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You have to admire the front of this guy, repeatedly telling Parliament that detailed assessment of various sectors have been undertaken, before turning round and admitting to select committee that it was all rubbish, and government have actually done none of it!
Apparently not an episode of In the Thick It!
#Omnishambles
Apparently not an episode of In the Thick It!
#Omnishambles
50
In reply to Phil79:
I think the phrase you're looking for is "thick as mince, lazy as a toad and vain as Narcissus":
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/david-davis-thick-as-mince-la...
I think the phrase you're looking for is "thick as mince, lazy as a toad and vain as Narcissus":
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/david-davis-thick-as-mince-la...
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In reply to Phil79:
Do you think he knows what the assessments would say (were they to exist, in some form) and therefore is simply pretending that no due diligence has been done on the biggest economic decision this government will ever take?
I despair at this "government"
Do you think he knows what the assessments would say (were they to exist, in some form) and therefore is simply pretending that no due diligence has been done on the biggest economic decision this government will ever take?
I despair at this "government"
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In reply to Phil79:
...just like the Monty Python Cheese Shop sketch but without the music.
youtube.com/watch?v=B3KBuQHHKx0&
...just like the Monty Python Cheese Shop sketch but without the music.
youtube.com/watch?v=B3KBuQHHKx0&
8
In reply to Phil79:
But, really, does all this matter?
The county voted and we're out. Both sides lied and the biggest liers won and now there is no going back.
Cutting off one's nose to spite one's face?
Can an MP be sacked, or sent to prison, for negligence and willfully misleading and alleged lieing?
But, really, does all this matter?
The county voted and we're out. Both sides lied and the biggest liers won and now there is no going back.
Cutting off one's nose to spite one's face?
Can an MP be sacked, or sent to prison, for negligence and willfully misleading and alleged lieing?
Post edited at 12:45
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In reply to The Lemming:
No I believe it is called "Parliamentary Privilege", they are allowed to lie, obviously people won't keep voting for liars (except they do).
> Can an MP be sacked, or sent to prison, for negligence and willfully misleading and alleged lieing?
No I believe it is called "Parliamentary Privilege", they are allowed to lie, obviously people won't keep voting for liars (except they do).
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In reply to Phil79:
Yes, saw that on the news this morning. Hilary Benn gently led him to the admission. All the while, I was saying 'why not?'...
Hilary took a bit longer to get around to that question, but it was very effective.
Yes, saw that on the news this morning. Hilary Benn gently led him to the admission. All the while, I was saying 'why not?'...
Hilary took a bit longer to get around to that question, but it was very effective.
2
In reply to captain paranoia:
Or as the Express would have it: "Davis' BRILLIANT response to Remainer Benn during FIERY squabble over BREXIT assessments".
FFS
Or as the Express would have it: "Davis' BRILLIANT response to Remainer Benn during FIERY squabble over BREXIT assessments".
FFS
13
In reply to Tony Jones:
I was unfortunate enough to have a look at the Express website to check that out - the main thing I can conclude, is that they need to buy some new keyboards in the Express office.
How else CAN you explain the RANDOM capitalisation OF BREXIT stories?!
> Or as the Express would have it: "Davis' BRILLIANT response to Remainer Benn during FIERY squabble over BREXIT assessments".
> FFS
I was unfortunate enough to have a look at the Express website to check that out - the main thing I can conclude, is that they need to buy some new keyboards in the Express office.
How else CAN you explain the RANDOM capitalisation OF BREXIT stories?!
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In reply to Andy Hardy:
David Davis has no formal due diligence because he can't find experts willing to write a report that agrees with his views. If he could get formal assessments that backed up his arguments he would have a room full of them.
> Do you think he knows what the assessments would say (were they to exist, in some form) and therefore is simply pretending that no due diligence has been done on the biggest economic decision this government will ever take?
David Davis has no formal due diligence because he can't find experts willing to write a report that agrees with his views. If he could get formal assessments that backed up his arguments he would have a room full of them.
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In reply to The Lemming:
Yes it does, how are we supposed to negotiate a favourable deal if we don’t even know what to prioritise, because nobody has done an in-depth assessment ?
We could get rid of him and put someone competent there ?
In theory yes.
> But, really, does all this matter?
