UKC

Hello again,

The time has come to buy my first sleeping bag and I think it's fair to say that with so many options and things to consider, I'm in well over my head.

I've decided that, for the time being, I'll be getting a 3 season bag for use from spring to autumn in the British Mountains (mainly Wales/Snowdonia but possibly also Scotland).

The problem is that I've never camped before, so I'm not really sure what to expect temperature wise.

How low do the temperatures typically drop in the British mountains in the spring/autumn?

The main factors I will be looking at when making my decision are weight and packing size (apart from the temperature rating, of course). Anything else especially important to consider?

Many thanks

In reply to asteclaru:

My advice is buy the best (usually the most expensive) down bag that you can afford.

There is nothing more miserable than being cold and UK is notorious for unseasonal weather. I regularly camp with friends in my Club who wake up moaning about "how cold it was last night" and it always turns out that they have a 3 season non-down bag.....

Good luck!

In reply to asteclaru:
Personally, I'd still buy a good down sleeping bag, as they are lighter and less bulky than synthetics, and usually warmer. Just make sure you keep it dry. Synthetics fare better when damp/wet. Also important. Make sure you buy a good quality sleeping mat to keep the 'ground cold' at bay.

Have fun.

In reply to asteclaru:

Thanks for the replies so far.

I'll most likely go for a down one as they're a lot lighter than synthetics, but I'm also considering hybrids (like the Rab Morpheus) with a synthetic base/down upper.

I've found this website :

https://www.meteoblue.com/en/weather/forecast/modelclimate/snowdonia_united...

and if it is to be believed, the temperatures at night in the areas of the UK I'm interested in seems to be around -6C in spring/autumn.

Do you think that a comfort rating of -10C would be suitable? I definitely don't want to be cold, but I hate overheating too.

In reply to asteclaru:

I personally rate Mountain Equipment down bags very highly, and there is quite a lot of choice on their site. Its worth looking for smaller retailers selling older stock from last years range - I saved quite a lot of money on my last bag that way.

You don't say what the bug will be used for. If you'll be _car_ camping then go for warmth and durability, and a full length zip that allows you to increase ventilation and thereby use the bag in a wider range of temperatures. For three season valley use in the UK you are unlikely to need something rated at below +5degC. Packed size and weight aren't particularly important

If you're going to be backpacking in the mountains and carrying the bag during the day then size and weight are important factors too, and a bag rated down to 0degC would be more. Making judgements about this kind of kit is difficult without experience, which you hint that you don't have. Experience takes time to acquire, and sometimes you end-up buying unsuitable gear. Babika's advice to buy the best you can afford can mitigate this to some extent.

Hope that helps.

In reply to andyjohnson0:

It will definitely be for backpacking, so weight and size are important to me.

For now, I only 'need' the bag for a mountaineering course I'm doing at Plas y Brenin in September. The course includes an overnight wild camp (so I'm guessing in the mountains, not a camping site).

I say 'need' because I can always borrow one from their store (it's included in the course price); but I've been looking at joining a mountaineering club and the one I've decided to give a try camps when they go on trips, so I might as well just buy one now, while there are a few sales around.

In reply to asteclaru:
(Apologies if I underestimated your level of experience in my earlier post!)

If you lack experience of camping in the mountains and you're booked on a course then, in your situation, I'd be tempted to use the bag that PyB supply and use the experience you gain to help with making a purchase decision afterwards. Take a lightweight silk liner if the idea of a pre-used bag is off-putting! Also, bear in mind that outdoor centre equipment tends to be chosen for durability rather than low size/weight, so you may be issued with a lower-spec item than you might buy yourself.

Alternatively, why not email PyB and ask if the instructor(s) for your course have any recommendations? In my experience they're a knowledgeable and friendly bunch of people.

If you want to take you own bag then maybe an ME Helium 400 would be about right for three-season UK mountain use. Definitely worth checking other manufacturers too: PHD, Vango, etc.

In reply to asteclaru:

As others have said, I'd definitely go for down. It's quite easy when you start out to be paranoid about getting down wet, but as long as you're not reckless or stupid, it's actually not difficult to look after when you're camping. Down brings the advantages noted above of size and weight.

In terms of rating, think about how cold / warm you sleep at present. If you're under a sheet on the bed from spring to autumn you can probably get away with a lighter weight sleeping bag. If like me you're under a 3 season duvet for most of that time, it's worth thinking about something beefier. I learned - through a very cold weekend camping in the Lakes one summer in a +5c rated bag - that I need a sleeping bag with a comfort rating 10-15 degrees c warmer than the 'normal' person, so I use a -5c rated bag now during the warmer months (and a -25c rated bag when the temp goes below zero!!)

