UKC

Alright all, 

In a previous thread about potential budgets for a long Europe trip, mention was made about visas for Europe over and above the 3 in 6 month limit foolishness we're now left with. 

I've been trying to find out more about the potential for this but I seen to be hitting a wall. Despite (I think) solid Googlefu, the only long stay visa options I've come across seemingly involves locking into one country as a permanent country of residence for the period. While all well and good and keeps you on the continent it does rather limit traveling for obvious reasons. Am I missing something?

Cheers

In reply to NaCl: No, as far as I know long term visas are for a country.

Get a very long term visa, then after a while get citizenship of a EU or EEA country.

In reply to NaCl:

If you get a visa to long stay in France as an example, what is going to stop you travelling to any other Schengen country? There should be no border checks.

In reply to NaCl:

You're not missing anything - its a terrible situation but its the same as any other non-EU third-country - as a country we voluntarily abolished freedom of movement in the EU.

Somebody mentioned getting a long stay visa for France then taking advantage of Schengen. This is perfectly possible.

'It also allows you to move around (without any other visa) in the whole area Schengen, provided that it does not exceed 90 days during its period of validity.''

https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F16162?lang=en

Just the small matter of getting the visa in the first place. I don't think any of the conditions are compatible with what you want to do. So basically you're not going to be able to do it without cheating the system.

In reply to all:

Hmm, was hoping my Google fu had deserted me and that some other avenue existed regardless of having to jump through hoops and pay for visas. I can't remember the wording but with a long term visa for any one country it didn't sound much better for our hopeful plans. Something along the lines of being the same 3 in 6 but being able to stay in France/wherever rather than coming back to the UK. 

We have the flexibility that we can work round it, at least theoretically, but it would be so much better if Boris and his bunch of bast*rds hasn't pooched it for everyone. 

F*#k Brexit.

In reply to NaCl:

If you have the resources, you can get a golden visa by purchasing property or investing a minimum sum in various countries. This will give you residency which includes Schengen access. Malta is currently the cheapest at 150k EU, Greece, ex Athens 250k EU.

In reply to NaCl:

Hmm, it i does seem a bit of a nightmare. A slighty different, but related question is:  as a European citizen (German), does the 90 day rule apply as well? Just wondering as I want to go and help my mum look after my dad who had a stroke, but I have also been on a few holidays already.  Will I not be allowed back in the country if I overstay these days? What would happen to my rights in this country? I haven't lived in Germany since 1995, so I have no health insurance, etc there. Next year I am going to try and get British citizenship, but until then...

In reply to Heike:

Has  your passport been date stamped when you've entered & left the EU ? If not I guess you'll be OK. 

In reply to Doug:

Thanks Doug, no, never, they always stamp my husband and son's passports these days, but not mine as it is German...

In reply to Doug:

Stamping passports? They are scanned. Anyway Hieke always has the right to enter Germany, she has citizenship.

In reply to jimtitt:

 I have permanent resident status in France (with a carte de séjour' as proof) but am sure that until I showed my card the Police aux Frontières wanted to stamp my passport last summer (2022) both leaving & entering France via the Eurostar - has the system changed ?

In reply to Heike:

If you have a German passport then you are free to be in Germany/Schengen as long as you like. Things to check out would be, as you mention, health insurance, and if taking a British car then car insurance, tax, inspection, license etc. as well as what might happen to your right to be in the UK afterwards. 

In reply to Ennerdaleblonde:

Thanks for the thought but realistically, unless you're one of Boris's mates/father or similar, investing 150k to be able to travel around and climb for a year is not a go-er and won't be for 99.5% of people.

We have the money to be able to eat out, shop, travel, spend on campsites or hotels (periodically at least). We can comfortably support ourselves and local economies but chucking a house worth of money at it on top is talking daft.

In reply to NaCl:

At a practical level, it's not really possible.  We've had a long term plan to buy a house in Italy, which we're still doing, but without nearly the same freedom as we had.  There are other niceties - for example, if you enter Italy by road, you are supposed to stop and register your presence, or at a local police station within 8 days of arrival, so that they know you're in Italy - you passport entry at Calais for example registers you for Schengen and France, and a flight registers you in the country of arrival.  Road borders don't.  I don't think people bother to register, but the rules are there.  Golden visa for Italy is EUR500,000 i think.  Residency takes ages to acquire.  

One plan is to spend time in Schengen and then make your way to Brindisi and then get a ferry to Albania for a while.  the trick is time management - to leave before your 90 is up so that you don't have to wait 90 before you come back the other way

You couldn't have changed the constitution of a golf club with that vote,but you could chuck 200 years of war and diplomacy away.  I had a brief flurry of hope that Cameron would be charged with reversing it - but apparently it will take 30 years to swallow our pride.  We'll have choked the economy to death well before then though.

In reply to Heike:

Does your son not have German citizenship as well Heike? I have three dual national kids, including the one born in the UK - so it's only me who has to wait in a queue going into the Schengen area. We found out for the older ones they don't even need to do military service because they've been out of Finland for over 7 years, so there really don't seem to be any downsides to having two passports.

