UKC

Could bare the thought of creating a mum's net profile but can any one on here recommend eco friendly nappies. Trying not to throw million of tons of plastic away.I

Got ever thing else second hand but can't get my head around  bio degradable nappies.

Promise I'm not an AI bot. Please don't recommend a Skoda octavia.

LR

Cloth nappies. See if you have a local nappy library.

No point in buying expensive biodegradable ones if your local waste goes to incineration.

That's what I thought but surely burnt bamboo better then burnt plastic?

Cloth ones - much like towelling material.  Obviously they are meant to be washable.  Its what everyone used when folk were born in the 1950s, 60s and probably into the 1970s.

Currently using close pop-in nappies. Do check eBay as they are resold on there. Also get the night time soakers, these will hopefully give you and your little one some more sleep.

We wash our dirty bunch every 2 days, a pre rinsen and then at 60.

You can also get cloth wipes. We have cheeky wipes and these are washed with the nappies.

For hospital and when our little one is new we used disposable ones as the standard reusable nappies are to big. It also means less to think about in those first few weeks.

​​​​​​Happy to answer any more questions 

and the 80’  

Hitching to Keswick late one Friday  I was pick up at the bottom of Dunmail Raise, a Bedford  rascal van  sign written advertising a Nappy laundry service   I suppose it was doomed  by the disposable   mores the pity :

Sitting on the step of Moot hall eating chips , a  voice asked “ are you the bloke I pick up last night?  I was

Thanks for the lift and trying to save all that land fill ,

Another vote for cloth/reusable nappies. We picked up a big box of them second hand on fb marketplace.

Good point by tew about being too big for newborns, we only started using them after a month or two.

There was a good episode of the sliced bread podcast on radio 4 on the pros and cons of reusable vs biodegradable vs disposable nappies a little while ago. I can't remember the details, but reusable ones definitely came out tops both financially and environmentally despite the cost and energy use of washing them.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001md4l

Yes would also add a sealable bucket/bin to lob used ones in. And a poo knife. We also used a waterproof wrap when needed which stopped any leaks.

Got a lot of ours very cheap needing new elastic, which wasn't hard to sort. 

Thanks for the advice everyone, we'll go for cloth ones, just can't really justify the plastic. I don't think I've any idea what is about to hit me.

Is throwing away plastic better than washing (and tumble drying) nappies?

I don’t know the answer but, I do know it’s a difficult question. 
 

There was an episode of “sliced bread” podcast on this topic recently, it could concluded - it’s complicated.

I'd beg to differ. Cellulose-based fillers will incinerate. I'm not 100% sure what the absorbant materials are in conventioal nappies but would guess something like silica gel, in which case it won't burn and you just end up with a lot of nasties in the residula material post-incineration.

btw, haven't forgotten about swim - just need to find more time from somewhere....

This is also really good at helping choose which brand and setup to go for 

https://www.thenappylady.co.uk/nappy-advice-questionnaire.html

When ours were small we got pointed to research that said disposables were lower impact. When my better half looked into the details it turned out that they were ironing each nappy every wash. (iirc they also washed at 100 or something). it's almost as if there were some vested interests trying to persuade us not to use re-useables......

Don't tumble dry them then. We only did as a last resort - maybe 6 times in 4 years. Buy enough to compensate for the drying time.

Cloth nappies.  Especially if you have more than one baby.

My three were all in cloth nappies (now aged 20, 18 and 15, so the modern type of cloth nappy, not old - fashioned terry square (not that there is anything wrong with them - they are cheaper and dry quicker than modern shaped ones).

I used to dry pail ours (chuck in lidded bucket) then wash at 60 every two days.  Dry on line or airing cupboard.  

From memory the (big) assumption on that episode was that you were buying both the reusable and the disposable alternatives new. That’s obviously going to be true for the latter, but not necessarily the former. We’re using second hand reusable nappies on the whole, supplemented with the odd disposable when convenience dictates - it seems pretty clear that in eco terms that has to be a winner.

Blimey, what parent of a baby has the time let alone inclination to iron nappies!!

One of the best investments we made was buying a new super efficient washing machine shortly before our little girl was born as our old one was on its last legs.

Yeah, cloth nappies do the job really well. We still use the odd disposable when cloth ones would not be practical (like if we won't have access to a washing machine for a few days). The difference in waste is remarkable - using disposables for our daughter about doubles our overall household waste. 

Someone mentioned cloth wipes above - DEFINITELY do this. Cloth wipes and one of those thermos coffee dispensers full of hot water at the changing table is great. I hate it when we have to use disposable wet wipes when we're out and about - they don't work nearly as well. We just bought cloth wipes but I know people who have made their own by cutting up old t-shirts in 15cm x 15cm squares and hemming the edges. 

