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Click up

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 Heike 18 Sep 2018

I love the click up for sport climbing nowadays. Really great device. However, we have worn down the carabiner quite a lot already after only a couple of years and I have a feeling it makes the rope really dirty - the metal being eroded and depositing on the rope. Can't clean the rope at all (despite a couple of efforts) and you get really dirty hands. Is it the krab? We bought an Edelrid Bullet to replace the worn karabiner, but it doesn't work quite as well. Still ok in assisting belaying, but not perfect. Any thoughts? I.e. is it the karabiner making the rope minging;  Should we just buy a replacement or any other replacement karabiner suggestions?

Cheers

Heike

 Robert Durran 18 Sep 2018
In reply to Heike:

Maybe you could get a steel krab that would work? after all, weight isn't an issue when sport climbing.

Having said that, not noticed this problem with my (brilliant!) Click-Up.

Wiley Coyote2 18 Sep 2018
In reply to Heike:

I love the Click Up but I agree with the dirty rope problem although mine  cleaned up OK after washing it in Beal rope wash (no doubt other makes are as good, that's just the one in the shop I went to)  and pulling through a rope brush a few times.  But I have  not had the wear problem with the krab (yet). Where do you climb? I did notice the rope had worn a groove in my Belay Master after a long Kaly trip. I suspect we were not careful enough in keeping the rope out of the sand and grit but that was using an ATC

Post edited at 22:58
OP Heike 18 Sep 2018
In reply to Robert Durran:

Yeah, you said this the other day and it got me thinking. I am not sure whether we got our rope so dirty the first time last year in Sardinia that we can't get it clean or whether it's the device. I have never had such a dirty rope in all my time climbing. I don't mind a bit of dirt, but that is just weird. Maybe the rope is rubbish? Need to get another "round" krab though for perfect use of this great device!

 

Post edited at 23:01
OP Heike 18 Sep 2018
In reply to Wiley Coyote2:

We climb all over Scotland, the UK and Europe. Mainly trad, but lots of sport on holidays and the wall during the week.

 CPH 19 Sep 2018
In reply to Heike:

Search forums: Grigri and discoloured rope.

I use a Click up all the time and need to replace the carabiner (with the correct Climbing Technology one) every few years. That's no problem.

Re. dirty rope; have a look at the discussions from above. Main culprits seem to be aluminium carabiners (at lower offs or belay carabiner) and rope dye/treatment and dirt/sand/grit in rope.

 beardy mike 19 Sep 2018
In reply to Heike: I think the main thing with the click up is using a round bar carabiner with a neutral shape, no lightening features or rib in the upper basket. When designed the bulletproof, we had to raise the stainless part up a bit to prevent wear of the aluminium so it would tend to catch a bit in the click up... so not surprised it didn’t work so well.

 

 TobyA 19 Sep 2018
In reply to beardy mike:

> When designed the bulletproof, we had to raise the stainless part up a bit to prevent wear of the aluminium so it would tend to catch a bit in the click up... so not surprised it didn’t work so well.

That's not quite clear - did you design the bullet proof? They look very cool.

In Alan's recent UKC review of the bulletproof krabs I think he notes the HMS one doesn't work well with certain belay devices - can't remember if said the click up specifically though.

 

In reply to Heike:

You make some good comments and I too have experienced the wearing of the Click-up krab which does seem slightly disproportionate to the durability of the rest of the device. I also tried using the Edelrid Bulletproof like you when doing the Bulletproof review we just published, and found that it does work ok, but there is some slippage when locked. The Bulletproof is just a bit too narrow, probably by only a fraction of a millimetre. This does indicate the way these things works means that the grab is key to the locking procedure.

I have emailed Stefano at Climbing Technology who responds well to this sort of feedback and highlighted this thread.

We will be getting the new Click-up+ next month to test and that promises to be an improvement on the Click-up. Having used one at the trade show in the summer, it is definitely an incredibly smooth feed.

Alan

 beardy mike 19 Sep 2018
In reply to TobyA:

Yeah I did most of the initial shaping of the Bulletproof HMS (not the initial Bulletproof), then they took back over once we got to productionising it. They were relying on selling an all stainless biner called the Bruce to work with the MegaJul, so wanted a lighter solution.

 Pineappledog 19 Sep 2018
In reply to Heike:

I'm a huge fan of the click-up and preach it to anyone, I didn't spot anything new on the plus specification about combating the erosion on the krab, you can get exact replacements though.

https://www.alpinetrek.co.uk/climbing-technology-concept-sgl-hc-screw-gate-...

The carabiner on mine is pretty worn now but was planning on just getting the plus as soon as it becomes available over here (or trying to order one from Italy if I get impatient)

 cambromo 19 Sep 2018
In reply to Pineappledog:

I think the plus is out mate, released in August I think. 

https://m.needlesports.com/83460/products/climbing-technology-click-up-plus...

