UKC

Following the thread about banning shirts off at the wall, I see that the vote is split surprisingly close between Yes, No and Don't care with those in favour of such a ban marginally in the lea.

One of the main arguments in favour seemed to be the smell coming from sweaty unwashed bodies. This applies not only to shirtless bodies, but clothed ones as well, where the smell from old sweat impregnation in shirts is quite gag making at times.

There are some filthy people around who pay little if any attention to their personal hygiene. There is no excuse for this. Yes, some people sweat a lot more than others, but fresh sweat doesn't smell unpleasant, its stale sweat which is the problem. Sweaty people who wash immediately after taking exercise, and put on fresh clothes don't smell unpleasant. 

Maybe smelly people checking into a gym should be told to go and have a shower, and USE soap/shower gel, and put on fresh clothing?

It’s a climbing wall, not a fashion show. Is the occasional whiff of sweat in a large warehouse full of sweaty bodies really such a big deal?

In nearly 14 years of climbing I’m yet to meet anyone I would describe as “filthy people around who pay little if any attention to their personal hygiene”. An occasional waft of BO hardly warrants such unpleasant and judgmental attacks.

Absolutely not. Specially at a time when I thought we were all meant to be trying to save water, energy, money and the planet by being less neurotic about washing clothes and ourselves too frequently

It's a gym. Surely B.O. is normal.  

Somebody at a climbing wall (another punter) once told me off for walking on the mats whilst wearing my street shoes.  I told him that's not a rule, he said it's not hygienic as you walk outside in your shoes.  I said I walk outside in my climbing shoes too. 

I suggested if he's really that precious about hygiene he ought to find another hobby. 

I think the "tops off is worse for hygiene" is a bit of a red herring.  I'd rather be around somebody shirtless and clean than someone in a shirt that stinks of stale sweat! 

Sweaty feet and pungent climbing shoes aren't rare, it's not practical to wash then frequently. Bodies, that's different, no excuse for not taking a shower. 

Note. Despite their fees, climbing walls seem to often have the worst shower and changing facilities of any sport. It's as though because as mountaineers we have to slum it occasionally they think they can get away with the bare minimum. 

Not wearing street shoes on the mats is a rule for some walls, as is no climbing shoes in the loos.

Your comparison of clean shirtless people and people in smelly teeshirts is a strawman. It's marginally better for wall hygiene for people to wear shirts as more of the sweat will end up in the shirts and less dripping onto the mats.

In the end its up to wall management what rules they choose and we can choose to pay or go elsewhere.

Walls need to keep costs low as too many climbers are parsimonious. They are not huge profit making businesses. Climbing is the best value indoor sport I know of.

Anyone say otherwise?  No-one's questioning people's fashion sense.

No. When it starts to make you gag and eyes water, then yes.

We all have different tolerance levels for such things, I guess.  I'd say I come across this sort of thing once every few visits to my local wall when it's busy. It doesn't seem that hard to ask people to have a wash and stick on clean clothing when they go to the wall, but there you go.  One person I questioned tactfully (I was climbing with them) about this, basically said: "what's the point of a wash and clean top if you're going to get sweaty anyway".  I get the impression that a small but significant proportion of people subscribe to this view. 

I do wonder about the personal hygiene of those that seem to be reacting so strongly to the suggestion that people might not go around minging when in close contact with others.  Seems like simple manners to me.

And yes, I do climb outside.  And yes, I know that you can get unpleasant things outside.  And no, I don't find that remotely relevant.

Which wall do you go to where people wear "sweat impregnated clothes" rather than fresh ones each time so I can avoid it?

I've never come across that.  Is there one particular one that's popular with showerless #vanlifers perhaps?

Clearly this isn't a rule at the wall I was in, otherwise I wouldn't have told him that that wasn't a rule! 

No climbing shoes in the loos is of course, and rightly so.  Not sure how that's relevant to the conversation but there we go.

Yeah that's a fair point.  But I'd still rather be around a clean sweaty shirtless person than a person in a stinky unwashed shirt.  Best of all would be a clean person in a clean shirt of course!

There is added value money to be made. Places like glentress have coin operated showers, not the best but they work. They might also attract more customers if they up their game. A monthly wall fee, shower and eat after 3 or 4 times week: folk will be looking for value this winter when it comes to heating hot water at home, cooking etc.  The wall membership might be one of those things that goes. 

From the other thread:

Why did you aim this remark to me?  It's pretty obvious isn't it?  You'd have to be pretty clueless to equate "sterile" with "not poisonous"

So why even mention it?

Because you asked a question about urine being sterile so would somebody want to be urinated on.

A silly question that seems to confuse sterile with benign.

Different value offers for different demographics? Im not sure the better shower market is that significant: the vast majority of climbers clearly get clean at home.

I see walls becoming more of a value offer for some staying warm this winter if they want to climb indoors but can't afford the heating at home. In a more extreme vein Libraries, Community Centres, etc could be a life-saver for some of the poor.

Depot Sheffield has a lovely shower, even though it is a little hidden away. 

Always annoyed me that The Works didn't have them as usually when climbing there I'm going for a drink afterwards and prefer not to be pongy - and bizarrely The Foundry decided to take their showers out when doing the recent refurb.

I run hot and even though I don't climb hard I want a shower after and doing so at the wall makes more sense than coming home sweaty. I also know at least one person with a dirty physical job who showers to freshen up before climbing.

Yes people not laundering their clothes between climbs most certainly is a thing, and I'd agree that clean sweaty topless bodies are far preferable to stale sweaty tees. 

