UKC

Kingussie Crag

On the off chance that whoever’s been tooling at Kingussie crag is reading this, please don’t do it again. There are some great established tooling venues in Scotland and this isn’t one of them. 

Also, you need to work on your footwork.

Amen

Most Scottish crags seem now to be fair game.

Shocking behaviour. How do people not know this, you have to wait for at least a sprinkling of snow or a few patches of rime AND THEN all Scottish rock is fair game. 

A blunt tool?

Why o why? Muppets

pretty sure these are old luca, were about where they? 

totally agree though it is definitely not a dry tooling crag

I remember seeing scratches at the bottom of The Block and maybe The Groove a few years ago now, so nothing new if it's the same location but still poor form. 

Noticed similar scratches on the first pitch of Pinnacle Ridge at Polldubh about a year ago and wondering why anyone would want to dry tool on a route like that? 

Scratches on polldubh all unwelcome but some certainly  decades old.

Before jumping to conclusions think. 

There was a big hoo harr a few years ago about dry tooling at St Bees. It turned out to be fishermen wearing studded wellies to cope with the greasy platform. 

Technical question, when does lean mixed climbing become dry tooling? 

They looked pretty new to me, scratches on Right Hand Crack and lots at the top clearly where they belayed and stood about on the ledge. 

Presley Whippet: If anyone managed to climb that route in studded wellies, well, then they deserve the tick I suppose. The spacing and shape are definitely front points. 

summo: I would be the first to admit I will climb in lean mixed conditions, and that a light rime covering does nothing to protect the rock. Kingussie is a valley level rock climbing venue with no history of winter routes. The difference between Kingussie and one of the acceptable early season Cairngorm crags near by is that they have a history of that lean style of climbing and established routes which its ok to climb in lean conditions.

As long as the rocks are well frozen from a safety point of view, as no should be climbing loose chockstones and rubble gullies, then I think It's fair game as soon as they are frosted. Even bare rock on the route is acceptable if you are climbing an ice and turf line and not just tooling for the sake of pulling on your axes.

I agree. I just think it is a contentious issue with no distinct line to cross. How many good quality rock climbs have never been winter climbed until the last 20 years and are now grade 8,9,10 test pieces. Granted they don't see much traffic. 

The reality is climbing is just so popular now. We are all wearing down the crags and paths in one form or another. 

For me if some higher body wants to declare a crag axe and crampon free that's fine with me. But also I'm not offended by scratches, it's just rock any way in the big scheme of things. I am more concerned with the progressive removal of all earth and plant life from winter routes, these are more precious habitats where plants get chance to grow out the way of over grazing sheep and deer, often in unique environmental conditions.

Milder or leaner winters will only increase this cleaning. Summer climbing causes damage too, it's just different. Polish, enlarged stances, erosion at base of crags effectively lowering the ground level, footpaths, tree damage, conflicts with nesting, increased land use for car parking and so on. I think people are selective in what they consider bad. 

What ratio grass to rock? 

Are you talking pencoed pillar, more grass than a farmers field, or engineers slab, just strand or two of grass in the very back of the V groove? 

You see my point, it's just so subjective. 

An indistinct line isn't the same as no line though, and shades of grey in the middle don't mean there isn't black and white at the ends. 

Wherever the 'no distinct line' lies exactly there clearly are crags where there's an established consensus that dry tooling is ok, and others where it's unambiguously not on.

This is very true, it is very subjective. But there are also crags where it isn't subjective at all. And I think this is one of those occasions where there should be no doubt.

I think when it's subjective, education is the key, which is what I was after here, as opposed to persecution. A strong backlash isn't going to make anyone listen to subtle arguments.