 Chris Craggs Global Crag Moderator 19 Sep 2018
In reply to Heike:

> I love the click up for sport climbing nowadays. Really great device. However, we have worn down the carabiner quite a lot already after only a couple of years and I have a feeling it makes the rope really dirty - the metal being eroded and depositing on the rope.

I have thought about this, my mate Colin mentioned the aluminium oxide being deposited on the rope and making it dirty. But two things occurred to me - the volume of metal eroded is tiny, surely not enough to coat a rope. And the metal in question is some shiny aluminium alloy, why does the rope go black?

I think something else must be  at work, though not sure what?

Chris

 

 Rick Graham 19 Sep 2018
In reply to Chris Craggs:

> I have thought about this, my mate Colin mentioned the aluminium oxide being deposited on the rope and making it dirty. But two things occurred to me - the volume of metal eroded is tiny, surely not enough to coat a rope. And the metal in question is some shiny aluminium alloy, why does the rope go black?

> I think something else must be  at work, though not sure what?

> Chris

One ( only ) of my ropes has gone black and will not wash out. 

My best guess is that this is caused by a dark anodised belay krab which I have not used on other ropes.

 cambromo 19 Sep 2018
In reply to Chris Craggs:

If you push your thumb over the top of the carabiner you'll get black crap all over your thumb, that being said my ropes arent massively dirty or black and any dirt that was on it was cleaned off

Post edited at 15:08
 CPH 19 Sep 2018
In reply to Chris Craggs:

mmm...it's Black Rope Syndrome...that's a new one on me.

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/2065143/Black-Rope-Syndrome-what-s-...

But cause still not clear I think.

Post edited at 15:16
 jimtitt 19 Sep 2018
In reply to Chris Craggs:

> I have thought about this, my mate Colin mentioned the aluminium oxide being deposited on the rope and making it dirty. But two things occurred to me - the volume of metal eroded is tiny, surely not enough to coat a rope. And the metal in question is some shiny aluminium alloy, why does the rope go black?

> I think something else must be  at work, though not sure what?

> Chris


Aluminium oxide in the thickness on  piece of aluminium is transparent (or nearly so) as it is around 5nm thick an a nano-film, because the substrate is shiny you don´t really see it. A thicker layer on a non-reflective substrate has a different refractive index and shows up as black. The oxide itself is white in powder from which is why it is used to colour white paint (and toothpaste) but in other crystalline forms black  (carborundum) or with the right trace minerals it becomes rubies or sapphires.

The same effect occurs with stainless steel where the oxide appears to be clear but work with it all day and clearly it isn´t! You can usefully use the change in colour with oxide thickness to heat-tint stainless, if you want a brown bolt (as the Americans sometimes prefer) you merely heat it in air and the oxide layer becomes thicker and the colour changes through pale straw, gold, brown and to dark magenta depending on the temperature. More commonly we see this effect on motorcycle exhausts and camping pans which have been overheated.

Returning to the Click-Up and the karabiner, apart from the discolouring of the rope once the hard-anodising on the karabiner is worn through it leaves a sharp step which begins to "shave" the rope and lowering with an older rope you notice rope-coloured dust on your hands, time for a new karabiner!

 

 beardy mike 19 Sep 2018
In reply to jimtitt:

Hey Jim - are you sure it's a hard anodised carabiner? To me it always seemed to be more of a coating rather than an anodised layer as it seems to chip off? Could be totally wrong though... - to be fair they do say a "hard coat anodising" on the website, I had just assumed it was something else by the way the biner wore...

Post edited at 17:28
 jimtitt 19 Sep 2018
In reply to beardy mike:

Well that´s what they say and it seems to be like any other hard-anodising I´ve seen (I worked in the aluminium fabrication industry for many years). The only coated products in climbing hardware I know of are the BD XP belay devices though there must be more.

 Chris Craggs Global Crag Moderator 19 Sep 2018
In reply to jimtitt:

Nice one - thanks for the knowledgeable input.

I assume the krabs are not aluminium, but some more exotic alloy?

Chris

 beardy mike 19 Sep 2018
In reply to jimtitt:

Fair enough - as I say, mine just kind of chipped like it was a dipped coating so assumed it wasn't anodising as I've never seen anodising chip...

 Rick Graham 19 Sep 2018
In reply to beardy mike:

Getting back on topic of "black" ropes.

My rope is not stained on the last 1.5 metres at each end and evenly stained over the rest.

The belay plate/click up/belay krab would not rub evenly over all this length unless all single pitch sport routes were exactly half a rope length.

My latest guess is that it is wear off lower off krabs/rings or possibly the rock.

 CPH 19 Sep 2018
In reply to jimtitt:

I see from the supertopo link above that you (I presume it was you) call the black stuff 'smut' in the aluminium industry. Nice.


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