UKC

Sitting here watching this man forensically dismantling "The Deal". How tragic he does not lead his party.

Yes, I enjoy listening to people with forensic minds like his.

I’m working at home today with BBC news channel running in the corner of the screen. I actually stopped and paid attention while Keir Starmer was at the Despatch Box. He carries himself well, seems really well briefed, and speaks with authority. Kind of like an old school ‘big beast’. Corbyn was constantly in frame, wondering ‘how does he do that? and thinking wistfully of being an uncooperative backbencher when his entire world was activist meetings in Islington pubs. It’ll come Jezza😂

I haven't heard his speech yet, I was shuffling along Pall Mall while he was talking, but I'd expect an impressive performance from someone who used to be Director of Public Prosecutions.

I heard him speak in the flesh once and he wasn't bad but the politician I've heard who was head and shoulders above the rest was Alan Johnson.

The real tragedy is that so many didn't follow his lead and work with the leader the membership had chosen.

Leader? Which Leader?

I lost all respect for the guy after the David Nutt affair. Beneath contempt.

Did he get him sacked as an advisor? I didn't know that.

Yes, the triumph of policy-based evidence.

Would have been with you, but went down with a touch of man flu.

All Starmer has done is spout pretty words while being complicit in - and complacent about - Labour's abdication of responsibility.

The one who won two landslide leadership elections. You might not like him, and half his MPs might agree with you, but if they hadn't decided to fight the members there might be a credible left in English politics for the first time in 30 years, with the strength to successfully campaign for a choice between a soft (customs union) brexit or remain, instead of the mess in offer from Boris, and a chance at keeping the UK intact.

As opposed to the one that actually won three general elections, that is, among the whole country, not just his party, and would have pushed unequivocally for remain.

If he did, I would even consider voting Labour. Wouldn't  do so with Corbyn in charge. Harsh maybe, but true

I said a credible left, not a credible labour party. New Labour were Tory Lite.

Who define left? They were Europhiles, and a left that I would vote for.

Ah, I see. It's the majority of the country who's at fault for not falling into line and agreeing with Mr Corbyn?

^^^ This! We need politicians with experience and gravitas more than ever right now. I suspect that if Keir Starmer was leader of the Labour Party we'd be having a general election and putting this shit to bed for once and for all. Starmer vs Johnson: no contest. Boris Johnson is an intellectual lightweight who couldn't win an argument with my 13 year-old-kid (who is well-briefed but somewhat inexperienced when it comes to telling old Etonians to f*ck right off).

When Corbyn was a back bencher he made a career out of going against the party line, only now it's unacceptable for other mps to do the same? 

Ps. The reason this is happening is because he isn't a Leader, just a back bencher whose been put in the post. It doesn't matter if 60 million UK residents voted for him, it doesn't change his attributes or ability. 

There in lies the problem. 

Corbyn, McDonnell and a few others should stand by their convictions and form a socialist party. See how many really want their policies and aren't just voting for the red rosette regardless of who is wearing it. 

A fantastic strong leader like Corbyn would have no problem building a great party and following?  

They were centre right, and would be seen as such in most other European nations. It's only because they facilitated the rightwards shift in English politics that you see them as left.

No, you don't see. I said it's the fault of the Blairite MPs for failing to back their membership's choice of leader. I didn't mention the voting public, either directly or by implication. 

There was a traditional socialist party with a great following, it was taken to the right, why shouldn't it be taken back?

Surely the Blairites would have no problem building a great centre-right party and following, if that's what the public really wants?

Well, the public clearly don't want a traditional socialist party, as it's been 45 years since Labour won an election without Blair at the helm. 

Today's politics in the UK is no longer characterised by left-right in the traditional way. It's characterised by Brexit, with the main ideological split being whether EU membership is seen as a beneficial working together with neighbours for collective gain, or constricting UK ability to be more effective alone.

Apart from his personality which doesn't seem suited to effective leadership, my main problem with Corbyn is that he's failed to communicate how and why EU membership makes it impossible for him to implement his dream policies; the ones we've seen so far generally have a lot in their favour but as far as I can tell can all be implemented while still in the EU, while still retaining all of the positives of membership.

PMSL.

A bit rich coming from a member of the SNP.

If you're such a great "socialist" why not act on your convictions and join the SSP?

No reason at all. So if it's not the policies that are the issue it must be the leadership? Therefore a change of leadership is required to communicate why the Tories are so toxic, why the democratic deficit in this country is not between the UK voters and the EU but between a very small, very rich minority and the rest and why more socialist policies can be worked without trashing the economy. 

The world has changed. Hadn't you noticed?

Fortunately in my constituency the question doesn't arise - tactical voting here needed to keep the tory out.

I share your view - in common with many others I look at Corbyn and don't see a PM. Felt the same about Kinnock, what with that ridiculous premature victory nonsense in 1992 and falling in the sea and then  offering the TV cameras a V-sign. 

Problem is Corbyn and McDonnell are the odd ones out, not the other way round. It's just suited them to coast along taking the easy route, even if they've disagreed with the party and its leaders for the last 30 plus years. Hardly the hallmark of a strong leader or aspirant PM.

Labour hasn't won anything on a socialist ticket since 1975.. there might be a reason for It?

Corbyn is not in the same league as Kinnoch who took on militant tendency (momentum?) and engaged with the media to appeal to supporters rather than members.

Accept that, and have respect for the man. Still didn't make him a credible PM.

I may have to agree.

Agreed

However sadly I wouldn't be surprised if he is subjected to a trigger vote and deselection for not being left wing enough and not agreeing with Corbyn 100%  of the time.

I am coming around to the same view. I respect Corbyn, I like his policies, I respect him as an MP who appears to have principles (zero expenses fraud issues, voting record I agree with - anti-iraq war, anti-austerity) and if you actually listen to his speaches he is a fairly gifted orator. I actually don't think he would be a bad leader either if we were not in a world of personality politics.

BUT. I need another 15 million people to agree with me for him to win an election, and they are not around.

The behaviour by many members of his own party in attacking him continuously was frankly abysmal, as were the daily attack articles in the Guardian, which should be ashamed of itself. However justified or not, vast damage has been done to him and his brand (largely by people who should have know a lot better and should never have engaged in such tactics in the first place), and I think the chance of a genuinely socialist left-leaning labour party has passed us by - if the party had got behind him I think we could have had something really great.

So, if Labour are going to win, they need to shift right again, at least for the election. I hate the fact I'm typing this, as for a short while I actually had some hope. If this is done, Corbyn is not the person to be at the top.

I agree with so many of Corbyn's Labour policies but I cannot forget 7 out of 10, refusing to share a platform with tories, going on holiday, all during the referendum campaign nor his calling for Article 50 on the very first day after losing. I've been on 2 giant marches in London and looked in vain for Corbyn. For each of the marchers there'll be at least a dozen who would've been there if they could.

We need Achilles to come out of his tent but unfortunately he's pitched it on an island with no ferry service on Saturday and no signal. 

If Corbyn is a leader whom exactly is he supposed to be leading? 

Corbyn lacks charm and I despair at how many times he looks exasperated with the media. If he can't charm the voters through the media his strengths are electorally worthless. 

Corbyn won't be there for ever (nor very long at all if Labour won a GE).

John McDonnell will be the man.

I have been waiting for at least a year now for McDonnell to stab Corbyn in the back. He has the look of an assassin, doesn't he?

I think he's playing the long game keeping his powder dry. Of the pair he's far more dangerous, his views if anything are further left but he also has a bit more about him than Corbyn. A wily fox.