UKC

Hi all, I'm totally new to UKC so this is my first forum post, hoping to get a little advice. I'll be visiting the Isle of Skye mid June of this year with family and hopefully one of my climbing partners who goes to school in scotland but doesn't climb much except with me in California, so I'm looking here for help. I'll be there for three and a half days and I'm not really sure what gear to bring. I've ordered "Scottish Rock: North V2" for the specific rack that's most common and route specific beta (I'll probably bring doubles 3"-.4 BD c4/z4, singles .3-.1" Z4, offset DMM nuts 1 set, 1 set wild country rocks, 13 quickdraws). I'll be in Portree, so I was thinking of going to Staffin Slips and Kilt Rock, and perhaps Niest another day. These seem like pretty cool areas and I'm more into the seacliffs than what seem like more easy alpine routes on Sron na ciche, but if there's a really classic 5.8-5.9 (HVS?) multipitch somewhere up there without a super long approach i'd be interested but when I looked a lot of the routes up there seem pretty easy unless you do a variation and not worth the trek.

A few routes on my ticklist are from the "Skye Cracks" article from a UKC user. Grey Panther (E1 5b), Lat up a Drainpipe (HVS 5b), Frequent Flyer (HVS 5b). I like crack climbing and other recommendations with classic cracks are welcomed, but I'll probably just climb other things at the crags I'm already going to. I've never been to the country so I'm not really familiar with the grades or how sandbagged they are. I'm pretty comfortable onsighting up to 5.10a PG13 on granite in the sierras, for instance, and 5.6-5.9 i can really enjoy casually. But granite is probably an easier rock to read, so what grades should I be looking at climbing on dolerite? HVS-E1? or will VS still keep my attention and be fun climbing? 

My other question is about accessing seacliffs. For gear, I'm planning on bringing a single lead line (is 60m enough, or is 70m better)? and then I have a 50ft rigging line I could bring, or I could bring a 65m static line as a rappel rope. I've read lots about people leaving rappel lines to climb these seacliffs (that don't have easy bottom access), obviously each area is different but is that really necessary? Or could I skip bringing a whole extra rope and just use a short rigging line or long cordelette at the tops of the cliffs off the bolts or gear to set up a retrievable rappel and just be a bit more committed? It seems like even if I couldn't climb the route I set out to there would be easier routes I could climb to get out, or at the worst just aid out. I really want to avoid bringing 2 ropes overseas if it's avoidable, but my 50ft rigging line may be pretty useful. Any advice here?

Also, I do a decent amount of seacliff climbing where I live in CA and sometimes if it's not overhanging we just lower climber in and TR from above, is this common on the scottish seacliffs, or would people think we are clowns? Also will your belay stakes kill me, or is there generally updated hardware (titanium glue-ins) by the sea? Thanks for any tips and recommendations, I'm stoked to sample some scottish rock! 

In reply to nateblakely:

I'll start the party... 

I know its more normal to only use one lead rope in the US, so bring the 60m...

It you are keen on the routes you mention you will need an abseil line like the 60m you describe. 

You could lower in.. but more standard to set up an ab and leave this so you can escape and it's all much easier. 

Locals "may" help you out lending something. If you end up on the mainland and need any further advice, or potentially gear/rope then get in touch nearer the time. Inverness based. It will all depend on the weather. Hopefully it's fine, but if it's bad on Skye it could be great on the East Coast so bear this in mind and would be worth the travel. 

In reply to nateblakely:

There almost certainty won't be bolts at the top. Most commonly stakes or trad gear belays at the top, leaving a rap line in situ is the norm although at some sea cliffs you can just walk to the bottom. 

I've not climbed extensively in the States, but 5.10 in Yosemite can feel similar to top end E1, bottom end E2 in my opinion. Something like Royal Arches is probably similar to VS.

In reply to Alex Riley:

Totally agree, 5.10a (yosemite/ sierra's) is around hard E1, maybe E2, and definitely not HVS! 

In reply to nateblakely:

For Grey Panther (E1 5b) the normal approach is to abseil from a couple of mahoosive boulders. It is possible to scramble down a gully to the right (looking out) but we didn't fancy it. The ledge at the foot of the climbs is narrow with a big drop down to the sea, so anchor your second.

If you do go inland during June you will almost certainly encounter midges. This can be anything from mildly annoying to unbearable, so pray for wind and buy some Smidge or Jungle Formula.

I hope you get a dry week, Skye is fabulous.

In reply to nateblakely:

You will definitely need at least two ropes for the places you mention. Since you are used to climbing on a single rope (unusual in the UK) and the places you mention are well suited by British standards to that (generally pretty straight up), you are probably best sticking to that I think and bringing a separate rap/abseil rope to leave in place (normal here and a retrievable abseil might be qute awkward).

In reply to Andy Hardy:

It looks like Jungle Formula is DEET based, the bugs can't be any worse than inland sierras in the summer (famous last words?) does something like Ben's DEET100 do the trick for midges? I've used this stuff quite a bit in Washington & California. Ok. I'll just bring the extra static so we can climb whatever we feel like, thanks for the tip. I'll bring my rope protector as well for nasty edges. 

In reply to Simonfarfaraway:

that's nice to hear i won't be getting sandbagged joshua tree style (hopefully). Choss + harder than expected climbing is not exactly what I'm looking for on vacation. I'll stick to around E1 and maybe TR something harder. It will be difficult to get a feel for the grades with just a few days climbing so the advice is much appreciated. 

In reply to nateblakely:

I also forgot to mention ticks. The little buggers are everywhere and some are riddled with Lyme disease.

Wear long trousers and carry a tick spanner. 

Deet 100 is fine, but Smidge doesn't melt plastic and seems to work as well. 