Yes it does, how are we supposed to negotiate a favourable deal if we don’t even know what to prioritise, because nobody has done an in-depth assessment ?
> The county voted and we're out. Both sides lied and the biggest liers won and now there is no going back.
> Cutting off one's nose to spite one's face?
We could get rid of him and put someone competent there ?
> Can an MP be sacked, or sent to prison, for negligence and willfully misleading and alleged lieing?
In theory yes.
Post edited at 14:17
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In reply to Phil79:
Rather looks as though the assessments were a bit more conclusive than they would have liked, is my guess.
Rather looks as though the assessments were a bit more conclusive than they would have liked, is my guess.
2
Why pick on David Davis? It seems they’re all comically inept: “Hammond confirms cabinet has not had a specific discussion about the final Brexit outcome it wants, the so-called “end state”.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2017/...
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2017/...
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In reply to Bob Kemp:
if a parliamentary party or MP brings a motion that a government's actions are no longer in the National interest is there a mechanism for bringing about a debate and vote?
if a parliamentary party or MP brings a motion that a government's actions are no longer in the National interest is there a mechanism for bringing about a debate and vote?
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In reply to wercat:
vote of no confidence to trigger new PM or election?
> if a parliamentary party or MP brings a motion that a government's actions are no longer in the National interest is there a mechanism for bringing about a debate and vote?
vote of no confidence to trigger new PM or election?
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In reply to Phil79:
If it wasn't time for May to resign recently, it certainly is now. Phone Arlene Foster to get an agreement soon? Might as well dial the speaking clock.
If it wasn't time for May to resign recently, it certainly is now. Phone Arlene Foster to get an agreement soon? Might as well dial the speaking clock.
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In reply to Bob Kemp:
Well he is just stating what has been obvious for some time, we know there is no strategy.
It’s easy to blame the government but they are not the only culprit. People, overall, don’t know what they want from brexit, or want things that they were promised but are materially impossible, parliament doesn’t know, and government doesn’t know either.
If you thought PMQ was a joke in the first place, just watch today’s PMQ. We are reaching new lows.
Essentially the referendum was a farce, the government’s handling of it a farce. And the state of the politics in this country is quite dismal. The rest of the world watches bemused.
One can just hope someone sensible will come along, with sufficient leadership to either scrap the whole thing or fudge it. No-one in sight though.
> Why pick on David Davis? It seems they’re all comically inept: “Hammond confirms cabinet has not had a specific discussion about the final Brexit outcome it wants, the so-called “end state”.
Well he is just stating what has been obvious for some time, we know there is no strategy.
It’s easy to blame the government but they are not the only culprit. People, overall, don’t know what they want from brexit, or want things that they were promised but are materially impossible, parliament doesn’t know, and government doesn’t know either.
If you thought PMQ was a joke in the first place, just watch today’s PMQ. We are reaching new lows.
Essentially the referendum was a farce, the government’s handling of it a farce. And the state of the politics in this country is quite dismal. The rest of the world watches bemused.
One can just hope someone sensible will come along, with sufficient leadership to either scrap the whole thing or fudge it. No-one in sight though.
Post edited at 17:32
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In reply to Phil79:
The prefix 'Omni' infers an unwarranted amount of logistical skill, it takes an amount of competance to achieve 'omni' anything. This situation wants to be an Omnishambles when it grows up.
> #Omnishambles
The prefix 'Omni' infers an unwarranted amount of logistical skill, it takes an amount of competance to achieve 'omni' anything. This situation wants to be an Omnishambles when it grows up.
8
In reply to davidbeynon:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/06/david-davis-excuses-missin...
> Have a bit of sympathy. It's obvious the dog ate his homework.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/06/david-davis-excuses-missin...
1
In reply to The Lemming:
Yes
Don't bet on that....
Contempt of parliament.
> But, really, does all this matter?
Yes
> The county voted and we're out. Both sides lied and the biggest liers won and now there is no going back.
Don't bet on that....
> Cutting off one's nose to spite one's face?
> Can an MP be sacked, or sent to prison, for negligence and willfully misleading and alleged lieing?
Contempt of parliament.
1
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In reply to RomTheBear:
The public gets what the public wants...
