus in the morning, I climbed Pendulum Chimney (S 4b) in the afternoon. At least, part of it!

I almost got to the fourth belay ledge (I think) before thinking that it was a bit weird that a sea gull was not flying away. I made one more move upwards and saw a chick. Bugger.

The option was to ab off from there, probably having to do this two times and leaving a large amount of gear behind, then having to prussick up the ab rope, as the tide was too far in to scramble round the base. I quickly decided against this and found an easy ish traverse over to the mushroom stance on South Face Direct, then finished up that at VS 4c.

This was possible because I can climb that grade. If I couldn't, I would probably have continued through the ledge, stringing the 3rd and 4th pitches together.

But how unpleasant would it have been (both for me and the birds) to climb through? What would have happened? Has anyone got experience of this?

Just for info, the crag is clear on the RAD as the only protected birds are the choughs.

In reply to knighty: it's illegal to interfere with any bird nest. Regardless of species.

In reply to knighty:


Seabirds normally get very distressed if you approach their nests, e.g. standing close to them on the same ledge as them, or even worse stepping over them.

In reply to knighty:

Knuckle dusters for sea gulls highly recommended

In reply to Cheese Monkey:

Depends on the species Cheese Monkey. Some are less numerous than others. Also depends if you class Fulmars and Kittiwakes as gulls or not. They are both definitely not on the knuckle duster list. The rest you could argue are but I would still prefer not to disturb them myself. As La benya says it is illegal to do so.

In reply to Cheese Monkey:

Herring gulls are in decline.

In reply to bonebag:

Straight onto the knives then? I can see you don't mess about

In reply to abseil:

So, legal issues aside, what actually would happen?

Clearly, I knew that it would be distressing for the birds, because I went off route to avoid them. But given that I was on the easiest route on what is a very serious cliff in a very serious situation, what would you have done (had you not known the adjacent route and its grade and that you could climb it)?

In reply to knighty:
I would prioritise my safety above a bird being distressed. If safe/possible to retreat sensibly then do that. If not prepare for a fight most birds will have a good go. Worth considering battling a sea gull on the crux of a route may be more dangerous than a dangerous retreat...

Obviously best not to get in that situation in the first place by checking the route out beforehand but climb enough sea cliffs and it's almost inevitable unfortunately

In reply to knighty:


What actually would happen? -- The birds can abandon the nest meaning the young starve to death; and the young if any can dive off the nest and die.

I am not of course pointing a finger at you in any way. -- What would I have done? Like Cheese Monkey I certainly wouldn't risk my safety or that of my partner/s, but I would try to stay away during breeding and nesting seasons.

In reply to knighty:

What happens depends a lot on the species. Variously:
- Vomit - Fulmar vomit is absolutely godawful stuff and besides the unpleasantness on the day, you have to wash the clothes involved in the incident again and again and again and... until the smell is faint enough that people don't cross the street to avoid you. Also a friend recently got a good face full you might get dual eye infections which will be extremely unpleasant, not to mention painful (not had this personally but a mate on Facebook recently posted some photos and they look grim as hell).
- Peck your eyes out - I learned about this in a documentary by a chap called Alfred, always be on the lookout.
- Noise - Lots of noise, nothing to worry about really.
- Sh*ting / dive bombing - Parents do this to dissuade people and protect chicks, the upside is it's unlikely to go in your eye, the downside is you get covered in bird shi*. Some will also bang you on the head when they dive-bomb, even with a helmet on it's going to be quite offputting.

All in all basically just all the worst parts of having a newborn baby.

Personally I try to avoid climbing through birds for all the above reasons but if it turns out one is in the way that I didn't see, I just get on with it. There is quite an art to fulmars in particular who can be persuaded to disgorge all their loads before you have to pass them if you are patient and agile. Waving a hand over a ledge before pulling your head over is a good idea too, hands are more resilient than faces.

In reply to knighty:

Oh, and urban legend has it that the very best way to deal with a fulmar is to grab it by the neck the instant you see it before it has time to puke and throw it off the cliff.

In reply to knighty:

I think it depends on the specie of bird, the proximity of the nest and how practically able to reverse the route. I backed off a route because of a wood pigeon nest a few months ago that was right on the route and unavoidable. It seemed selfish to continue. I've backed off Burning Giraffe at Wintours leap because there were Herring Gull nests on the traverse line and likely a fight in waiting. That said, I encountered a Herring Gull nest on Gogarth Upper Tier a few years ago and with a couple of metres girth the bird stuck around without any signs of aggression or distress.

https://flic.kr/p/EGRFhq

Had it been another specie of bird then it would have certainly flown, although the best approach would have been not to end up in that situation in the first place. Sometimes it can be hard to detect a nest in advance though if the eggs have not yet hatched as there is not much flying around the nest as a result. I think the most important thing though is the welfare of the climbers and birds involved and so long as that is the priority rather than an onsight, or even finishing the route, then my conscience is clear. The route is not going anywhere after all.

In reply to La benya:

Thats not strictly true. It is certainly illegal to disturb schedule 1 nests.

https://ww2.rspb.org.uk/our-work/our-positions-and-casework/our-positions/w...

In reply to Offwidth:

In England and Wales it appears to be limited to schedule 1 birds, slightly different law in Scotland however. Interfering with any nesting bird could be illegal (provision 1 bb)

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1981/69/section/1

In reply to Pina:

When I said climb through, I wasn't going to be dismantling a nest or nicking any eggs on my way past!

In reply to knighty:

Obstructing or interfering with a nest would be the issue though.

In reply to knighty:

The seagulls welfare should take priority, it is their home territory, their needs come before ours in that situation. Why not just have the same respect for it as if it was a Peregrine, a pigeon, or a sparrow.
Climb around, or take a diversion if possible. It's a bit hard when on multi pitch. Note on your log if u do that, about the birds nest, advising others to leave the route until after July, when most chicks should have flown.

In reply to JMarkW:

That's because we're getting better at not leaving food out for them on landfill sites, and large trawlers often discharge their guts underwater instead of over the side these days. Gulls living in Jersey fly 28 miles up to our landfill site here in Guernsey for their breakfast daily now they don't have a landfill site. I suspect gull populations are actually artificially inflated by man-provided food sources and they're just returning to normal levels as those resources disappear.
To the OP - Seagull parents don't really care about you climbing over their nest - yes, they'll divebomb you, but once you're gone they'll come back. This is our experience here, but we're not using the same crag every weekend which may cause the gulls to get fed up and go elsewhere. The chicks/eggs are more of an issue though, if the parents are kept away long enough there's a risk the chicks or eggs will suffer from the sun, and big chicks will run off the ledge in panic sometimes. Not ideal, but not unusual - we regularly find chicks at the bottom of the cliffs that have come off their ledge without human intervention.

In reply to knighty:

I've climbed past seagull nests and nowt has happened apart from me bricking it when popping my head over a ledge and coming face to face with a peeved gull that just sat in its nest eyeballing me. I've also had freinds repeatedly dive bombed with no nest in site.
I think thers some funny footage that was on here a while back of people climbing on st johns head negoting bird infested sandy breaks