UKC

I'm hoping to head down to Southern Sandstone next Sunday with a couple of indoor climbing buddies, but the weather is looking a little doubtful. Any recommendations of good bouldering areas which are likely to be dry if there's some light rain the day before (presumably any heavy rain would prevent climbing for a couple of days on sandstone this time of year).

This will be the first outdoor trip for both of my friends, so we'll be looking for some easy stuff to get a feel of the rock and for us to get the hang off spotting. We climb up to V3 indoors, and are knocking on the door of V4, so we're not looking solely for f2-f5 ladders, but we're certainly not ready for any bold highballs!

Cheers!

In reply to dbdkmezz:

If you've got a couple of days off i'd head down to Dorset to the Cutting Boulder field or up to the Peak district, both are about the same distance from London. But if you've only got the day head to Harrisions Rock, its a good introduction to Sandstone, or Happy Valley/Bulls Hollow/Toad Rock as you've got a few to choose from all close together.

In reply to evansliam:

Thanks for suggesting Happy Valley, I'd not really considered the smaller venues. Now I've had a closer look I see Southern Sandstone paints it as the land of sun, with plenty of short problems around our level

Now I just have to hope that Saturday's forecasted heavy rain turns out to be a mere shower and we'll be good to go!

In reply to dbdkmezz:
Southern sandstone relies on the outer crust to protect the incredibly soft rock inside. At this time of year it’s very rare the rock isn’t damp and when it’s damp the outer crust is weak leaving it and the rock underneath easily damaged. Once the core is exposed it rarely repairs as it’s climbed too frequently leaving even worse erosion. Please only climb here after unusually dry spells between October and April. I would go somewhere else this weekend.

If you do go and the rock even looks slightly damp do the right thing and go home. If it doesn’t damage it this time you will soon.

Happy valley iirc is some what wooded and I wouldn’t think it very quick drying in the main especially whilst the trees have some leaves on.

In reply to CurlyStevo:

When the rock is dry it's a light golden colour
Brown or black means it's damp even if there's no dampness on the surface.

In reply to Removed UserArdverikie2:
Or bright green or just touch it most other rocks are less easily damaged when wet. Igneous it doesn’t matter at all although it will be a bit harder to climb, limestone is just slippery and horrible but drys fast in the main.

Personally I think there are various signs it’s damp, normally visual and to touch. But if it feels bone dry and not that sandy damp feeling colour alone does not mean it’s not in fair condition imo.

In reply to dbdkmezz:
Your profile says you're in St Albans? If that's still the case then you defo want to go to The Peak District rather than Southern Sandstone.

In reply to CurlyStevo:


I'd disagree. As you correctly say above it's absorbed moisture that weakens sandstone so you need to try and to judge what's below the surface, not on the surface, as best as you can.
I'm not sure what the mechanism is that causes damp sandstone to darken in colour but it clearly does.

In reply to dbdkmezz:


I'd argue that mileage on stuff you consider "too easy" compared to your indoor grades would be the best use of your time. Will save you endless hours of frustration being punted off some V4 and having an existential gym crisis.

In reply to Removed UserArdverikie2:
Well i first climbed on the rock over 30 years ago since then it’s been my local crags for over 13 years so I do know what I’m talking about. The rock can discolour from old seeps, but it doesn’t mean they are still damp. I’ve never seen the rock damaged when the outer is dry. However I’ve pulled off a hold on only slightly damp rock and seen others do worse when some lines were dry enough and not damaged. Most the strength of the rock isn’t in the core as I mentioned that’s very soft mostly, its in the crust. Admittedly the strength varies a lot. Look at overhanging buttress area or unclimbed wall they have a high iron content and even tend to polish and potentially are about as strong as the weaker areas in Northumberland that are trad climbed. However much of it the core when exposed could be dug out with a tea spoon, see most of stone farm for example. Climbing the harder sandstone would be far less likely to badly damage it, for example Bowles, is much harder wearing but still if wet you are eroding it faster and all of it is pretty soft compared with grit etc ( which still isn’t a hard rock). I know for a fact the center claim it’s good enough to climb in summer only a few hours after rain (I’ve rung them) and not unusually most the lines are damp and some borderline ok, yet the damage at Bowles is low (compared to other sandstone areas but way worse than any grit crag). Mostly that’s down to the rock being better quality.

In reply to dbdkmezz:

Take a flamethrower. Problem solved.

In reply to dbdkmezz:

I'm going to push you to Stone Farm considering all other aspects (weather, erosion, first day outdoors, indoor grade) that have been mentioned. The venue is easily accessed with plenty of problems and traverses.

In reply to Amun:
Stone Farm looks perfect, thanks!

CurlyStevo, thanks, I appreciate the detailed response. I was aware different types of sandstone became safe (for the rock!) to climb at very different rates, but that’s useless without local knowledge.

Alas, this weekend doesn’t look like the one: https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/public/weather/forecast/gcpfzewe7 Heavy rain Friday morning and light rain throughout Saturday, presumably no chance any sandstone can be dry the day after that in October

Unfortunately we live in England and it’s wet, cool and damp most of the time...

This article should help you decide sandstone is a bad idea. To be fair, even in the summer, the southern sandstone is slippy as feck!!!

The Peaks is probably a much better option.

https://www.thoughtco.com/when-can-you-climb-on-wet-rock-755255

In reply to dbdkmezz:

Yup the weather looks pants this weekend and beyond down this way. Why not take a trip up the M1 to Hathersage in the peaks?I have had beginner fun at Burbage Boulders.

In reply to Francescaparratt:

Thanks for posting that. Includes the line "Often times sandstone will be dry on the surface but still wet beneath." which is exactly the point I was trying to make above.

In reply to Removed UserArdverikie2:
Yes but in general the core of southern sandstone has very little strength, its The crust that maintains the integrity of the rock, like I sad I’ve never seen the rock break when the crust was consistently dry over the climb. Also it’s not just holds breaking that’s the issue. When ss is wet you can feel the crust has become more easily eroded, it becomes noticeably less well bonded together and sandy. From personal experience I would say if people just didn’t climb routes that weren’t dry on the surface the rock would be in a much better state now. The amount of people you see climbing obviously damp routes is shocking and many are old enough to know better.

I think southern sandstone is much more pourous than most, grit (a type of sandstone) for example can hold puddles for a long period of time, whilst southern sandstone soaks up water a lot deeper than two inches imo. My guess it’s quite rare for the rock to full dry out going a few meters in to the rock in most locations.

In reply to dbdkmezz:
Your looking for at least a week of dry weather maybe more before southern sandstone is ok to climb most times in the darker months. It’s rare for winters to be ok to climb on that rock but there have been exceptions.

In reply to dbdkmezz:

There is a whole load of reasonable and accessible bouldering in Leicestershire which never seems to enter the debate when South based climbers ask for venue advice and it always boils down to Peak/Dorset/Wye Valley. I'm not suggesting that it is the equal of these places, but there is plenty to have a go at and on short winter days saves a couple of hours driving which could be better put to use climbing or at least eating cake. I often wonder how many people drive up the M1 looking forward to getting to Stanage and are within 50m of the mighty Nanpanton slab but don't even know it exists. You could easily fill a day at Beacon Hill, Cademan woods and Oaks Pinnacle

Cademan Wood and Broad Hill
Beacon Hill
Oaks Pinnacle