UKC

If you had to choose for road riding would you rather have carbon wheels and metal frame or the other way around, please share thoughts if you feel like it.

By metal i mean alu alloy, Ti alloy or steel alloy, doesn't really matter although I know each have their own merits.

In reply to The Potato:

Isn't that a bit like asking "Do you prefer pesto on your apple pie or custard on your pasta?"

The main advantage of carbon wheels is sensible weight with deep aero rims or super light weight. Both of those only make sense with carbon frames.

IMHO of course. Others may differ.

In reply to Marek:

I'd say that depends - the part of the question the OP is missing is what brakes do you have. If it's rim brake, then alloy wheels make a lot of sense, if it's disc, then that avoids a lot of the braking issues with carbon rims.

If I had to choose between the OPs options, I'd def go with carbon frame and alloy wheels.

For most people, it will come down to cost and carbon wheels are expensive to replace if you prang them on a pothole.

In reply to LastBoyScout:

... and aesthetics. Some people may well just want carbon wheel for the 'look'. But  deep rims look a bit weird (IMHO again) on a skinny tubed steel frame. Let's face it, most bike purchases are based more on 'want you want/like' rather than what is objectively best.

In reply to The Potato:

I wouldn't have carbon anything as I'm not a professional cyclist and it would be a waste of money.

In reply to LastBoyScout:

good call, yes disc

In reply to The Potato:

Neither, I own a proper (carbon) bike with proper (carbon) wheels for the road.

In reply to ianstevens:

I didn't add that as an option as I was interested in knowing people's thoughts given a specific budget for one or the other and which they would prioritize

In reply to The Potato:

Meaningless without some intended usage definition. Commuter? Hill-climb racer? Flat racer? Audax? Do-it-all bike? Going to the pub bike? The trouble is that I don't see that either of your choices is particularly well optimised for any usage.

In reply to The Potato:

I would imagine you are getting more cost-relative benefits from upgrading to a carbon frame rather than carbon wheels. There is no real point in having carbon wheels unless you are racing, and if you are racing at that level then you are going to have a full carbon bike anyway so it is a bit of a moot point. whereas a carbon frame definitely has some benefits to the casual cyclist (less power lost through flex when you are out of the saddle for example).

In reply to Webster:

Really? So how many Watts do you lose (measured, not guessed) and what proportion of time do you spend powering out of the saddle on your 'casual' rides?

In reply to The Potato:

As Marek says, it very much depends on usage. If it was a triathlon bike I might go deep carbon rims on an alloy frame (along with an alloy set of rims for windy days), but for general riding I'd take the carbon frame.

In reply to Ciro:

Tbh if you are after aero gains you'll get more out of deep wheels on an alloy frame than by swapping frames. However, carbon frames have their own, different benefits - things like stiffness/comfort/weight/ride feel.

Of course if you really want aero gains the best bang-for-buck is to sort your position, get some velotoez, a pointy helmet and a skin suit. Downside being that you look like a true Fred chopping around like that on an alloy roadie.

In reply to ianstevens:

Yeah, exactly - I prefer the ride of a carbon frame so that would be my first choice of upgrade unless I really wanted the aero gains for racing.

I'll see your skin suit and pointy helmet, and raise you a fairing - both for the gains and the look 😁

In reply to The Potato:

I have a selection - 

Commuter and filthy weather bike - aluminium frame, aluminium wheels, disc brakes.  Solid and reliable.

Fancy road bike - carbon frame, carbon wheels.  Rim brakes.  Stops fine in the rain, but I hate to grind the rims, so it doesn't really got out in the rain.

Other fancy road bike - lightweight stainless frame, alloy wheels, rim brakes.  The rims wear, but a new rim is about £180 fitted.

Old road bike - carbon frame, alloy rims, rim brakes.  Winter bike really now. 

