UKC

Some time ago I asked for advice on buying a new gravel bike (https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/biking/new_bike_advice-746584?v=1#x962433... ). Since then I've been a regular visitor to the local bike shops all of whom say they've been having problems ordering both bikes & components,and none had anything suitable in stock.

Now one of them has contacted me to say they have something in stock (delivered yesterday) which I think is https://konaworld.com/rove_dl.cfm , I have to go into town tomorrow so will have a look & maybe a trial ride if that's possible. The shop have also proposed several possible changes -

1 - Replacing the single front chainring with a double chain ring - would cost a bit more as that means a front derailleur plus cable & shift but would give a wider range of gears. That would be useful as I live in the Alps & climbs are often steep &/or long but am I being too influenced by my older bikes where the only way to get a good range was with a double or triple chainset as cassettes only had 5 or 6 cogs compared to 10plus today.

2 - replacing the steel forks by carbon forks. Would save weight, at a price, but would the difference be noticeable ?

3- 700c wheels rather than the supplied 650c. Other than on a mountain bike I've always had 700c wheels but given I'm small (160 cm) maybe the smaller wheels would be better

4 - change the tyres (47c)  to something narrower to be better on roads. I used to use 700 x 32 on a touring bike which was used for what then was called 'rough stuff' cycling but maybe a bit narrow by modern standards?

Any thoughts ?

In reply to Doug:

1. I wouldnt bother, just means you will run out of gears on fast road descents though

2. Depends on terrain you are riding, steel forks have done for me on gravel bikes these last 5 years 

3. Go for 700c wheels

4. Again, depends on what you want - I ride on gravel fire trails in Scotland predominantly, I have narrow tyres compared to the "new norm" when I go out with others, its hasn't proved a hinderence, except once, when out with MTB guys and I sunk in a bog  they floated over.

5. Enjoy your bike, even if its not the one you see tomorrow - have you EVER heard of a person bemoaning their choice of bike?

Good luck.

In reply to Doug:

1. I have a double ring setup on my gravel-bike, I can see some advantage of a single-ring setup (weight saving / maintenance / wont clog in mud) but yes you will get either a bigger range or smaller gearing steps with a double ring setup.

2. I would go with carbon if you can afford it - I have steel forks on my Surly and whilst they give decent cushioning, I am not sure its better than a carbon fork, its a lot heavier but to be honest the biggest issue is fork flex under (disc) braking, it can result in awful judder, and its not the only bike where I have heard this is an issue.

3. I would stick with 700c unless you are off-road most of the time (at which point I would probably say use a hard-tail MTB anyway...)

4. If you do switch to 700c then I would go with something 35-40mm to give a good balance between on and off road. I would strongly recommend a tubeless setup, a gravel bike with no suspension needs the tyres to not be overinflated when riding off road, which risks pinch-puntures

In reply to Doug:

1 - Replacing the single front chainring with a double chain ring - would cost a bit more as that means a front derailleur plus cable & shift but would give a wider range of gears. That would be useful as I live in the Alps & climbs are often steep &/or long but am I being too influenced by my older bikes where the only way to get a good range was with a double or triple chainset as cassettes only had 5 or 6 cogs compared to 10plus today.

No don't do this.  With the 42t at the back you'll be ok on most things.  Better and much cheaper option would be replace the 40t front ring to something smaller - say 34, 36t.  If you wanted to go double at the front it'll be a shifter (expensive), probably a chainset (expensive) and a derailleur (less expensive).  Will cost a small fortune and not needed.  If you still had an issue, you can change the rear derailleur and get a bigger rear cassette (they come up to something crazy like 50+ now).  That would still be by far a cheaper option than what the bike shop are suggesting by going to a double.

2 - replacing the steel forks by carbon forks. Would save weight, at a price, but would the difference be noticeable ?

Yes do that.  Carbon will be better and lighter.  Something like a Colombus Futura Gravel would be good - also when it says clearance for 40mm tyres, it's talking about 700c normally (but check) so you'll get the 47s on fine with a 650b.  I run my bike with 42s and it says it can only take something tiny like 35.  I've had a 47s on there with a 650b and whilst it was tight, it was fine and these have a bigger clearance than my bike.

