UKC

I'm trying to purchase a return ticket to Chamonix next Summer but:

A) Paris has the Olympics on at the same time;

B) No TGV trains from Paris onwards released until 2 months prior to the date required;

C) The cost of a London/Paris return is eye watering;

D) I can get a flight for half the cost of trains.

I was hoping to reduce my carbon footprint by getting the train, but the above factors make it nigh-on impossible.

This will need checking but I heard you can buy month long interail tickets, first class for around £500.

Might help?

Thank you - I've just checked the Interrail website and it looks like I can get a 4 day in 1 month pass for €258!

That looks too good to be true haha

Edit: I still have to purchase tickets at roughy €65 per journey. So the total would be €388 (or £335)

Yeah, we used interrail tickets for a trip a few months ago. We had three main days of travel planned (including the out and back legs) and the four day pass worked out significantly cheaper than buying tickets and left us with a free day for a random day trip in the middle. In fact, since you're allowed two days that include trains in your home country, it's probably not far off being good value for a return trip to London from a lot of places, if you conveniently forget to continue your journey to the continent by Eurostar... 

There are a few services where you have to pay a supplement (Eurostar being one) but it's still pretty good value.

Last year inter rail did some discounts in January IIRC, could be worth hanging on.

I am sure you will be aware of it, but seat61.com is super useful.

If you book ouigo in Spain, the upgrade for extra luggage at €5 also gets you a first class seat, maybe France is the same.

Worth using Trainline to research tickets as it searches all providers, whereas Renfe or SNCF might not.

Yes, of course, I still have to get from Bristol the day before to get an early train from St. Pancras.

Good call - this is looking better, thank you.

There are several reasons why flying is cheaper:

1. Aviation fuel is exempted from taxes, train fuel is not. 
2. Airports are subsidised, train stations are not. 
3. Airplanes fly in the air at no cost, train companies have to pay for using the railways in one form or the other.
4. Aviation companies can serve the airports more or less as they want, train companies are required to run regularly even outside rush hours. 

That;'s a good call.

Yes, currently looking at Seat61 and Rome2Rio

Nothing showing until 3 months before departure, I wanted the tickets sooner.

Many thanks - top tips

At the risk of sounding rude, but that's not my intention... I hadn't thought about why it was cheaper, but I do think the cost to the planet is greater, hense my desire to get the train.

I agree with you. The thing is, that not many are aware of these things and politicians are just letting it be, probably because the oil and aviation lobbyists are clever. Just look at the COP28. 

I think those things are in fact very clear to anyway who thinks about them at all.

What is not clear is why:

There is no through ticketing so any delay will cost passengers a fortune

Why tickets are all released at different times so if you buy one ticket at a reasonable price you may get clobbered when tickets for the next leg are released.

Why luggage rules are so opaque.

Why trains are so unreliable.

I wasn't aware of your pointers and I think it's outrageous that they can get away with it.

The UK rail network isn't nationalised and so can get away with the charges.

If I wanted to get from Bristol to London before 8am tomorrow it would cost me £126.40. If I went from Le Harve to Paris for 8am it would cost me £37.

Edit: Very poor English, sorry it's been a long day. I'm logging off now.

Thanks all

It seems to be pretty standard around the world for train companies not to release tickets until 2 or 3 months before departure.

Another option is perhaps using a coach, but not sure when they release tickets.

It isn't subject to full tax, they basically use red diesel in the UK.

I wouldn't hold up SNCF as an example of anything, it's pretty crap once you get off the main TGV lines.  Cheap maybe, but very poor.  For instance you get a couple of trains a day on rural lines we'd operate hourly.

dont forget to book your train to 'london international' rather than just to paddington or st pancreas - I think thats cheaper (as are some random ferry terminals stations)

I suppose you mean for domestic flights, because Jet fuel used for international aviation attracts no duty, and no VAT.

I'm talking about rail.  Rail doesn't pay full fuel tax on diesel within the UK, it pays a much reduced level - I think it's technically not actually red diesel but a different mechanism, but the tax implications are bascially the same.