If you're going back to Germany to help your family, I can't imagine there would be any restrictions on you at all as a citizen.

In reply to NaCl:

We Know some British Van life people who pop across to Morocco for 90 days after their 90 days in Europe is up.

In reply to TobyA:

Yes, my son has dual citizenship. I think he would have the right to go in and out without any trouble. It is just that I was told that me, as a German going from the UK, I only had so many days to re-enter the country before I would lose my status. I have indefinite right to remain, but am not a British citizen. It is difficult to know. My son is fine, he is British and German and has both passports. It's just me who is on the dodgy end

In reply to Matt Podd:

ahh, we were wondering about that ourselves. So Morocco is not in these 90 days..It is just Europe?

Cheers Heike

In reply to nniff and Matt Podd:

Yeah that is was/is the plan in the event of no way of getting a long stay visa. Head to Morocco at one side of Europe and then Albania/Romania/Turkey on the other side. It's not insurmountable but the distance between Spain and the eastern Schengen border is considerable. None of these countries are any kind of a hardship and are places we were hoping to get to anyways. The problem is the timing mainly. We're probably looking at leaving October-ish which means heading south (12 weeks - leave Schengen in December), cross to Morocco before coming back (12 weeks - re-enter March). That leaves 12 weeks to get to the east and gets us there in the height of summer (May ish). We were hoping to find an avenue to allow more time to see more of Europe before heading further east and ultimately south as the weather gets worse, before coming back through again on the way home.

It's all rather first world problems I realise. Just hoping really.

Thanks for the help all.

In reply to Heike:

Romania and Bulgaria are non Shengen too.

In reply to Doug:

I was referring to the authorities stamping Hieke's German passport on entry to the EU.

In reply to Heike:

So you're worried about coming back into the UK after spending a longer period of time in Germany? I asked my partner if she knew how long you could leave the UK without losing settled status, she unhelpfully said "can't remember but I'm sure it's ages" so I looked it up. From gov.uk:

If you want to spend time outside the UK

If you have settled status, you can spend up to 5 years in a row outside the UK, the Channel Islands or the Isle of Man without losing your status.

My partner assures me that you just need to pop back to the UK for "a bit" to reset and get another 5 years out of the country.

In reply to NaCl:

What's Googlefu?

In reply to NaCl:

For the last two years we have had a French 180 day visa - starting in September which allows us to skip the UK winter. You don't have to stay in France as it is a 'multiple entry visa'. When the visa expires in March we have 90 days Schengen time, and when that runs out we have headed to Cyprus/Turkey, though by then it is usually getting a bit too hot for us.

It is a rigmarole but works for us [ http://chriscraggs.blogspot.com/2023/07/applying-for-six-month-french-visa....

Chris

In reply to Chris Craggs:

This sounds just the ticket - thank you. If it's ok I'll pm you later? 

In reply to jimtitt:

As a regular traveller to and from Germany on a British passport, I can tell you they stamp them as well as scan them nowadays - both in France and Germany, and in each direction.

In reply to TobyA:

Thank you, need to investigate this further. Hope it is true!! Don't want to be stopped at the borders. Had some nasty border experiences already travelling alone with my son. (we don't have the same surnames which seems to rub them up the wrong way).

In reply to Heike:

Given how common this is I really wonder why under 18s don't now a box on their passports naming their legal guardian(s). This would also protect children from being taken abroad by a biological parent who no longer has guardianship.

In reply to Jenny C:

Good question, it used to be the case many years ago, but not sure how much it would help. Last time I traveled alone with my son I had his birth certificate, my marriage certificate and a statement from my husband that I was allowed to travel with him on my own, still got questioned....

In reply to Heike:

I have a female friend in the same position as yourself. Yet the father (divorced and mum has full custody) can take the kid abroad with no questions asked.

It's not just about making travel easier for you, but also having a system that actually protects kids who are at genuine risk from actual family members. The current system disproportionately demonises mother's whilst leaving a huge gap in protection for the kids.

(Why the F* is it ok for my husband and I to take our niece abroad unquestioned, yet her mother needs to provide proof of their relationship?)

In reply to NaCl:

For sure - not sure what more I can add from what is already in the Blog though,

Chris

In reply to Ennerdaleblonde:

Just remember that residency in one EU country is ONLY for that country and doesn't qualify you to spend more than 90/180 in other EU countries.
The 90 day rules still applies in all other Schengen country. 

In reply to mike reed:

Thanks for that, my brief research said different but you will know more than me about it and my info came from an agent's website that stood to make from arranging it.

I know which one I trust.

In reply to mike reed:

Although I'm not sure how they would check or prove that you have overstayed, seeing as how there are no passport checks at the border between Schengen countries.  Obviously good to know for sure what the rules are though...

In reply to Toerag:

They stamp YOUR passport, Heike is German so they won't stamp hers since she can enter with her i.d card, I have Germany residency and show them my card, my UK passport is of no interest.

