This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Having in the past been ‘brushed’ several times by both oncoming and overtaking wing mirrors, as a cyclist I have often been tempted to take on the beast.
An overtaking wing mirror uses the element of surprise, so nothing much one can do there.
However, there have been many occasions I have seen the oncoming mirror heading inexorably towards me. Evasive action is usually possible, but I have often been very tempted to keep my line and stick out the heel of my hand and bash the mirror back.
I’ve thought about various precautions; bent elbow, acceptable speed, above which the risk is unacceptable, etc.
I have even practiced on my own car (stationary) to get some idea of the forces involved.
Bear in mind this is a purely defensive strategy, I wouldn’t want to start being pro-actively offensive and go looking for opportunities, literally going out of my way.
So, before I embark on this strategy, I thought I’d ask the UKC cycling collective if anyone out there has ever done this and survived?
If so, any hints and tips?
An overtaking wing mirror uses the element of surprise, so nothing much one can do there.
However, there have been many occasions I have seen the oncoming mirror heading inexorably towards me. Evasive action is usually possible, but I have often been very tempted to keep my line and stick out the heel of my hand and bash the mirror back.
I’ve thought about various precautions; bent elbow, acceptable speed, above which the risk is unacceptable, etc.
I have even practiced on my own car (stationary) to get some idea of the forces involved.
Bear in mind this is a purely defensive strategy, I wouldn’t want to start being pro-actively offensive and go looking for opportunities, literally going out of my way.
So, before I embark on this strategy, I thought I’d ask the UKC cycling collective if anyone out there has ever done this and survived?
If so, any hints and tips?
12
15
In reply to Fredt:
I think you'd be wise to think of some additional protective gear and some way of extending your reach so you don't need to get so close to the oncoming car. Maybe an arrangement like this. https://goo.gl/mVny4H
I think you'd be wise to think of some additional protective gear and some way of extending your reach so you don't need to get so close to the oncoming car. Maybe an arrangement like this. https://goo.gl/mVny4H
31
In reply to Fredt:
If you have to take time off work as a result of the inevitable head on collision, will your employer be sympathetic?
If you have to take time off work as a result of the inevitable head on collision, will your employer be sympathetic?
1
In reply to Andy Hardy:
Aye, the hospital beds are full of people telling other patients what an idiot the car driver was...
Aye, the hospital beds are full of people telling other patients what an idiot the car driver was...
2
In reply to Fredt:
I'll have to get back to you but I think I remember a line somewhere in the highway code about not trying to punch on-coming traffic.
I'll have to get back to you but I think I remember a line somewhere in the highway code about not trying to punch on-coming traffic.
12
In reply to Fredt:
I motorcycle courier I used to know was well practiced in the art of removing wing mirrors from moving vehicles that had endangered him.
But, he wore heavy protective clothing....
I would never risk it myself. Too painful and embarrassing if you get it wrong.
I motorcycle courier I used to know was well practiced in the art of removing wing mirrors from moving vehicles that had endangered him.
But, he wore heavy protective clothing....
I would never risk it myself. Too painful and embarrassing if you get it wrong.
1
In reply to Fredt:
Don't forget, not all wing mirror housings articulate, but the mirror inside them does. You might break your arm/wrist.
Don't forget, not all wing mirror housings articulate, but the mirror inside them does. You might break your arm/wrist.
4
In reply to Fredt:
I have done this several times, typically when I am cycling on a road turned single lane because of parked cars on either side, and some arsehole in an oncoming car then decided that they have the right to squeeze through using up all my safety margin, even though I had clearly entered the constriction first.
Just use the palm of your hand, using your fist will hurt your knuckles!
CB
I have done this several times, typically when I am cycling on a road turned single lane because of parked cars on either side, and some arsehole in an oncoming car then decided that they have the right to squeeze through using up all my safety margin, even though I had clearly entered the constriction first.
Just use the palm of your hand, using your fist will hurt your knuckles!
CB
8
3
In reply to cb294:
This is exactly the scenario I frequently encounter, and I always considered the heel of my hand, using the fist was someone else’s idea.
You have emboldened me.