3- 700c wheels rather than the supplied 650c. Other than on a mountain bike I've always had 700c wheels but given I'm small (160 cm) maybe the smaller wheels would be better

Stick with the 650b.  I'm 168cm and ride with 650b - they are so much more fun than the 700c which make the bike feel much less playful.  I can switch between mine at will but the 650b's are my go to option.

4 - change the tyres (47c)  to something narrower to be better on roads. I used to use 700 x 32 on a touring bike which was used for what then was called 'rough stuff' cycling but maybe a bit narrow by modern standards?

The supplied tyres will be fine - they look fast rolling and will take out all the lumps and bumps.  I run either Schwalbe Pro Ones in a 40 or WTB Resolute - https://www.wtb.com/collections/gravel-cx/products/resolute.  They both roll fine on the road - it's not as good as a road wheel but not as draggy as you'd expect.

In reply to everone:

Thanks, so sounds like changing the forks is worth considering & I forgot to add that when discussing options,the shop did suggest changing the front chainring from 40 to either 38 or 36 if I stayed with a single chainring - the guy I spoke with knows the area where I usually  cycle quite well as he lives locally.

In reply to Doug:

This may not be particularly helpful but……

The kona rove looks like a super fun bike and hopefully what I want to buy next. However with the upgrade sounds like you are after something more on the road end of the gravel spectrum? With the money you would spend on the upgrades you could probably buy something higher speced without having  to change as much? Seems like there is more supply atm, at least in the UK

In reply to jt232:

It's at the lower end of my allowed budget but other than a carbon framed bike at close to 5000€ (beyond my budget) it seems to be the only bike available without waiting several months (with no promise it'll arrive). There's also a possibility of an ex hire bike but not until the end of the summer & maybe not in a small enough size.

If I buy it I won't go for all the upgrades proposed, probably just the fork.

In reply to Doug:

I know they're not in France - but Ribble have availability on smaller sizes of their Steel framed 105 equipped bike - https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/ribble-endurance-725-disc-sport-green/?child...

In reply to sandrow:

Ditto their aluminium cgr... Which would be a good bet... If doug was UK based. But small size or large size only 

In reply to Dave B:

I have the Steel CGR. Love it to bits (and it has a carbon fork as standard) but only medium and larger available.

In reply to Doug:

Not a huge amount of help but an old social media-type 'friend' from Finland, Toni, who is a semi pro adventure and ultra endurance cyclist https://www.tonilund.fi/ still uses a Kona Rove frame from 2015 as his gravel bike. I'm sure if he didn't like it he would have had loads of opportunities to swap to something else, I saw on Instagram recently he has just updated all the groupset on to GRX, but still the same frame. https://www.instagram.com/p/CeyUR3WtrIT/

I do note though, he does have a carbon fork on his though. I've got a steel fork on my fully rigid mountain bike and it has been great for years, but then I have 650b+ tyres (3 inch at the front) so obviously most cushioning comes from that rather than the fork.

I wouldn't worry about the wheels and tyres too much, 47 is quite fat for a gravel bike but not by any means exceptional. For bikepacking last summer holidays, I got 50mm on the front of mine and I think its a 40 mm on the back. But then left them on for commuting to work through the autumn and winter and I wasn't any slower than with less aggressive 38 mm tyres previously. The fat ones are super comfy as well for riding on gravel and bridleways and the like. 

My experience buying bikes is you agonise over it for ages, finally buy something and instantly it's just fab. Newer bikes just work better in little ways that help loads. For my main bike, last time this was just going from cable discs on my old Boardman to hydraulic discs on my newer one ("newer" because I've had it 3 or so years and Strava tells me its just about to go past 10,000 kms!). If you get the Kona I'm sure you will fall in love, and then you can decide how much you want to spend "pimping your ride" over the next few years!

In reply to Doug:

The thing that would put me off this bike more than anything else would be the brakes. One of the big benefits IMO of hydro brakes is the lack of cable so this and not having a directly hydro compatible shifter/lever set (expensive to replace) would put me off. They are also a bit heavy, for what it's worth on a steel bike with 47mm tyres I'm not sure.

