UKC

I was at Blaen-y-Nant today at the head of the Crafnant. We watched as a group of trials bikes came down the bridleway from Capel, then crossed the field (on a footpath) to the car park.

I filmed them on my phone stood outside the hut, but didn't say anything. One of them stopped and told me to film his numberplate, at which point I asked him if he knew he come down a bridleway. This was his cue to launch into a long rant about how he was "always getting this" and that the path over "is a UCR" and how I should check the definitive map online at Conwy council. He then drove off to join his pals. I looked at the map on the council website but can't see anywhere that it says it's definitive and it's not overlaid on top of an OS map. From what I can see he drove down a bridleway and onto a footpath. There were no other classifications of rights of way in the area.

I'm guessing they drove over on the newly laid path to Crimpau then dropped over to Crafnant. 

Emailed Conwy council, but I'm not hopeful of any signage or other enforcement activity taking place.

Would there be any point in notifying the police?

See my recent post on a walk I had last week in the Moelwyns. A growing problem.

As far as I can see, some cyclists are taking over all footpaths and even pavements.

As far as I can see, some people struggle with reading. 

Yes, if your OS map shows the track he was using to be a Bridleway. If the motorcyclist believes that designation to be wrong the onus is on him to prove he has a right to use it. The police are more likely to assign resources to looking into this kind of alleged illegal activity if more people report it.

Actually the thread title doesn't suggest wheels at all, more like adventurous walkers.

Is it not just trespass?

My understanding is that if I choose to ride my MTB on a footpath that is Trespass (if I need to use a section of footpath I will dismount unless there aren't any people around and it's the sort of ground that really should be, or is regularly used like, a bridleway).

Does the presence of an engine make it a criminal offence?

I was quite disappointed. Hoping to find a brand new hidden scramble discovered somewhere in Crafnant. 

No. Trespass is not a criminal offense, so the police won't be interested. It's a civil issue for the landowner.

Seems to be policed in some areas:

https://www.beacons-npa.gov.uk/the-authority/press-and-news/archive/2009-2/...

It may be that there are specific bylaws in the Brecons since they are a National Park. It'll be interesting to see what they are charged with. I'm also a bit confused that some were "...reported for not having licences, proper insurance and illegal registration plates" - if they weren't on public highways then the above are not relevant (as far as I know). It's also possible that they might have committed 'aggravated trespass' which is a different kettle of fish. Hard to tell from the article.

Use of motorised vehicles on Footpaths and Bridleways is a criminal matter for the police, use of pedal cycles on Footpaths is a civil matter of trespass for the landowner

The Definitive Map is a legal document and you would have to go to the council offices to inspect it.  However councils' online mapping is usually accurate and you can rely on it for most purposes.  The difference is that in a legal case it could not be used in evidence, only the Definitive Map itself is definitive.

Conwy's mapping shows the path over from Capel Curing (route code 32/54) is a bridleway, and the only other PRoWs around there (apart from the road) are footpaths, so it looks like your biker was mistaken. 

There is also an option to show an OS map as the background, and you can report issues on a PRoW on the website.

Thanks, I did just that and had an email from the council, which I replied to with the bridleway number and grid ref.

I hadn't realised that motorised vehicles are treated differently. I makes sense, but I've never considered 'sense' to be a good guide to 'legal'.

Live and learn!

Well nobody saw this coming. https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/hill_talk/capel_curig_-_crafnant_path_upd...

F***ing well done, snpa. Really. Well f***ing done.

I wonder if matey who stopped was convinced that he was driving on an unclassified road because that's whatit looks like at the other end?

E2A although the drop from Crimpiau into Crafnant should have given him a clue...

Avon and Somerset Police are quite happy to deal with this sort of thing, having reported stuff to them before.

Half a dozen motorbikes came past us last November before the bridleway was 'improved'. Their number plates were covered in mud though.

Having done a lot of green laning myself over the years i learnt that OS maps do not show all classifications of rights of ways, a footpath marked on an OS map does not mean it is just a footpath, nor a footpath sign at the beginning of the track, it merely shows that there is a footpath along that route. To check actual rights of way you need to check the council records, same the other way as well, a BOAT on a map does not mean it is still a legal right of way so if riding any trails it is always best to check first.