UKC

https://www.instagram.com/p/BWXFZ2FlHWQ/

I wonder if this video could have been sent back to the 1980s what climbers back then would have made of it?

I think I'd have found it interesting but unrelated or even irrelevant to the sport I was involved in; closer to gymnastics or something else.

Maybe the only person to have taken it seriously would have been Johnny Dawes. Whereas most people were thinking about how to get up bits of rock Johnny seemed to be visualising human movement possibilities, without the limitations of geology. It's amazing how climbing has evolved in just 3 decades. Was Johnny the most far sighted visionary of the climbing world?

And what will climbing look like 3 decades from now?

In reply to stp:


This is what Jakob Schubert said recently......... 
 

Many have complaint about the trend with less steep and parkour route setting in Boulder World Cups which we also did see especially in the qualification in Vail. Jakob Schubert has expressed it nice on his Facebook. (c) Wilhelm Heiko

"3 out of 5 boulders were slabs and only one boulder was pure fitness on holds, some might say that's the new style of bouldering, but in my opinion it's bad setting. Bouldering shouldn't only be about standing on your feet.. When you are done with Qualification and feel like you haven't even climbed today since no boulders were exhausting at all it just feels wrong to me. ??I like to fight in boulders, feel the physical strain. Sure slabby boulders are part of the game but they shouldn't be the most important thing in my opinion. Crimps, slopers, pinches, big moves, campusing, jumps, coordination, toe hooks, heel hooks, power endurance,...there are so many things, that's what I love about this sport. ??To be fair, it was difficult for the routesetters because the wall in Vail is not great and they did a very good job in both semis and finals. But still I wanna shout out to all routesetters to try to set more diverse in the future in all rounds and especially also in Qualifiers, I don't think the randomness that some Qualification rounds had are good for this sport. there shouldn't be only crimpy boulders nor only volume boulders nor only slabby ones.. lately holds have fallen out of favor and huge volumes that look cool have taken over, but a mix of both of them would be the best in my opinion. ??The style of a lot of boulders has nothing to do with rock climbing anymore, that's a fact, whether you think it's good or bad is a matter of opinion. In my opinion some funky boulders are definitely fun, but I don't think we should forget the origins of this sport! Peace!"
 
 

In reply to Xavierpercy:

You would never have heard Johnny complaining about too many slabs

In reply to stp:

Reminds of the bit in stone monkey when Dawes is running around the holds in the old Plas-y-Brenin wall.

In reply to stp:


Almost certainly yes. I remember seeing him on the old Poly wall in Sheffield in the 1980s, leaping from one wall of a corner across to another and back again. I couldn't believe it. A stone monkey indeed.

If one goes back a decade further, I'd credit John Syrett not only for the popularity of climbing walls but also for anticipating the three-dimensional, highly gymnastic style of bouldering which we have today. That front page photo in Mountain of him on Encore was the first time I'd seen anyone heel hooking. The frog position on the crux of Wall of Horrors and the shoulder-high toe/heel lock on Jokers Wall were radically different from the prevailing style.

Have been working on an article about exactly this but (as ever!) tend to doubt my conclusions. Maybe best to get it on here and let people decide for themselves.

I think John Syrett and Johnny Dawes were both climbing visionaries and thankfully (after all the scary routes he's done) we've got one still with us.

Mick

In reply to stp:

I'd call it a compromise. Is it great to look at, yes. Is it great to do, I imagine so. Is it climbing, well its not what I do at the weekend as that's called puntering. Will it help itself to be sold to mass media outlets, that's what those invested in it are hoping for I would've thought.

In reply to stp:
Its all just movement innit? I mean, where do the boundaries between climbing, athletics, gymnastics, yoga and dance meet-crossover-intertwine?

Not anywhere near me obviously, but I hope you get my point....

In reply to stp:


I think so long as we're talking about competitive sports it's a long, long way from gymnastics. The kind of movements and positions required in competitive gymnastics are light years beyond what most competitive boulderers would be capable of. You see lots of pictures of climbers aspiring to a front lever, which in gymnastics is barely an entry level position.

Gymnastics, of course, has been a competitive sport for over a century and has developed accordingly. Who knows what the elite boulderers of the 22nd century might be capable of, assuming the sport survives that long?

In reply to Mick Ward:

Get it writ, Mick.

In reply to planetmarshall:


I think you're probably right to say that standards in gymnastics have been pushed further than those in bouldering. However, that's always going to be an impossible thing to actually quantify and I'm not sure that ability to do a front lever is a very good approximation. I'm sure it is an entry level position for gymnastics but it only becomes a useful basis for comparison if the strength needed to achieve it is as important and useful in climbing as it is in gymnastics. Do you think it is?

In reply to stp:

Reminiscent of his dream sequence in Stone Monkey ?

In reply to Mick Ward:


Honorary mention to Randy Leavitt who (from what I can tell) - 'invented' the invert technique for climbing overhanging offwidths.

In reply to SenzuBean:

In fact it was called "Leavittation"

In reply to John Stainforth:

That is not a synonym for invert technique, but rather the more general stacked jams + using a knee/calf jam to replace stacked jams. Invert technique is a specialized form of Leavittation where your feet go first. Not that I know any of this from experience! (not for lack of trying...)

Video of Leavittation (by Randy Leavitt himself) for those interested: vimeo.com/46589051

In reply to Xavierpercy:

Interesting comment but it seems mostly about one round of one comp and also personal preference. If I remember correctly I think Vail was where Percy Bishton was head routesetter and he said the problems were deliberately made to be more old school style, like actual rock climbing. But of course routesetters can only work with the wall they have and Jakob acknowedged that.

I wondered a similar thing about the recent BBC. There was no section of the wall that was really steep (no roofs or 45 degree stuff) and if the same wall is used year in year out I imagine that must favour some competitors more than others.

One trend seems to be that the routesetting is constantly evolving and changing. Seemed to be less parkour style this year and a move to more big volume style. I think the change it good since it forces creativity on the part of the climbers too.

In reply to Luke90:


No, most likely not - I was mostly just pointing out that while competition bouldering may superficially look a bit like gymnastics, it's a world away in terms of the skills required ( you get no points for 'artistry' for one thing - maybe the IFSC have missed a trick there! ). I think the Lattice chaps have it well established that finger strength is really the only physical metric that correlates well with climbing ability, though personally I suspect that a competition boulderer is probably more likely to be able to perform a front lever than a high level sport or trad climber.

In 3 decades it will be on the mountain. With crampons on. 'Likes' not going to accumulate themselves.

In reply to planetmarshall:

Think I misread your original post. In that light, what you're saying makes perfect sense.

In reply to stp:
I remember reading Lynn Hill's book, where she talked about the routes in a climbing competition in Leeds(?) being quite different climbing to the other competition routes she was used to. I think she said something about feeling like she was being schooled in the kind of climbing that the setters had grown up with in the UK, with the climbing being quite technical. which has reminded me of reading in OTE about a competition in The Foundry, where one of the routes was an overhanging crack climb, where the setting had bolted a piece of climbing wall board onto the side of a corner, iirc it was something of a struggle for a lot of the competitors.

In reply to Timmd:

Nice vid.Big footholds and easy to coordinate.But thank goodness for a bit of climbing without the boring heel hooks.