For choice in the UK - a frame you like and carbon wheels and disc brakes.  If you're a fair weather cyclist, then a round tube frame, cable gears, rim brakes and a pair of shallow carbon wheels.  I like round tubes.  These square/squashed section tubes make it look like you're riding an over-sized coathanger

In reply to The Potato:

My good bike is getting on a bit now, carbon with mechanical Dura Ace 9000 with rim brakes. When it came to deciding on wheels, I opted for fairly high end alloy over a more mid range carbon. Largely because of braking and rim wear concerns.

The bike is set up for climbing rather than aero, so deep rims are not a major consideration, although the rims are slightly deeper than standard and the wheels are very light. Whole bike is 6.5kg.

The bike I use most days is all alloy with disks.

In reply to The Potato:

If I had to take one, then it would have to be carbon frame over carbon wheels.

In reply to nniff:

Converse opinion: round tubes make it look like you're riding scaffolding.

In reply to Marek:

I have a pair of these on my road bike 

https://blackinc.cc/product/aero-climber-black-inc-five/ 

and these get funny looks from people who like carbon wheels (they are incredible BTW I can't see them when i'm riding )

In reply to Marek: Well the big advantage for me of carbon has been comfort.  I'm quite short ,and alloy bikes are always stiff and variably uncomfortable.  I've also had a number of steel frames and I'd rather have carbon over those as well.

Note 1 - the above is mostly based on hardtail MTB's.

Note 2 - I've always bought 'big branded' rather than Chinese open mould carbon

In reply to The Potato:

Thanks for the replies, I'm riding a decent carbon bike with decent alloy wheels so am happy with that and the comments seem to support that. I was hoping the poll would stimulate some good arguments both ways, with the carbon wheels being lighter or more aero, both having advantages, but at a financial cost.

In reply to wbo2:

I think it probably depends on specifically which bikes you've had. In my case I had a carbon SuperSix for a few years and more recently an alloy CAAD12. I would say there little difference in comfort although the SuperSix was on 25mm GP4ks @ 80-90psi and the CAAD was on 28mm GP5ks @ 70psi. The CAAD however has be more 'fun' in some weird way I can't specify. Either way if I want all-day comfort I'd use my alloy Kinesis Tripster with 38mm GKs @ 40psi. Bottom line is that I think the frame and its material is quite a small contributor to the overall comfort equation. Geometry and tyres (particularly pressure) are the biggies.

In reply to The Potato:

You're probably not alone in that debate - having a carbon frame does make carbon wheels tempting. Full disclosure: Having just lost my lovely CAAD12 under a car, I'm mulling over all sort of options and yes, carbon wheels are singing their siren songs again. I will resist.

In reply to The New NickB:

I’ve had my bike since 2017, do 8-10,000 miles a year mainly on that bike on the same carbon wheels and the brake track is barely marked. 

In reply to The Potato:

I have a carbon disc brake bike.

Hunt 4 season aluminium wheels for winter and lovely ZIPP 404's (carbon) for nice weather.

Both have their merits. The Hunts did get damaged during an audax but they have a good replacement policy and I got 50% off a replacement rim.

I would go for a carbon bike first for weight saving ( I live in a hilly area) then upgrade the wheels

In reply to The Potato:

Carbon wheels are not the the answer to everything.  I have a lovely pair of shallow section carbon wheels - stupid expensive, way more than I would want to pay, but they came with the bike, which was in a sale (rim brake, cable gears, 11 speed Campag, round carbon tubes - not in vogue, but lovely).  I have a 73kg rock climber's build.

So far I have broken three spokes on the back and one on the front.  Each breakage involves the walk/telephone call of shame because the wheel turns into a Pringle.  Apparently, I need to check the tension, but seeing as the nipples are internal that is a) four fifths of f all use to me and b) they shouldn't slacken off in the first place if they're locktited.  Fingers crossed, they've settled down and one hasn't broken for a while.

The other good pair has Chris King hubs and a few more spokes.  They keep rolling along.  Every now and then the hubs get a service and a new alloy rim.  That makes a Chris King based wheelset cost effective.  You effectively get a top-flight new wheel for £180 when the old rim wears out. 

