UKC

Hi All,

Looking for somewhere in France to establish myself as a resident before Brexit Day. 

Please - no talk about how crap or awesome brexit is

Open to anywhere, really, but would be helpful if there are jobs for English speakers since I'll have my brother in tow and he'll need work (I'm freelance). 

Would be moving late Jan.

Would be nice to have a bit of buzz but I don;t need a party scene. Obviously somewhere I can climb but the more outdoors activities the better. 

Sorry if this could be posted in a different forum, appreciate any help

Hi

I live near Briançon, and love it, its perfect for me but I also know others that live all over the alps and they love where they live, each area will have plus's and minuses depending on what exactly you are looking for.

When you say climbing do you mean alpine, sports or both? What other activities are you interested in kayaking, ski (touring/piste) and walking?

Skiing, this is a big thing in most parts of the alps do you ski? are you looking for big resorts with lots of K's of runs or smaller cheaper resorts?

You say you work freelance does that mean you need to be near transport links or you can work online (need good wifi)?

For your brother does he have a skill set he want's to use e.g. builder or will it be what ever is an option.

What do you mean by buzz? lots of people to climb with or partying and going out?

I am happy to help with info about where I live, let me know bit more about what you are after and I can try and help.

cheers Rob

Thanks Rob. I should say I'm not necessarily looking for somewhere permanent (although it could become the case if I love the place), so somewhere that would be a good entry to French life with lots of options and variety would be best I think. 

I'm more of a sport climber right now but I am keen to get into alpinism. I love to run, cycle (road and trail), ski and would be keen to get into paragliding too. 

As far as skiing goes I guess I'd be looking for somewhere to give me a broad range of options to explore. I'm a novice, but I do take to it quite naturally and am sure that with some time I would become a good skier. 

I just need wifi, my brother would be looking for unskilled work - whatever is available until his language gets good enough. 

By buzz I don't mean partying, but just somewhere with enough atmosphere and yeah, easy enough to meet people and make friends to do things with. 

Thanks for your help!

You might want to check what your legal status would be, post brexshit.

Trust me, I am on the case! I'm probably setting myself up as an auto entrepreneur before Brexit, paying taxes etc. Things will have to get really bad before the French start kicking people out who were legally resident before Brexit. 

And where might he go to check that? Is there a crystal ball somewhere I don't know about? Still ... five months to go, plenty of time to sort EVERYTHING out!

This is a good point. The whole thing is incredibly stressful because it is such a moving target.

My plan is to be legally resident before Brexit and not reliant on an employer giving me a work permit if the shit hits the fan... then it's a case of hoping for the best. 

Yes all the time in the world  

But two very well inormed fb groups for a start. The most relevant for him is RIFT which has members from all walks of life and who are at every stage of trying to get titres de séjour - from those just thinking about it as he is - to going through the process and obtaining their cartes , all keen to share their experiences. What is amazing (or maybe isn't...) is that all departements/préfectures have different requirements, methods and timescales! However better to be reasonably well informed than not at all.

RIFT is proving enormously helpful.

What's the other one?

I wish i knew, I suppose it all depends on what line the UK take with EU foreign nationals living here and expect that to be reciprocated by the EU member states

I can't see France etc. taking an automatic hard line on existing resident UK foreign nationals (increased taxes, limiting property ownership) but imagine they would look to do something after the event, with possibly some sort of minimum time in the country before such things kick in.

France has given itself 12 months to pass legislation concerning UK citizens in the event of no deal. It will be reciprocal.

If there is a deal we've got the status quo until at least 2021.

So chances are France and the UK just carry on as normal then ? I would imagine others will follow suit, the travel industry alone has millions if not billions to lose if things tighten up more than they are now

This is turning into a chat about Brexit!

But no. Tory minister giving evidence yesterday said employers will have to prove that EU nationals have the right to be and work here. When asked how they would do this she had no clue. The level of incompetence combined with what appears to be an institutional scale distrust of EU citizens in the UK within the Tory party means that things could go very badly indeed.

If there is no deal then UK workers in France (regardless of when they arrived) are going to need work permits, among other things, unless bilateral agreements are made.