Digression.... sweat is mildly acidic

I disagree if you have a decent shower at the wall many won't need to run a boiler at home, some may even have an old school immersion rather than on demand gas combi boilers. Plus why not, I bet many here are spending £30,40,50... a month at their wall, plus food and any random kit purchases. 

I was trying to imply that if you expect everyone to be wearing £100 fragrances then you might have more luck at a fashion show. Wit isn’t my strong point, I admit.

Fair enough if that’s true. But, to be frank, I just don’t believe you that this is a common experience. I’ve never had this experience, I’ve never witnessed anyone gagging at a climbing wall, and I’ve never heard anyone pass comment on this at a wall.

I agree with you that this would be an issue, I just don’t believe that it is an issue.

“Simple manners” to me would be not leaping to making personal remarks about strangers just because they disagree with you about the magnitude of a problem, but as you say we all have different tolerance levels. 

I see your sweaty back and I raise you climbers' hoof.

If you had asked me before whether I would rather have showers at the wall or a few pounds off my monthly membership, I'd definitely have taken the money. But, since I'm paying for it anyway, maybe I'll start showering at the wall rather than at home. But after climbing, not before. The idea that anyone is going to shower before rather than after climbing seems ludicrous to me.

We can disagree all you like, but walls do talk to their customers and yet the average  shower situation is pretty poor and in some cases they have gone. I agree those using walls for a win-win this winter (climbing etc and saving energy use at home) would obviously appreciate a free or cheap shower at the wall.

If I'd been doing hard outdoor voluntary work, and was filthy as a result, I'd shower before I climbed indoors and regard that as normal.

I have no problem with people working up a sweat at a wall or gym, that's to be expected.

But to arrive at a wall or gym before you have started, already smelling of stale sweat is both anti social, and yes, I'll say it again filthy, and indicative of poor personal hygiene, and poor attention to laundering.  Yes, it's climbing wall which you access from home, not an expedition environment where, as I know from personal experience it is a lot harder to keep yourself and in particular your clothing laundered, and yes, you start to pong. 

You have been very fortunate if in 14 years you have not encountered the repugnant smell of stale sweat in either a gym or wall, but it does happen, and if you are belaying next to someone with bad BO sometimes it can, and does make you gag. 

There is no excuse for poor personal hygiene in relation to gyms and walls, and I wonder why you have taken the OP so personally?

I'd always assumed that was a sensible rule to avoid the mats getting damaged by shoes with sharp edges and so on.

What? Even if they have arrived already stinking to high heaven?

What gives you that impression?

"hardly warrants such unpleasant and judgmental attacks".

That sounds as though you've taken the OP very personally. Apologies if I've misinterpreted your meaning.

Well ok, maybe if they had been away on a trip for a week or two without washing and were feeling self-conscious.

Blimey, the world would be a far sadder place if no one thought about anyone other than themselves. I can think something is unpleasant and judgemental without thinking it is about me - I would hope that doesn’t come as a surprise.

As a total opposite to the point of the thread, there's a gaggle of young lads come into my gym who probably spend about 60% of their time taking furtive selfies of themselves in 'flex' poses, with the remaining 40% of the time spent doing a set of exercises, then going off to a quiet corner, spraying themselves with deodorant, then returning to the next set.

It's as if there's some sort of stigma or fear of a bit of sweat.

I'm very much of the workout, sweat like a ***ard, shower, spray, go home

I'm clearly antisocial but this thread is really tempting me to turn up at the wall all stinky and thereby hopefully have all the judgemental people keep their distance from me!

A full on dirty protest.   You definately wouldn't have to queue for a route.

Has it occured to you that some people have physically active jobs and have to do these whilst wearing bulky PPE? It's quite possible to have a serious BO issue after a days work, even if you leave the house freshly showed in the morning - and these are almost exclusively the kind of jobs where you can't work from home.

Sometimes I fart as well, I'm a very bad person. 

I'm waiting for the day when people start passing up their place in the queue for the red route because they're still waiting for their shirt to come out of the drier, having got a bit sweaty on the overhanging juggy yellow and needing a clothes wash as a result!

Because yes, fresh sweat can be pretty nasty rather quickly

You know we're in the heady days of summer when there's a 'tops off at the wall' thread....... and you know it's silly season when it spawns 2 new threads!

Wait, so if you've got sweaty and smelly for whatever reason through the day, like by cycling to/from work, or maybe by, say, working all day, and you fancy a wall session in the evening, you're going to go home for a shower, freshen up, put on some nice aftershave to..... go to the wall and get sweaty and smelly? 

Nope. You're on your own there. I wouldn't do that. Can't imagine any reasonable person would.

It's the wall, people go to train, climb, socialise classify as you will. Many go straight from work. Insisting all users are showered and deodorised before entry is prissy in the extreme.

This is all heading towards golf/tennis club type rules. Will we be governed by a dress code soon. Climbers already wear ridiculous trousers,why not add a gaudy sweater too.

Surely beanie and no top?

As an aside I do wonder if the shoes clipped to the outside of the bag whilst on the underground are an active attempt to ensure plenty of space and keep the weirdoes away.

Obviously they can shower if they want, but I really don't think anyone should feel social pressure to do so before going somewhere to exercise and immediately get sweaty again.

Society probably in general has an unhealthy obsession with showering and washing clothes. A lot of it just isn't necessary.

Trust me, when hubby has spent all day in summer temps climbing in thick chainsaw trousers a shower most certainly IS necessary.