I genuinely believe that fewer and fewer people really think it's a good idea. At some point in the next 6 months, after a bit more omnishambles, my hope is that there'll be enough polling that shows the tide has turned sufficiently and a few cautious MPs will start calling openly for a re-think on the whole thing. If they survive the inevitable howls from the Express etc. then a few more from remainer seat MPs will pile in and then Labour would look daft not to call for a re-think.
Maybe I'm too optimistic but there just seem to be way too many people who either don't want it to happen or haven't the stomach to make it happen for it to still actually happen.
> It’s easy to blame the government but they are not the only culprit. People, overall, don’t know what they want from brexit, or want things that they were promised but are materially impossible, parliament doesn’t know, and government doesn’t know either.
The public gets what the public wants...
> Essentially the referendum was a farce, the government’s handling of it a farce. And the state of the politics in this country is quite dismal. The rest of the world watches bemused.
> One can just hope someone sensible will come along, with sufficient leadership to either scrap the whole thing or fudge it. No-one in sight though.
I genuinely believe that fewer and fewer people really think it's a good idea. At some point in the next 6 months, after a bit more omnishambles, my hope is that there'll be enough polling that shows the tide has turned sufficiently and a few cautious MPs will start calling openly for a re-think on the whole thing. If they survive the inevitable howls from the Express etc. then a few more from remainer seat MPs will pile in and then Labour would look daft not to call for a re-think.
Maybe I'm too optimistic but there just seem to be way too many people who either don't want it to happen or haven't the stomach to make it happen for it to still actually happen.
3
In reply to sg:
Not according to the balance of the polling. There's been, if anything, a tiny shift towards Remain but we're basically still wavering around 50/50 (based on Radio 4's PM today and a quick bit of googling polls myself). Hard to believe from the way the negotiations seem to be verifying all the worst predictions of "project fear" but I think everyone's just becoming more entrenched in their original beliefs. The only thing everyone can agree on is that the government are cocking it up.
> I genuinely believe that fewer and fewer people really think it's a good idea.
Not according to the balance of the polling. There's been, if anything, a tiny shift towards Remain but we're basically still wavering around 50/50 (based on Radio 4's PM today and a quick bit of googling polls myself). Hard to believe from the way the negotiations seem to be verifying all the worst predictions of "project fear" but I think everyone's just becoming more entrenched in their original beliefs. The only thing everyone can agree on is that the government are cocking it up.
2
In reply to Luke90:
Therein lies the problem with polling. Nobody likes admitting their mistakes even to themselves; cognitive dissonance and all that. But given the option to rethink, in the privacy of the ballot box and with another few months of uncertainty I'm not so sure if there wouldn't be a different result.
The problem is that no major party can openly start to question 'the will of the people' until it's clear that the shift is being made. Once it starts to happen there could certainly be some snowball effect going on.
Labour can't show leadership until it can lead on anti-Brexit stance and it's not time for that yet.
The sad truth is that strong and stable leadership is the last thing any of us remainers want for now. There's also the matter of the fact that there is no real negotiation to be had. Ramble, ramble
> Not according to the balance of the polling. There's been, if anything, a tiny shift towards Remain but we're basically still wavering around 50/50 (based on Radio 4's PM today and a quick bit of googling polls myself). Hard to believe from the way the negotiations seem to be verifying all the worst predictions of "project fear" but I think everyone's just becoming more entrenched in their original beliefs. The only thing everyone can agree on is that the government are cocking it up.
Therein lies the problem with polling. Nobody likes admitting their mistakes even to themselves; cognitive dissonance and all that. But given the option to rethink, in the privacy of the ballot box and with another few months of uncertainty I'm not so sure if there wouldn't be a different result.
The problem is that no major party can openly start to question 'the will of the people' until it's clear that the shift is being made. Once it starts to happen there could certainly be some snowball effect going on.
Labour can't show leadership until it can lead on anti-Brexit stance and it's not time for that yet.
The sad truth is that strong and stable leadership is the last thing any of us remainers want for now. There's also the matter of the fact that there is no real negotiation to be had. Ramble, ramble
4
1
In reply to Luke90:
Yes...it is trying to get people to change their minds.
It is hard to see how this can be achieved, but perhaps Hilary Benn's approach - 13.38 post - has something to comend it.
There is a degree of urgency in this, as every week that goes by we seem to inflict more damage on ourselves...
Yes...it is trying to get people to change their minds.