If you can borrow one from PyB, it might be worth trying that and seeing how you get on with the rating before commiting to the outlay for a down bag.

In reply to andyjohnson0:

No need to apologies, I'm very much just starting out in the outdoors, so next to no experience.

Yeah, it seems like a wise choice to just wait until I've tried one of PyB's bags and see how it feels at the temperatures we'll be at.

As an aside, I totally agree that their staff are excellent. This will be my third course with them and it's one of the reasons I keep going back

In reply to Welsh Kate:

You're right, I am a bit paranoid about down equipment. It's reassuring to hear that with care it can be the right choice even in the British weather.

Not sure how relevant this is, but at home I usually go to sleep without any sheet/blanket on in the evening, but have to put something on early in the morning.

In reply to asteclaru:
View it as a system, including the sleeping bag, sleeping mat (pillow if that is a preference for you) with a good quality water proof (exped type) stuff sack, also consider water resistant down and a sleeping bag with some form of water repellant cover such as dry lite. Down is great if you look after it but one mishap on a multi day wild camp can lead to some pretty miserable nights :-/

In reply to asteclaru:

Forgot to mention my ME down sleeping bag uses DRYlite fabric which helps to keep it dry. Sorry if this is too much unnecessary info.

In reply to asteclaru:
I did this course last week - we camped on the side of Snowdon. I took a sleeping bag I'd used camping in Wadi Rum in Jordan, and it was completely inadequate - I was freezing! Meanwhile my tent mate borrowed one from the PYB stores and whilst it wasn't the lightest, smallest bag in the world, she was toasty, while I shivered and barely slept.

The course is great btw - great leaders and learned so much.

In reply to Bigbarofdairymilk:

Thanks for the input. Can you tell us more please?

What routes did you do?

Did you do any scrambling (I think the course is supposed to cover some scrambling, but it obviously depends on the time and weather)?

How many people were there in one tent?

What did you eat in the camp? I was thinking of taking some of those ready meal packs and eat straight out of the bag. I wouldn't have to worry about carrying plates, mugs and other cooking paraphernalia, just a couple of bags and a spork.

Thanks in advance

In reply to asteclaru:

Yeah, it can be dependant on weather, and also what the leaders want to do, and what's going on in the area - e.g. trying not to get in the way of other groups who are in mountain leader assessment p, for example. We did Moel Siabod on Monday, scrambled up by Seniors Direct on Tuesday and down by the Devil's Kitchen, late start on Wednesday as we wild camped that night on Snowdon and did our night navigation, then Yr Aran on Thursday (we had a choice of two routes soI did the less scrambly one as my knee was starting to inflame a bit). Weather was bad on the Friday so we had that as our classroom day as we'd been watching it all week. Did lots of navigation all week so take a good compass.

Tents were Fjallraven 3man (if you're three dwarves!). Most people shared as a two if they hadn't brought your own, as it's warmer, but if you wanted to sign out one for yourself I don't think that would have been a problem. Some people brought jet boilers who'd camped before and already had them, but we just used a trangia stove from the stores, which was pretty good as it got quite windy for a while, and it boiled a decent amount of water pretty quickly.

Food - meals on site are great, breakfasts are amazing, and there's always cake when you get back. The morning before we went on camp they brought out a load of food for you to help yourself to - vac-packed meals, pasta, rice, cous cous, pittas, cheese, cereal bars, flap jacks, porridge. If you're a fussy eater (as I sometimes can be!) then maybe a good idea to supplement with stuff you've brought yourself - e.g. Those Uncle Ben's microwave rice sachets are going to cook a lot quicker than normal pasta and rice in water. You need to have three meals - essentially dinner, breakfast and lunch.

Take waterproof boots if you have them if there's been recent rain as it can get quite boggy. If you don't, you can borrow from stores. And don't forget your loo roll and dog poo bags for your wild camping . It's a great course, and you'll learn loads and have a great time.

In reply to Bigbarofdairymilk:

Thanks for the additional info.

I love scrambling. I've actually done their 5 day 'Introduction to scrambling' course last month (thought it was brilliant) and I'm doing the 2 day version of that course after the mountaineering one (I wanted to stay the full week and that was the only course that tempted me). It's good to know that there might be some during the week too.

I will be taking my own ready meal bags as I am a very fussy eater. Just have to buy and try some beforehand, just to make sure that I actually like the flavours and what not.

Can't wait for September to come now. Hopefully the weather will be decent as on the scrambling course we did part of the Nantlle ridge on a full rainy day and it wasn't ideal.