For electric trains, electricity is not taxed (it's subject to VAT, but a company can reclaim that).

You're correct that aviation fuel is not taxed for any flights originating in the UK; Air Passenger Duty (which rail does not pay, there's a clue in the name) is charged instead as it can't be avoided by "filling up" in a cheaper country.

Your statement that "train stations are not" (subsidised) also isn't correct for the UK, Network Rail does receive a direct "network grant" separate from operating subsidy, which is in effect subsidising stations and tracks directly.

It looks like you're in Denmark - no doubt your rail industry is structured totally differently from ours.

There are 2 main reasons trains are unreliable at the moment.

1. Industrial unrest due to inflation devaluing wages (and a Government playing hardball)

2. Very high staff sickness compared to historical levels, which has largely been caused by us having added another virus to the standard mix a few years back and is likely (to use a phrase from the time) the "new normal", but recruitment and training takes time and additional money isn't always there for it.

Also someone has to pay for NATS so flying in the air isn't free, and I've no idea what criterion was used to decide on point 2. I don't think any of those 4 points can actually be said to be the case in the UK. Last time I did any thorough fact checking of a heavily 'liked' but factually questionable post on here people preferred to believe someone who was convincingly making stuff up, so I was going to leave this thread alone but since you've opened the box ...

Having re read your post, I am guessing the problem is that Trains in France hub from Paris, and the Olympics are on, therefore you are concerned of potential for chaos and maybe higher prices ¯_(ツ)_/¯ 

If you wish to cut your emissions, IMO, a laudable aim, even to the extent of some personal inconvenience and personal cost, would it not possible to go further North and do things you enjoy, possibly to the Dolomites, Bavaria or wherever, and go via Brussels. Obviously if you wish to eg ascend Mont Blanc, this is not an option. (No criticism here, only encouragement)

Rail companies and track are subsidised a great deal more than air travel. 

I think in this case the poster is in a different country where the structure of the railway industry is different, it does vary from country to country.

If you're flexible on dates and keep your eye on the UKC Lifts & Partners forum from May onwards, there's always Alpinists driving UK to Chamonix and back, throughout June/July/Aug, looking for passengers to share the cost of fuel/tolls.

I'm afraid both location and time are set in stone (give or take a day or two either side).

I am walking the TMB with a friend who has had to book annual leave.

Not totally correct. Rail companies in some countries externalise some of the cost of travel, from the user, to wider society, on the other hand, Air Transport externalise some of the (Enviromental) costs  from the user, to people often in poorer countries or people in the future. All jolly interesting stuff, but of no help to the OP, who is actually attempting to take positive steps to mitigate/ reduce, their personal impact.

Well you can only do your best. Keep trying with the Train, I have done some amazing train journeys this year, and a Senior Citizien Rail Card has been most useful. My Motto for this year become "Its all about the journey”. Whatever you do, enjoy your self and do it while you can

Especially when they themselves don't know the prices, the French are having a freeze/reorganisation/rail card introduction in 2024  so the operators don't know anything which makes things difficult.

Sorry it's me again, I love problems like this.

Fly there.

Return when you have a bit more leeway, maybe.

Hitchhike. 

Bla Bla car

UKC lifts and partners.

Or

Chamonix to Geneva to Brussels to London to Bristol

Yeah, that is a real pain. I normally work out the actual release distance close to the time so I can book on the day they come out. Aside from the websites mentioned above by others, try bahn.de - in my experience they will often come up with French trains that are different to the ones the Trainline finds.

Surely flights will also be eye-watering cost too?

Nigh-on impossible is exaggerating a bit...

Thanks for the extra link, I'll take a look.

I can get a return to Geneva for roughly £180 (Incl. bags etc), but realise I still need a transfer to Cham, usually anywhere between 20€ and 40€ return. So approx. £240 return.

Ok, I'll take that. Having seen other options it is indeed possible, it just takes mopre planning.