> I have done this several times, typically when I am cycling on a road turned single lane because of parked cars on either side, and some arsehole in an oncoming car then decided that they have the right to squeeze through using up all my safety margin, even though I had clearly entered the constriction first.
> Just use the palm of your hand, using your fist will hurt your knuckles!
> CB
This is exactly the scenario I frequently encounter, and I always considered the heel of my hand, using the fist was someone else’s idea.
You have emboldened me.
Post edited at 09:04
4
2
8
12
In reply to GrahamD:
They really shouldn't be driving if they are pissed!
> Well done. Another set of pissed of motorists with a grudge against cyclists.
They really shouldn't be driving if they are pissed!
15
In reply to Fredt:
How about starting off on small vehicles like mobility scooters to get the hang of it and then gradually progress to bigger and bigger ones?
How about starting off on small vehicles like mobility scooters to get the hang of it and then gradually progress to bigger and bigger ones?
19
In reply to Fredt:
Best hope the sudden thump as the wing mirror doesn't startle the driver causing a momentary deviation in their direction.
Best hope the sudden thump as the wing mirror doesn't startle the driver causing a momentary deviation in their direction.
1
1
21
In reply to Hooo:
Being a biker it seems everyone has a tale about taking off a wing mirror or putting the boot in to a door.
I only know 2 people who have actually done it and both were arrested and now have criminal records.
> I motorcycle courier I used to know was well practiced in the art of removing wing mirrors from moving vehicles that had endangered him.
> But, he wore heavy protective clothing....
> I would never risk it myself. Too painful and embarrassing if you get it wrong.
Being a biker it seems everyone has a tale about taking off a wing mirror or putting the boot in to a door.
I only know 2 people who have actually done it and both were arrested and now have criminal records.
5
In reply to Dax H:
Have to admit there are times when a driver has really pi55ed me off with their dangerous actions and would have loved to do a bit of damage to the vehicle. However with them being protected in their nice metal box and me being on a push bike there is only going to be one winner and it aint me. I usually settle for calling them a fuc**ng c**t and carry on my way
Have to admit there are times when a driver has really pi55ed me off with their dangerous actions and would have loved to do a bit of damage to the vehicle. However with them being protected in their nice metal box and me being on a push bike there is only going to be one winner and it aint me. I usually settle for calling them a fuc**ng c**t and carry on my way
9
In reply to Fredt:
I’m a van driver, and when venturing into Hades, also known as London, it’s everyone for themselves.
Clipping your wing mirror against a spandex clad cyclist is actually an Olympic sport, founded in 1962 by a young Russian of the name Runda Cyclisova.
I’m a van driver, and when venturing into Hades, also known as London, it’s everyone for themselves.
Clipping your wing mirror against a spandex clad cyclist is actually an Olympic sport, founded in 1962 by a young Russian of the name Runda Cyclisova.
15
2
1
In reply to Fredt:
Defensive strategy, not getting out of the way of an oncoming car so you can break your wrist on it to make a point is a defensive strategy? Have you been hitting the crack pipe or are we not using the same language?
WTF!
Perhaps find something more constructive and less criminally stupid to do with your time and energy.
jk
> Evasive action is usually possible, but I have often been very tempted to keep my line and stick out the heel of my hand and bash the mirror back.
> I’ve thought about various precautions; bent elbow, acceptable speed, above which the risk is unacceptable, etc.
> Bear in mind this is a purely defensive strategy, I wouldn’t want to start being pro-actively offensive and go looking for opportunities, literally going out of my way.
> I’ve thought about various precautions; bent elbow, acceptable speed, above which the risk is unacceptable, etc.
> Bear in mind this is a purely defensive strategy, I wouldn’t want to start being pro-actively offensive and go looking for opportunities, literally going out of my way.
Defensive strategy, not getting out of the way of an oncoming car so you can break your wrist on it to make a point is a defensive strategy? Have you been hitting the crack pipe or are we not using the same language?
> I have even practiced on my own car (stationary) to get some idea of the forces involved.
WTF!
> If so, any hints and tips?