Cloth Nappies and wipes all the way for us - but different things work for different people. You may find them great initially then they just don't really work. There is a bit of a risk. Local nappy banks would be good to look at, and as mentioned above thenappylady was where my otehr half got a lot of info

We have 2 types: Bambino Mio which are velcro fixed, work from 4kg through to potty training nominally (though big when they're just over 4kg!) and you can add extra absorbency pads when they get a bit older. Also Motherease which have poppers. We have some 4kg+ ones, but also got a set of newborn ones which he wasn't in for very long as he's now 6 weeks and 6kg. We got some new, but most of the stock came from Vinted.

As mentioned, cloth wipes are so good I'm considering using them on myself! Have a tub of water next to the changing mat to dunk them in at 2am.

We destuff the pads then wash at 40 with some BambinoMio natural cleaner as well as our usual detergent strips. We are doing a load a day mind. Drying in the summer is grand, but we have been using a dehumidifier when it's wet, and a tumbledryer once or twice when we need to. We have solar so this helps.

However, when we go away in the van I think we'll be using some disposables as well.

I have a few keys points to make on this:

1. Definitely go for washable nappies. They are not difficult, much more cost effective & eco. You can use them for multiple children, even different ages, as they are adjustable sizes. You can buy them from your local NCT sale or on-line. Get a mixture of different varieties as you need some for night time, some quick drying ones, some highly absorbent. I had about 40 nappies for 2 children mainly bought second hand.

2. It's not the washing, it's the drying. Washing is easy - just shove in your wash every couple of days. Use fleece liners as it stops them getting a sore bum. We used a lidded bucket but you can use a dry bag. For drying you'll need to think about a clothes horse or drying frame somewhere, in use pretty much all the time (note some varieties you cannot tumble dry anyway). You will get sick of the drying.

3. As someone else mentioned, the main saving will be in reusable wipes. These are much better for skin, much more convenient, you can use them dry or wet, hot or cold. Again if you can find a nearly new set second hand, buy them without question. We used ours for years & it was the best thing we did.

Any questions please ask, I am a very enthusiastic supporter of washable nappies.

We use cloth nappies. Excellent... just excellent and so much nicer for the child. My wife did an incredible amount of research. If you want to email me, I'm sure she be happy to give you pointers, tips, pros and cons of different fabrics / brands. 

Are you certain this is the most environmentally friendly way to do things?

I haven't researched this properly, but a quick google suggests that CO2 from one child in nappies is 550kg. Unsure how many nappies that is a day, or for how long. I think this is based on 5 per day for three years.

https://www.capitalhire.com.au/disposable-nappies-and-the-environment/#:~:t....

So if the alternative is a 60 degree wash every two days, then that's 3.3kg x 180days x 3years = 1800kg.

https://www.thecapture.club/post/whats-the-carbon-footprint-of-my-laundry

And then there's the water use on top of that.

Plastic in the oceans is terrible, but plastic in a modern landfill that are sealed from the ground water pose no environmental damage. Let's face it, we get oil from the world's natural landfills anyway that have been there for millions of years. Storing harmful waste if sealed isn't a bad thing.

Maybe the washable nappies can be justified if you mix other clothes in with the wash, but I can't see a compelling argument for it from a very quick bit of googling.

"I think this is based on 5 per day for three years."

Lol show me the baby that only needs 5 nappies a day.

However, disposables contain absorbancey things that turn solid so that baby doesn't feel as wet, whereas reusables don't have this. As such you'll probably be changing reuseables a bit more often than disposables due to this increased wetness.

As soon as they are eating solids. A two/three year old is easily 5 per day. Possibly less. So on average, 5 per day is about right since the 10 per day period doesn't last all that long in the grand scheme of things. Plus those size 1 nappies are tiny anyway. 

I'm not sure a quick googling really does justice to complex subjects such as these!

Here's the Defra commissioned report mentioned in the Sliced Bread podcast for anyone that's interested - https://randd.defra.gov.uk/ProjectDetails?ProjectId=20622

Firstly you don't need a pre-rinse, secondly you are forgetting that you can use these nappies for multiple children...

I'm not sure how using re-usable nappies for multiple children really helps, since the main damage is caused by all the washing.

Unless you mean multiple children at the same time.  Unless you have twins, that's pretty unusual, not to mention painful.

I think they mean that after the initial setup cost/impact (buying/manufacturing the things) for the first child, there is zero impact/cost for any subsequent kids.