In reply to nateblakely:

If you have good weather get up early one day (to avoid traffic issues), and gobti Glen Brittle. Walk up to  Sron na Ciche and climb the classic combination of Cioch Grooves (HVS 5a), Arrow Route (VD), and Trophy Crack (E1 5b).

You would be hard pushed to have a better day out anywhere in the UK.

Bear in mind that the weather can be extremely localised - be prepared to travel.. You might also want to think about Elgol for sea cliff cragging.  Suidhe Biorach is good.

Enjoy!

In reply to nateblakely:

Like another said, check out Elgol, so beautiful and great (friendly) sea cliff climbing (abseil approach). I think it's actually nicer than Neist! 

https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/suidhe_biorach-3202/

In reply to Simonfarfaraway:

haha the pictures of lichen and moss scared me off, I've navigated enough moss and lichen on slabs in CA to want to steer clear, but if the rock underneath all that is good maybe i'll check it out. 

In reply to nateblakely:

Staffin Slips South has some bolted anchors at the top (might be some of the very few bolts on the whole island). The dolerite cracks probably translate quite well to US climbing, but don’t expect any bolts and be prepared to actually use some wires!

In reply to nateblakely:

The Scottish midge can be a ruthless adversary.  Carry a head net.  It's one of the worst bug encounters I've had and I once spent a rainy summer night on Mosquito Island off the coast of Maine with no tent.  That said, wind is your saviour, so make sure whatever crag you're aiming for faces the wind.  Sea cliffs aren't exempt, last time I was at Elgol there was a stiff wind blowing, but we abbed down to find the cliff was in the lee of it.  It's an uncomfortable panic climbing in a cloud of relentless micro vampires.

That said, if you get the weather and avoid the midge, anywhere you climb on Skye will be pretty great.  Sron na Ciche is an excellent day out btw, and there are more challenging linkups to be done.

If you climb 5.10+ you should be fine up to E2.  Enjoy!

In reply to nateblakely:

Yes don't worry about the lichen.  The holds that get used are clean. 

In reply to grectangle:

More effective than chemical means.

In reply to nateblakely:

Sounds like you've done your research and come up with a pretty decent plan. The venues you mention should play to your strengths / comfort zone and experiencing British seacliff climbing is something very special that I don't think has an equivalent in the States. I'd echo the advice above about sticking with the single rope system you are familiar with and using a separate fixed rap line. Also, as you only have three days, I think your plan to stay fairly local in the north of the island makes sense - don't underestimate how long it takes to get from one end of Skye to the other!

Here's a couple of blog posts from the crags you have in mind - hope that's some help / inspiration. 

https://rockaroundtheworld.co.uk/2023/05/22/skye-seacliffs/

https://rockaroundtheworld.co.uk/2019/05/10/neist-point/

Have a great trip! Cheers, Dom 

In reply to nateblakely: You have mentioned it and I reckon you would get a fantastic time (weather permitting) in your grade at the Financial Sector at Neist. It’s west facing, cleaner and more open (so a breeze is more likely to keep the midge down) than the enjoyable Staffin Slip and less intimidating/hassle than Kilt. Have a hunt about in here and you’ll find pictures of Staffin Slip and Neist from last June https://www.flickr.com/photos/8027420@N04/with/52978627622 If you go back to maybe 2011 there are more. Have  a fantastic time when it comes.

In reply to nateblakely:

Sron na Ciche is totally worth it, both for the Cuillin scenery and for the gabbro, which is pretty unique. You can't go on a climbing holiday to Skye and not touch gabbro.

(We stayed on the Glenbrittle campsite to it was our local crag, and did a one day outing to Kilt Rock. Opposite situation for you in Portree)

Trophy Crack (E1 5b) Cioch Grooves (HVS 5a) and Vulcan Wall (HVS 5a) were the best routes we did in the grad range you're interested in.

In reply to nateblakely:

Outside the mountains Kilt Rock and the Financial Sector at Neist are outstanding at the grades it sounds like you’re aiming for. Suidhe Biorach is beautiful and something a bit different, but has less to go at. Also worth considering Spantastic at Flodigarry just for something a bit different (check out the photos).

In reply to nateblakely:

In my experience the same repellent works for midges and mosquitoes. The difference is numbers. You may not be able to belay without a head net. With DEET the midges won't bite, but they will get into your eyes and mouth and generally engulf you!

In reply to nateblakely:

Do get a midge head-net. Its the only way to be sure, and an absolute life saver while belaying. Smidge works well enough while you actually climbing, just be very wary of calm evenings!

Prob just repeating what others have said, but :

Staffin / Kilt rock great for the morning sun and if there is weather blowing in from the west. Cracks will translate reasonably well with US granite skills. Reckon you would be able to have a good go at the E2s on Staffin South, Lat up a Drainpipe is not all that, but a good intro to the rock.
Neist is great for afternoon and sunset. Less pure cracks, more grooves and mixed face climbing
Take a spare static for access wherever you go. There are some descent gullys but they are not always in the place you want them, and abseil anchors tend to be a bit back from the edge so you would risk being unable to retrieve your ropes (learned that the hard way on the ledge at Kilt Rock)

But if there is a cloud-free Cuillin, defo make the effort to get into Sron na Ciche, the approach path is good and doesnt take long from Glen Brittle. A day as mentioned including Cioch Grooves, something up the Cioch Slabs (picnic on the Cioch), Trophy Crack, and finishing with Vulcan Wall is really hard to beat at the grade. The rock is outstanding gabbro, the situation epic, and you can finish with a jump into the lochan before the walk out. Take a pair of ropes for this though and either a very early start to miss the Fairy Pools traffic, or camp up the previous night at Glen Brittle.

Enjoy!

In reply to nateblakely:

lots of good beta thanks to everyone