Perhaps find something more constructive and less criminally stupid to do with your time and energy.
jk
14
1
In reply to Fredt:
It’s an expensive thing for you to do!
http://www.thecomet.net/news/dash-cam-footage-exonerates-4x4-driver-accused...
It’s an expensive thing for you to do!
http://www.thecomet.net/news/dash-cam-footage-exonerates-4x4-driver-accused...
In reply to Fredt:
I love that you've practiced on your own car. Brill. I'm gonna try it too. Are your neighbours a bit wary of you now.
I love that you've practiced on your own car. Brill. I'm gonna try it too. Are your neighbours a bit wary of you now.
3
In reply to DancingOnRock:
What I see in that dashcam footage is the driver not stopping until after he'd pulled to the left towards the jogger and the jogger had given his mirror a slap. He didn't "stop to avoid the jogger" - he changed direction towards the jogger, and then stopped after the jogger expressed his displeasure at the manoeuvre. OK, the jogger should perhaps not have reacted in the way he did, but the footage hardly "exonerates" the driver - he chose to endanger the more vulnerable road user by moving towards him, rather than waiting for the oncoming car to go by and passing the pedestrian at a safe distance.
He also looks like a smugly self-righteous old tw@, but that's by the by.
Then again, this happened near Stevenage where the car is king - despite the town itself having been provided with a segregated network of cycle paths from the get-go: https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2017/sep/19/britains-1960s-cycling-revol...
What I see in that dashcam footage is the driver not stopping until after he'd pulled to the left towards the jogger and the jogger had given his mirror a slap. He didn't "stop to avoid the jogger" - he changed direction towards the jogger, and then stopped after the jogger expressed his displeasure at the manoeuvre. OK, the jogger should perhaps not have reacted in the way he did, but the footage hardly "exonerates" the driver - he chose to endanger the more vulnerable road user by moving towards him, rather than waiting for the oncoming car to go by and passing the pedestrian at a safe distance.
He also looks like a smugly self-righteous old tw@, but that's by the by.
Then again, this happened near Stevenage where the car is king - despite the town itself having been provided with a segregated network of cycle paths from the get-go: https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2017/sep/19/britains-1960s-cycling-revol...
Post edited at 12:59
3
12
In reply to Fredt:
In my younger days I thought it might be funny to flip a traffic cone by tapping it as I passed by on a motorbike at 45mph
Result? Cone went no where, hand actually hit the back of my lid, very amused mate who was following and a badly bruised set of fingers.
Do not underestimate the amount of force involved
In my younger days I thought it might be funny to flip a traffic cone by tapping it as I passed by on a motorbike at 45mph
Result? Cone went no where, hand actually hit the back of my lid, very amused mate who was following and a badly bruised set of fingers.
Do not underestimate the amount of force involved
1
In reply to Martin W:
Agree, the bloke in the car had not stopped by the time he was passing the runner and chose to move towards him rather than stop which by the looks of it was entirely possible. Dont blame the runner for showing his displeasure but he was daft to lie to the police about it.
Agree, the bloke in the car had not stopped by the time he was passing the runner and chose to move towards him rather than stop which by the looks of it was entirely possible. Dont blame the runner for showing his displeasure but he was daft to lie to the police about it.
2
In reply to DancingOnRock:
That article is infuriating!
“Never in my right mind would I jog on that narrow road,” said Vic, a former professional (e.g. van) driver.
Pedestrians have the right to use a road and he was on the correct side and highly visible
“It’s too dangerous. There’s just about room for two cars to pass each other.”
So not enough room to drive between a jogger and an oncoming car then
He said: “I had to avoid the jogger, so I performed an emergency stop – but he kept on running, and he whacked my mirror with his hand before carrying on.”
You kept driving fast into a bend with a jogger on it despite it being too narrow for you to fit if there is an oncoming vehicle then finally braked quite hard when you realised you were causing an accident
Doesn't fully excuse the jogger doing (£290!?) damage to the wingmirror but hardly exonerates the driver
That article is infuriating!
“Never in my right mind would I jog on that narrow road,” said Vic, a former professional (e.g. van) driver.
Pedestrians have the right to use a road and he was on the correct side and highly visible
“It’s too dangerous. There’s just about room for two cars to pass each other.”