In reply to Jenny C:

Data sharing.pretty simple. 

In reply to neilh:

What data though? I'm in this exact situation of being resident in a Schengen country but with the 90/180 day limit outside. Most trips I go on don't ever involve showing a passport to anyone and essentially never to someone in authority who might join the dots. Mostly drive across borders, but even flights and boats only require photo ID. Some hotels and areas take passport numbers, but most airbnbs don't, and even those that do I'm pretty sure don't do anything proactive with the data, its just stored in case someone comes asking and why would they. I think you would have to be doing something very egregious to ever be actually caught.

Not that I'm likely to test it as sadly I still have a job :-p

In reply to jimtitt:

Out of interest do you have some form of residency (like EU residency) that gives you full schengen freedom of movement? I'm a resident of a schengen country but they always seem keen to stamp my passport even in my home country. Maybe it just varies by place...it seems pretty pointless.

In reply to MB42:

At some stage you are going to leave  the EU  and you point of entry and exit is recorded. 

 Not difficult to figure out. 
 

The EU, U.K.and other western style countries such as Canada , Aus etc all share this type of info. 

In reply to MB42:

I've got permanent residency (well, 10 year, auto renewable without conditions) in France and until recently they would stamp my passport on trips to/from the UK even though they didn't need to. One border official got very arsey when I pointed this out but they all seem to have got the memo now. Pretty sure I'm able to spend unlimited amounts of time in other Schengen states with this. 

Even when they stamped the passport, it was irrelevant because your permanent residency card/status would trump any barely legible ink stains on your passport so don't worry about it. 

In reply to NaCl:

Note that i looked into this 2 years ago go things could have changed.

Search for “180 days in France” on google. There is a facebook page with lots of resources about applying for a long-stay visa without having to work.

It has worked for people booking campsites in a van before, but if you know someone in france who you say you are staying with it would be easier. Though they would have to supply house deeds/rental agreements and get some forms signed at the local council.

We went through the process but as I was travelling with my Wife (who is Dutch) it turned out part way through that I wasn’t eligible. Though i would have been if I hadn’t said I was travelling with her.

A few people I know who got it said it was fairly easy (if you had helpful french friends). Though things may have changed in the last 2 years…

In reply to Ennerdaleblonde:

That is wrong I think.. You can have as many properties as you like scattered around the Schengen area, but the 3 in 6 rules prevail and if you're caught crossing borders you're in trouble 

In reply to NaCl:

Have you thought about spending 3 months in Schengen then 3 of your months in the Balkans?

There's lots of climbing and if you go in the spring or autumn months, the conditions are good. And the living is super-cheap. Turkey is another option to spend some time during your non-schengen 3 months.

In reply to MB42:

I have German residency, if you lived here for a long time (it might be 5 years but I can't remember) you got it automatically after Brexit, it was a special deal just for the half a million or so UK citizens that have been here for ages, in my case over 30 years.

In reply to jimtitt:

Was similar in France & I suspect all EU countries, not sure of how long you had to have been resident (5 years sounds likely) but my 20 years was enough.

In reply to NaCl:

Been on the road since the start of 2022, I usually stay in Schengen for 3 months at a time and then hop out until my timer resets. Spent that time between Croatia, Albania, Turkiye, Tunisia, and currently Morocco.

I've explored all kinds of options for getting some kind of long term visa or residency that would allow me to travel freely in Schengen, but no dice. The emerging Digital Nomad visas seem like a much better option than the Golden Visas, but they're still not great unless you actually plan to base somewhere for a few years.

Yes, it's a pain, but to be lucky enough to be travelling for long enough that you actually have this problem is to be very lucky indeed!

In reply to Doug:

It was 5 - I remember pulling together 5 years of tax returns, pay slips, mortgage statements etc and still wake up in a cold sweat at the thought. I'd only been here 7 years at the time so was quite relieved. 

In reply to NaCl: I have Norwegian permanent residency - it required 5 years of tax slips, employment, residence history and so on.  I have permanent residence of here, but the 3 in 6 rule still counts, and I get my passport stamped in and out.  

I would assume flight information is stored even tho' I'm not passport checked going to Schengen countries

In reply to MB42:

I have a UK passport and a German residency permit (Aufenthaltstitel). I show both my passport and my residency card at the border, and nobody has ever stamped my passport flying into or out of Germany, or via Amsterdam. As for border checks while driving through France, Austria, Switzerland or Italy (admittedly in a German car) ....errr, what border checks? I can't remember ever having to show any documentation,  even during Covid.

In reply to yorkshireman:

No sadly thats not right. You are limited to 90/180 in other Schengen states. Wether your passport is stamped or not is irrelevant these days when there are so many ways big brother can tell where you are and how long you've been there. Do you own a mobile phone for instance??? Or use a bank card? Your digital fingerprints are everywhere. 
My fervent hope is that Sir Keir negotiates some FOM back again. Asap!