In reply to Doug:

The difference will not be noticeable and your new bike will be a travesty to all that is fair and beautiful in this world.

It could do with better brakes.

In reply to Doug:

I’ve got a single 40T chainring on my ‘cross bike and (I think) a 34 on the back (equates to 34-28 anyway) and it’s absolutely fine. You do run out of gears pedalling downhill above about 30mph but it’s never been a problem for me in reality. Also, on ‘cross you’re limited to 33mm tyres and again, not been a problem. 

In reply to Doug: I'd certainly change the forks to carbon.  I've done it in the past, and it was noticably  impoved .  I hope the P2 is a better fork now than the one I have in my garage with a 1inch steerer.

The drivetrain I'd leave as is.  If you don't like it , fix it later, but see what the shop with local knowledge says as well.  

Give the Ribble stuff a miss.  It's good enough, but if you have any problems, before or after buying, getting stuff in and out of the UK is an extra layer of hassle.  Stick to your local shops, or go Canyon , Rose

Well I had a test ride yesterday afternoon, seemed nice but unable to try any real inclines so can't really comment on the gearing. I'm going to buy it (prefer to use a local shop with a good reputation, just in case.... ) but waiting for quotes on changing the fork & the front chain wheel from 40 to 38 before making a final decision on what,if any, changes to make.

As for the brakes being poor, they're better than any I've had before.

In reply to Doug:

My twopence having recently built up an all steel gravel bike and owning an alu roadbike with carbon forks and rim brakes, an all carbon road bike with hydraulic discs, and an alu hard tail 26" MTB. My gravel riding is all about not being too slow on the roads, but being able to comfortably take on forest fire roads, canal tow paths and the like. Probably what the marketing groups would call 'all-road'. Rides typically 3km - 100km+

If your riding profile it's like mine then do it. A 1x will always be either worse on range, have bigger jumps or both. I don't like not having the right gear if im riding for 10km into a headwind. A double will also give a more efficient drivetrain considering chainline and size of sprockets. Replacement cassettes are also cheaper.  The disadvantage? If you're going over really rough ground then I suspect a 1x would have less chance of dropping (although I've never had an issue, even without modern clutch derailleurs). Having said this, the bike would clearly be ride able with 1x, so you could just ride it as it is and upgrade if and when you fancy - it is potentially a significant cost. 

Would save weight, but how much handling difference you would notice would almost certainly be dependent on the specific forks being swapped. I have been astonished at how plush my steel forks feel, and have zero desire to change them. As above though, you could try it and see what you think. I'd not get rid of the steel forks though - those eyes could come in handy for touring - none of this max 3kg per side nonsense. Frame material can make a big difference, but rather a really well thought out all steel or alu frameset, than a cheap and badly implemented all carbon thing. This is the thing I would be least likely to bother with. 

I put 700c wheels on as that's what I had. I'm pretty averaged sized, certainly not tall and a little heavy. I find they roll great, are nimble and not sluggish but my background is road riding. Again a maybe, but not a must. I think the closer you are to road-plus style riding, the more appealing the 700c, as things get rougher then 650b and wider tyres. In mountain biking I think it's accepted that 29" wheels are almost always faster, but 26" are more fun. 

This is probably where you will see the biggest differences in handling and rolling resistance, and fortunately with the least commitment and cost! For my riding I have 37mm tyres (Terravail Washburn light and supple) with latex tubes and they run great with just over 3 bar in them with a total system weight of probably 105kg. I would definitely recommend latex tubes (unless you're commuting every day where you might not want to have to top up the pressure every third day). I was very surprised at how the bike doesn't seem to flex almost at alleven when out of the saddle, but still eats up gravel paths without rattling me about at all. If it's wetter or muddier then maybe I'd consider going wider, but right now I think I've hit the sweet spot for my type of riding, even I'd it is more by luck than judgement! 

Above all, have fun with it! If the frame rides well then there seems to be lots of potential for tinkering and upgrading, but you can probably do it on your schedule and to your budget. I really like how my gravel bike has opened up a load of new routes to me really close to home - it's a bit like rediscovering the joy and freedom of riding all over again.