So not enough room to drive between a jogger and an oncoming car then
He said: “I had to avoid the jogger, so I performed an emergency stop – but he kept on running, and he whacked my mirror with his hand before carrying on.”
You kept driving fast into a bend with a jogger on it despite it being too narrow for you to fit if there is an oncoming vehicle then finally braked quite hard when you realised you were causing an accident
Doesn't fully excuse the jogger doing (£290!?) damage to the wingmirror but hardly exonerates the driver
5
2
In reply to Fredt:
Defensive driving/riding would be to take evasive action.
Deliberately clouting a wing mirror is criminal damage. Two wrongs do not make a right.
You put yourself at risk of legal action and of serious injury or death.
Not clever.
Defensive driving/riding would be to take evasive action.
Deliberately clouting a wing mirror is criminal damage. Two wrongs do not make a right.
You put yourself at risk of legal action and of serious injury or death.
Not clever.
3
In reply to trouserburp:
Two offences were committed (one of dangerous/careless driving, and one of deliberate criminal damage), and each should be prosecuted for their own offence.
Two wrongs do NOT make a right. "Revenge" cannot ever be justified; we have a legal system for that.
> Doesn't fully excuse the jogger doing (£290!?) damage to the wingmirror but hardly exonerates the driver
Two offences were committed (one of dangerous/careless driving, and one of deliberate criminal damage), and each should be prosecuted for their own offence.
Two wrongs do NOT make a right. "Revenge" cannot ever be justified; we have a legal system for that.
Post edited at 14:24
1
In reply to Neil Williams:
Not sure if its revenge, looks more like a case of "Oi you are too close you tw*t!" I would certainly be making my presence known if it was me.
Not sure if its revenge, looks more like a case of "Oi you are too close you tw*t!" I would certainly be making my presence known if it was me.
1
2
In reply to Neil Williams:
Except we manifestly don't, as the police and courts do not give a shit about car drivers deliberately or carelessly endangering cyclists and pedestrians.
They barely can be bothered if the cyclist or pedestrian is actually injured or killed (in which case the driver almost always gets away with a slap on the wrist).
CB
Except we manifestly don't, as the police and courts do not give a shit about car drivers deliberately or carelessly endangering cyclists and pedestrians.
They barely can be bothered if the cyclist or pedestrian is actually injured or killed (in which case the driver almost always gets away with a slap on the wrist).
CB
5
1
In reply to the sheep:
I have done that before (where someone was pulling in on me), and to do it I banged on the window (in such a way that would not cause damage). I did not deliberately damage the wing mirror.
I have done that before (where someone was pulling in on me), and to do it I banged on the window (in such a way that would not cause damage). I did not deliberately damage the wing mirror.
Post edited at 14:43
In reply to Fredt:
A topic close to my heart as a runner. This lunchtime I am glad to say the cars that came past me (I run facing the oncoming traffic), all gave me enough room, but this is not always the case.
I can say that, as someone who has run around 1300 miles this year, bashing the wing mirror is just not the answer no matter how annoyed you are. Get the licence plate number and tell the Police. Taking the law into your own hands in this way could see you injured, punched or prosecuted and I'm not sure any of it will do your long-term wellbeing any good.
That being said, there have been times where I have been passed so close that I have banged on the car as they passed to let them know that they are putting my life at risk. This is rare, thankfully. I wouldn't be smashing a wing mirror though.
There's also the point about whether the pedestrian has a right to be there or not. As a runner I have been abused by drivers for not running on the pavement and using the road. Sorry, but it's my right to run on the road (unless it is a Motorway etc.) and drivers need to be aware of all potential hazards, including pedestrians. Quite often where I run the pavements are in a terrible state and are not fit to run on anyway - choosing the road is the better option.
That being said, there are 2 notable stretches of road where I simply choose not to run because they are fast, narrow and twisting. Yes, I have the right to run there but in those 2 cases discretion is the better part of valour and the risks of running up and down there are just not worth it to me, my wife or my 2 kids.
I can only suggest that you find a way of expressing your annoyance in a way that doesn't escalate the problem and gives you some sense of satisfaction.