(Obviously except for the laundering) 

I think the suggestion to 'get a poo knife' gives you some idea. Bon chance!

We used cloth with a flushable paper liner, no poo knife was needed.

We used cloth nappies for #1 (economy measure at the time), with a disposable liner.  You'll soon work out why the liner is a good idea.

The other upside, which I don't think anyone has mentioned yet, is that they'll be dry faster because they're not nice to wear when they're wet.  Disposable nappies are so effective they provide little incentive to be dry.

I don have an abiding memory of taking him for a long walk in the woods in a backback carrier, and wee running off the end of one foot....Not great for either of us!

Yet another vote for reusable nappies and wipes.

Cheeky wipes for the reusable wipes https://www.cheekywipes.com/

Then we have a mixture of all sorts of different day and night nappies for her - loads of brands as listed here but off the top of my head I know we have Tots Bots and Bear Bott, and I think Bambino Mio too.  Some brands are a bit more fiddly than others, but you soon get used to them.

For when she's in nursery we always put a disposable liner in there (makes it easier to get the poo out) but don't bother when she's just with us (as hinted above, this can be a messy job).  Worth being aware that the disposable cotton liners are disposable, not flushable!

As other have said, when she was a newborn she was in disposables as the reusables don't go to tiny sizes, and of course she's had to use them when we don't have access to washing and drying facilities. 

Can't imagine the size of the pile of used nappy waste we've saved on by going reusable - she's 2 so something like 5 x 365 x 2 so maybe 3650 nappies?  It's a big pile anyway...

Well I’m  14 months in and f-that. In my defence we do grow all our own food apart from mushrooms but even those trays get used repeatedly. I hate single use plastics but nappies and bin bags have to stay for me. Sorry! 

I drive past this place fairly regularly.

https://beamingbaby.co.uk/

Haven't used them, so can't vouch for quality etc. but they are doing free samples, so maybe worth a look.

The evidence that reusable nappies are more environmentally friendly is evidently shakey based on the DEFRA report linked above.

According to that report reusable nappies failed more key measures than disposable.

Bringing up a baby has been heavy going for us so I’m OK with the decision. You gotta win your battles I guess and we are hopefully net positive on the eco stakes. But surely a washable nappy is ok? As above tho the pile is gonna be huge in hindsight when we are done. 3200 nappies by 2 years old ☹️.  Now feeling bad with our Aldi plastic nappy addiction. 

This may be true, but you’re missing a key point here. The study looks at 1 child using disposable nappies for 2.5 years vs same for reusable - a nice fair and even comparison.

However what this report doesn’t take into account is that the reusable nappies are often kept and used again for another child (our second is due in December, so we won’t need to get any more) then possibly a third or fourth if they are passed on to other families as many of ours were to us.

Once you take that into account a reusable system is clearly the best environmental option. 

I don't think this changes the outcome very much. Take CO2 in that report. 85% of it was from use (i.e. washing them).

So there's minimal gain by re-using them for subsequent children.

Second child on reusable nappies and wipes makes me feel sad every Thursday when i see the yellow bags outside houses full of nappies.

we bought some newborn reusable ones off ebay for first month that have now been passed on to a friend with twins.

Really? I may be getting this wrong but from what I gather from the summary report the reusable nappy system already releases less CO2 than the disposable, and the main cause of difference is manufacturing and end of life?  
 

You may be correct in that the bulk of the CO2 released by reusables is via washing, but it still releases less CO2 overall than disposables.

One thing I will highlight on using reusables - if the sprog gets a sore bum, using sudocreme will impact upon the absorbency of the nappy, which could make things worse. We ended up using Lansinoh nipple cream which is a bit pricey but a little goes a long way, any sore bits healed quickly so we didn't have to use that much of it.

Also, the report seems to account for tumble drying rather than line drying. If you don't tumble dry that number would be significantly lower I expect

I've used both, and I don't believe this. Washables are better at preventing leakage and more comfortable for the child if you use a fleece liner. They last just as long.

Sure, CO2 is used in washing. But if you are careful about that, you can reduce your washing - you could wash 40 degrees once every few days.

CO2 is also used in shipping disposables to supermarkets and in bringing them to your house, again not needed for washables.

It does?  Wow! Must admit I just glanced over it and looked at the summary figures...  Strange decision seeing as the majority of reusable nappy users only line dry their nappies (have looked at the report in more depth now). 

Yes absolutely families who line dry their nappies (like us, we don't have a tumble drier) will have a significantly lower CO2 figure.