Well in fairness its the crux of the matter !

Personally i would love to see it not happen, speaking as somebody who works for a UK company that exports to the EU, travels there on business and has engineers based there. 

I also have dream of living in mainland EU one day, looks like i need to retire at 49 after all

The crux of this thread is where I should relocate to

Nothing stopping you doing the same by the way

It might be but your question throws up a lot of issues.

France has it's own economic challenges and a huge unemployment rate especially among the young so I'm not sure what luck your brother as an unskilled non-French speaker would have.

It's not clear what sector you freelance in either. Setting up as a freelancer is a big task here (my wife essentially runs her own SARL and contracts for a UK company) and I'm not sure how possible it even is before you move here (or at least have an address you can use).

FWIW, somewhere like Grenoble has some big employers in the tech and consulting sectors, has a large student population and a lot of international workers. It's my nearest big town although I'm lucky to technically work for a multinational in Paris but with flexible home working.

What exactly is it you're trying to escape? Do you just think the UK will tank after Brexit? Do you want to keep the option of living in another country? 

If you're serious, start learning the language - now. 

The other is Applying for French Nationality which isn't relevant as you need 5 years residency. It does however also have folk seeking titres de séjour as a temporary measure while their nationality dossiers go through the system - and of course they are refused.

I'm on top of the technical issues. My brother will have to take his chances. I can try to employ him via my UK business if he can't find work and if that fails, at least he tried.

What I need help with is the exciting bit: choosing where to live!

But nobody can tell you. Just suggestions but you need to do some leg work yourself. Like I said - Grenoble is a good option as it has a great mix of civilisation and nearby mountains although I wouldn't want to live in the city (I live in the Vercors) as the air quality is poor and it's got some sketchy areas.

You could get away with living in a ski resort if you were managing to work completely remotely so somewhere like the Three Valleys will have lots of rich Brits and Russians who might want your brother to do handy work.

However, ski resorts are dull outside of the main seasons and the French as a rule don't really do 'buzz'. 

You've not mentioned budget either. Are you buying or renting a place?

We've bought in SW France, near St Chinian.

We did this prior to the referendum, but hopefully we'll be able to continue as we are for a while until I can semi retire.

We've got the Pyrenees for skiing and mountaineering, the Med coast 30 minutes away, more limestone than you could ever see in a lifetime, loads of great walking and cycling and views to die for. It's also much quieter than the SE and houses are half the price. 

There's a decent choice of airports and airlines to get you back to the UK if you need to, and the drive down the A76 is only partly tolled.

It was an easy decision for us once we'd visited.

I'm renting. I'm frugal so cheap is good. I'd love to be able to run from my door into nature.

I'm touring for 3 weeks in November and just looking for advice and inspiration, not asking you to choose for me

Grenoble is on the list but air quality issue worries me. How is it one the outskirts?

Interesting.

SW France is definitely on the list of possibilities. 

I've climbed a fair few of the crags down that way too. Lucky bugger.

Ain't that the truth!

Hi jon, do you mean the titre de séjour applications are refused or the nationality dossiers are refused?

Sorry I added that last bit too quickly and it doesn't make sense. Should read: 

... while their nationality dossiers go through the system - or of course if their nationality dossiers are refused. It typically takes 6 months-ish (from préfectural interview) to get a refusal (depending on préfecture) and up to 2 years to get an acceptance, so a titre de séjour is a good stop gap measure. 

This is what I'm doing at the moment - essentially its permanent residency (I've been here 7 years) because if there's a no-deal Brexit we could be left hanging.

Citizenship is a goal but as you say takes a long time. There's also the issue that if the rules change during your application, you go back to square one.

Hi 

So ignoring the brexit stuff (It is kind of important to think about though as you could speed a lot of money and not last long)

For Briançon area so I am including Vallouise valley and maybe down as for as the Queyras, 

On the sports climbing front it has loads to go at over 3300 sports routes over 6 different rock types, single pitch routes and up to 23 pitch multi pitch route, the venues are spaced out with a great range of altitudes and aspects so you can climb for most of the year some where.