Discs - got a bike with those and prefer the rims brakes frankly, but I don't like the grim grey mess you get with alloy rim brakes in the wet, (especially in London), so the all-weather commuter has discs.  I can easily see how much brake pad I have left on a rim brake, which isn't the case with discs

In reply to Marek: I suspect my height (170cms)  is a largish factor.. even with the constraint of wheel size.  If I build an Al frame and particularly  rear triangle for that height it's hard to engineer in a lot of the flex required for comfort into an Al tube, but you can into a shaped carbon tube,  If you do build the flex into Al then durability will suffer.  The counter is for taller riders to sometimes complain frames feel flexible - I've only ever felt that on older steel frames

That might all be prejudice tho', but my back says carbon feels better

In reply to wbo2:

I'm bit taller than you, but the CAAD is a very traditional frame (no dropped/slopping anything) so I still had little exposed seatpost.

At the end of the day, if you're not racing, how you feel when riding the bike is all that counts!

In reply to The Potato:

Each frame material has its pros and cons, depending on your priorities as a rider, including weight, budget, longevity and the performance characteristics you want from the frame. But it has to be noted, you'll probably ride at a slightly slower average speed when riding a steel frame. For some people, riding faster on a carbon bike is one of its advantages. By the way, here is an interesting article about the speed https://www.bikertricks.com/average-cycling-speed/
From the point of view of the budget, I'd go with a carbon frame and metal wheels. Wheels tend to take more of a beating than frames, so with that in mind I'd rather occasionally have to replace a cheaper metal wheel than an expensive carbon one.
But if we are talking about the ride quality, I vote for carbon wheels. I tried them and they are wow! Not just for killing out trail buzz. They are direct in that when you pedal, it goes straight to the ground better and more efficiently.

In reply to Nimax:

That website looks like a 'rab mountain equipment vango black diamond very good price genuine rock climbing equipment carabiner' knock off site.

For your amusement I offer you front, middle and rear gears - who knew!

"Front gears are best used on flat terrain or when riding slowly. They allow you to ride in a straight line without having to shift your whole body each time you change gear. 

Rear Gears are best used on hills or when you want to go faster. They allow your bike to go up hills easily and keep you moving along at a more speed, even when you’re going uphill.

Mid-Gear is perfect for all sorts of cycling situations. They let you cover a lot of ground quickly while still being able to handle some hills, making them great for fast-paced cyclists or mountain bikers."

By way of translation (and it still makes no sense) they mean shifters, rear mech/cassette and chainring/front mech.

Entertaining in a car crash sort of way, but it is ten minutes of your life you'll never get back.  Personally, I kept scrolling out of disbelief...

In reply to The Potato:

As others have said, the poll's an overly simplified choice. For instance, I've got a lovely, Italian (in name at least), carbon aero frame, disc brakes and Di2, that came with, frankly, crap alloy wheels. Once they were swapped out for 50 section carbon wheels, it's on another level in terms of speed and feel.

My other main frame is a carbon gravel frame, analogue shifting, takes mudguards and a rack if necessary. With appropriate tyres, it's great for everything from mellow singletrack through commuting to long-distance endurance e.g. did London-Edinburgh-London on it last year.

However, I once put the 50 section carbon wheels on the gravel bike for what I hoped would be a quick endurance combo and it was indescribably grim. So stiff, every little bump and road imperfection transmitted into body contact points despite playing around with tyre pressures etc

So really you need a wheel/tyre combo that complements the frame construction/layup, regardless of the materials involved

In reply to The Potato:

Cannondale CAAD13 Ultegra. All the bike you will ever want. Aluminum frame but light as carbon with upgraded alloy wheels.

In reply to The Potato:

Pointless... I'll have carbon for both.  Screw compromise!

In reply to crayefish:

Fine but not everyone has enough funds for both, so in this hypothetical situation which would you choose.

It's a thought exercise as much as anything rather than just throwing money at things to make them better

In reply to The Potato:

I didnt want to spend silly money so I bought the carbon bike originally and built the carbon wheels with good Chinese rims. 

Carbon rims only make decent sense if one goes aero.  So I went 65mm for the road wheels on my gravel bike 🤣