They've also it seems modelled it on using worst case scenario detergent, again odd, as surely reusable nappy users are more likely to favour more eco friendly products.

Even with these methodology limitations in mind (and this is a very well put together study) it's pretty clear use of reusable nappies represents a significant benefit to the environment over disposables. 

So having looked at the report in detail, I see where you've gone wrong on this...

You are correct in that reusable nappies fails on more key measurables (11 vs 7) but the measurables which it fails on are less critical to the environment than the ones which the disposables fails on.   

For example, the no. 1 threat to the globe right now, Carbon release, is 25% worse for disposables than it is for reusables even if reusables are 100% tumble dried (which the majority aren't ever) but you've ignored that and just totted up the number of variables and based your opinion on that.

I know you said this was just quick google, but come on...

25% difference in CO2 isn't a massive magnitude of difference between reusable and non-reusable. The impact is similar.

The numbers for CO2 for reusable nappies however will vary massively depending on how you wash, dry and temperatures you use etc.

The DEFRA report assumed 25% of nappies are dried by heating. Since they dry slowly, I'd be interested to know who people dry them in the winter. Even if you dry indoors on a radiator, it add humidity to your house which means your heating system tends to work a bit harder to reach a comfortable temperature which I doubt the DEFRA report factors in.

They also assume that they simply get mixed in with washes you would do anyway. Not everyone does this I can assure you.

So you can't conclude that reusable nappies release less CO2 for a particular family without know the specifics on how they use them. They could very easily be a lot more damaging than disposables. Or less.

Tew said:

I assumed this to be a specific wash for them. I doubt they would use a washing machine every 2 days otherwise. In which case, it would be way higher than the DEFRA figures. Tew didn't say how they dried them.

The only conclusion I came to was:

I would stand by that comment. How is my conclusion poor.

On the CO2 front, there's not much in it. "5% isn't exactly night and day.

I haven't gone wrong. If you include all their key indicators then reusable nappies comes off worse. That's what the report says.

Sure you can try weighting all the key indicators, but even if you massively skew it to give more weight to CO2, the difference between the two is still small and very variable.

So I stand by my original comment that there is no compelling argument from a environmental perspective to use reusable nappies.

Terry towelling nappies.

That what me and my siblings used in the 80s.

In reply to montyjohn:

A 25% reduction in CO2 isn't significant?  Sorry, but that's not right.  If global CO2 emissions could be reduced by 25% that would have a very significant impact.  

Your very first post on the subject started with a conclusion, and completely misrepresented the reports findings

"The evidence that reusable nappies are more environmentally friendly is evidently shakey based on the DEFRA report linked above."

Which it absolutely does not say. 

What it does say is this:

"Whilst the disposable nappies have a higher Global warming potential (CO2eq), reusable nappies have a higher impact in other environmental categories. These are mainly due to the electricity used in prewashing, washing and tumble drying the reusable nappies, water used by the washing machine and toilet flushing and the treatment of the wastewater and detergent."

Which given the variables in methodology and that the fact that they took some worst case scenarios to model the tests, as discussed upthread, is a slightly unreliable measure.

You're welcome to stand by your argument, but this is a detailed report looking at a number of completely differently criteria with different implications for the environment, and you've approached it like a game of top trumps and just totted up the number of wins and, sadly, that's not how science works.

Ditto my children! My wife, who is a trained Norland Nanny won a nappy folding competition at a large store somewhere!

What are you on about? I didn't know of the report existence when I wrote my first post so how could I misrepresent its findings?

I did a back of the fag packet calc based on number of washes and amount of nappies used stating where I got the figures from.

First post on the subject of the DEFRA report, not first post on the thread.

As well as the DEFRA study mentioned another relevant: study studies: https://www.ecorisparmiare.it/blog/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/44777470.pdf

Their also some other similar ones out there, if you are interested search for LCA disposal nappies, or words to that effect in Google scholar. (I have some exposure to LCA work as part of my job so always find these sorts of discussions interesting). basic conclusions seem to be it depends a lot on how you wash, dry and dispose of re usable ones but even worst case scenarios they are better in terms of CO2 and also better for many other metrics.

Yeah, very underwhelmed by the effectiveness of Sudocrem on nappy rash, doesn't really seem to help much at all on ours.  Metanium seems to sort it right out, good stuff that!

‘’Sure you can try weighting all the key indicators, but even if you massively skew it to give more weight to CO2, the difference between the two is still small and very variable.’’

can the same be said about my knickers? 

What did I say that was incorrect or misleading?

It's exactly correct.

https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/off_belay/eco_friendly_nappies-762093?v=1...