Alpinism - you have the Écrins nation park with peak around the 4000 meter mark and a range of mountaineering options, great for some starting out, but not as great form alpine rock as other venues.

For other activities there are loads to go at walking you have the Écrins national park and the queyras regional park both amazing area's to walk and run and lots of great mountain terrain in between.

Kayaking is really popular here with some of the best white water in France.

Road biking this world area is famous for the mountain stages of the tour, it comes through most years, 

MTB is good mainly peddle power, there is some lift feed stuff but its not as goos as other areas in the alps, but because of that its quite.

Skiing there are a few big resorts such as Serre Che and then lots of small resorts such as puy saint vincent and lots of tiny resorts to play with. and not far away la grave as an off piste resort. For ski touring lots of option with the Écrins, Cerce and Queyras there is a life time of touring to be had.

weather wise it gets generally better more settled weather than the northern alps.

Now the not so good points.

Transport links - its not as easy to access as other areas in the French Alps, but Turin is at most 2 hours away and that fly's to the UK daily.

Wifi can be poor if you get out in the sticks 

Work for your brother? there is seasonal work available here, but not as much as some of the bigger ski resort areas, and as most of the young local speak good English there is the need as such for just English speakers so he would have to work on his French.

Buzz - as someone said the French don't really do Buzz, Briançon and Serre Che ski resorts in winter have more night life and social scene, but can be quite in summer, places like vallouise have a few bars and can be social especially in summer. its more about make friend and spending time see them, than going out etc. 

sorry for the long post but hopefully that helps a little, feel free to ask question on here or email me rob@dream-trails.com also I am working at a stand at the Kendal mountain festival representing this area if you are around there we could chat.

If you want to move in Jan you should really be out visiting some place to see how they feel to you?

Briancon is amazing.Check out the town of Embrun or the bigger one of Gap .A love of winter sports would be good.The Ariege or somewhere west of Perpignan would be good.Nearer to Spain and better sport climbing conditions in winter.

i asked for email updates from the French gov on remaining in France after Brexit. They are saying that remaining in France will much depend on how the Uk gov treates French Nationals in the Uk on a no_brexit deal. As this is the current situation, they have advised to apply for residency (carte sejour) immediately, otherwise (on a no deal) the max I could stay without a visa is 90 days. There is also an issue about passport validity, but no rules will be forthcomng to clarify this..

John C

Large numbers of young Brits work seasons in ski resorts, with their main qualifications being speaking English and being willing to work long hours for low pay in order to live in a ski resort. They don't seem to have competition from the French.

'Large numbers of young Brits work seasons in ski resorts, with their main qualifications being speaking English and being willing to work long hours for low pay in order to live in a ski resort. They don't seem to have competition from the French'

And the British companies that employ them are currently panicking about how they will replace them after Brexit.

Thats a bit of a sore point in some ski areas, lots of young Brits have a great time working a winter season but they do it for one or two season and then normally end up "getting a proper job" for seasonal work the wage is very low (beer tokens) and supplement by accommodation and a ski pass, which is great for young Brits but it means that the local french who pay a mortgage or have kids etc can afford to do the job (they don't need accommodation or lift passes). There was talk of the French clamping down on this and insisting that any jobs working in France are at French minimum wage and conditions (of which you can include accommodation but its a very small set % under French law), In the end I think they dropped it as they worked out it would have an effect on the cost of skiing in France and this could effect number.
 

I am not saying if its a good or bad thing just pointing it out.

Like others have said, you can't compare a 20 year old taking a year out to someone (British or otherwise) who plans to live in the area for any significant length of time.

I don't live in a 'resort' but my village has ski lifts and the people who run them in  winter are all locals - many of them do 2-3 different jobs throughout the year according to the season (lumberjacks, plumbers, chefs, running gites, centres des vacances or working for the local commune). It's those kinds of jobs the OP's brother is going to be having to look for and in rural areas not speaking the language would put him at a serious disadvantage.

Thanks for this Rob - really helpful. 

I may well be at Kendal this year so will come say hi if I can make it. 

Grenoble

Air pollution not too bad for you?

I live in london