It is hard to see how this can be achieved, but perhaps Hilary Benn's approach - 13.38 post - has something to comend it.
There is a degree of urgency in this, as every week that goes by we seem to inflict more damage on ourselves...
In reply to Bob Kemp:
That's not inept, that's delaying the inevitable until it's unavoidable. It really should be criminal in this case but you can see why nobody wants to mention the elephant in the room even as it gets progressively drunker, hornier and ever more intent on wrecking the place. They can't agree on anything so they don't discuss it, clinging to power no matter how directionless is the name of the game for now.
jk
> Why pick on David Davis? It seems they’re all comically inept: “Hammond confirms cabinet has not had a specific discussion about the final Brexit outcome it wants, the so-called “end state”.
That's not inept, that's delaying the inevitable until it's unavoidable. It really should be criminal in this case but you can see why nobody wants to mention the elephant in the room even as it gets progressively drunker, hornier and ever more intent on wrecking the place. They can't agree on anything so they don't discuss it, clinging to power no matter how directionless is the name of the game for now.
jk
Post edited at 20:36
4
7
1
In reply to pasbury:
... Let's sincerely hope so.
As I commented elsewhere, I put more thought into switching my car insurance.
> This is the beginning of the unravelling, bluffs are being called.
... Let's sincerely hope so.
As I commented elsewhere, I put more thought into switching my car insurance.
2
1
In reply to davidbeynon:
So how does this apply to Davis?
> Great minds think alike.
> And fools seldom differ.
So how does this apply to Davis?
1
In reply to Phil79:
Not lies.
Presumably the reports have been fed into the memory hole under the catch all of 'Risk to National Security'. They never existed. So no lie.
D
Not lies.
Presumably the reports have been fed into the memory hole under the catch all of 'Risk to National Security'. They never existed. So no lie.
D
1
In reply to Phil79:
Leaderless, rudderless, virtually friendless, and seemingly clueless.
... F*cking country's f*cking f*cked mate
Leaderless, rudderless, virtually friendless, and seemingly clueless.
... F*cking country's f*cking f*cked mate
5
1
In reply to Phil79:
I'm going to post this again, because I still can't believe what I'm watching... Hopefully, somebody will tell me that it's me that's wonky, and have me sectioned:
youtube.com/watch?v=vRX0116rUhE&
I'm going to post this again, because I still can't believe what I'm watching... Hopefully, somebody will tell me that it's me that's wonky, and have me sectioned:
youtube.com/watch?v=vRX0116rUhE&
2
In reply to Clauso:
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/impact-assessment...
Thread seems light on the brexit guys but I'm sure they can reassure you as well.
Cheers
Toby
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/impact-assessment...
Thread seems light on the brexit guys but I'm sure they can reassure you as well.
Cheers
Toby
2
In reply to Clauso:
Is that a leaked transcript of the real impact assessments? In full.
> ... F*cking country's f*cking f*cked mate
Is that a leaked transcript of the real impact assessments? In full.
1
Seems Brexit is a bit like the closing scene of the Graduate.
After chasing Katherine Ross for years, he gets her, and they both sit side by side as they head off into the unknown, clearly thinking, "what the f*ck did I just do and where the hell am i going"?
2
In reply to George Ormerod:
>> ... F*cking country's f*cking f*cked mate
I've been told by people, who were involved, that impact assessments have been done for at least a number of major economic sectors and David Davis is fully aware of the contents. The above sounds like a pretty fair summary of their findings if we leave the Customs Union and Single Market but don't get a reasonable and detailed deal agreed by June 2018.
>> ... F*cking country's f*cking f*cked mate
> Is that a leaked transcript of the real impact assessments? In full.
I've been told by people, who were involved, that impact assessments have been done for at least a number of major economic sectors and David Davis is fully aware of the contents. The above sounds like a pretty fair summary of their findings if we leave the Customs Union and Single Market but don't get a reasonable and detailed deal agreed by June 2018.
In reply to Nevis-the-cat:
Its probably verbatim and close to the mark with the Labour Ex-Treasury civil servant saying there is no more money.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2010/may/17/liam-byrne-note-successor
Its probably verbatim and close to the mark with the Labour Ex-Treasury civil servant saying there is no more money.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2010/may/17/liam-byrne-note-successor
Post edited at 20:49
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