Good luck.
A topic close to my heart as a runner. This lunchtime I am glad to say the cars that came past me (I run facing the oncoming traffic), all gave me enough room, but this is not always the case.
I can say that, as someone who has run around 1300 miles this year, bashing the wing mirror is just not the answer no matter how annoyed you are. Get the licence plate number and tell the Police. Taking the law into your own hands in this way could see you injured, punched or prosecuted and I'm not sure any of it will do your long-term wellbeing any good.
That being said, there have been times where I have been passed so close that I have banged on the car as they passed to let them know that they are putting my life at risk. This is rare, thankfully. I wouldn't be smashing a wing mirror though.
There's also the point about whether the pedestrian has a right to be there or not. As a runner I have been abused by drivers for not running on the pavement and using the road. Sorry, but it's my right to run on the road (unless it is a Motorway etc.) and drivers need to be aware of all potential hazards, including pedestrians. Quite often where I run the pavements are in a terrible state and are not fit to run on anyway - choosing the road is the better option.
That being said, there are 2 notable stretches of road where I simply choose not to run because they are fast, narrow and twisting. Yes, I have the right to run there but in those 2 cases discretion is the better part of valour and the risks of running up and down there are just not worth it to me, my wife or my 2 kids.
I can only suggest that you find a way of expressing your annoyance in a way that doesn't escalate the problem and gives you some sense of satisfaction.
Good luck.
9
In reply to Neil Williams:
By the time I had cycled home this evening I would quite happily of administered some retribution. 5 incidents in only a 16k commute with 5k of that off road!
By the time I had cycled home this evening I would quite happily of administered some retribution. 5 incidents in only a 16k commute with 5k of that off road!
In reply to Dax H:
I still smile when I remember an impatient driver in a "super car" with the top down. Inching along beside me while I was stationary on my bike at traffic lights. I looked down and said "your scratching my pedal with your door" !! He stopped dead, didn't say anything. I rode away first with no raving next to me. One of my better rides home from work.
P
I still smile when I remember an impatient driver in a "super car" with the top down. Inching along beside me while I was stationary on my bike at traffic lights. I looked down and said "your scratching my pedal with your door" !! He stopped dead, didn't say anything. I rode away first with no raving next to me. One of my better rides home from work.
P
3
In reply to Fre
i really do hope you break your arm if you attempt this. you're clearly "one of those" cyclists
i really do hope you break your arm if you attempt this. you're clearly "one of those" cyclists
7
2
In reply to Fredt:
Need to hope that the car driver's lawyer doesn't find this thread when you're in court...
Need to hope that the car driver's lawyer doesn't find this thread when you're in court...
2
2
In reply to BrendanO:
It should be the driver of the car that ends up in court if he's passing cyclists within arm's reach.
It should be the driver of the car that ends up in court if he's passing cyclists within arm's reach.
3
In reply to deepsoup:
Both should be in Court for their respective offences - criminal damage (cyclist) and dangerous driving (car driver).
Two wrongs do not make a right, and vigilanteism has no place in our criminal justice system.
> It should be the driver of the car that ends up in court if he's passing cyclists within arm's reach.
Both should be in Court for their respective offences - criminal damage (cyclist) and dangerous driving (car driver).
Two wrongs do not make a right, and vigilanteism has no place in our criminal justice system.
2
In reply to Neil Williams:
Neither should be in court. The courts should be used for serious issues.
Both should have their heads banged together and their toys confiscated.
Neither should be in court. The courts should be used for serious issues.
Both should have their heads banged together and their toys confiscated.
7
In reply to Fredt:
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/furious-female-cyclist-rips-wing-mir...
That's the way to do it
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/furious-female-cyclist-rips-wing-mir...
That's the way to do it
5
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Elsewhere on the site
Fri Night Vid Finding Focus - Life Behind The Lens of a Climbing Photographer
This week's Friday Night Video is a portrait of a prolific climbing photographer from Wedge Climbing. Sam Pratt is well known in both the outdoor and competition scene but if you haven't heard of him, you've likely seen...
26 Apr
Loading Notifications...