UKC

Hello, on the weekend a piece of ice fell and dented my black diamond vision. The dent is on the part of the helmet where the EPP section which joins to the thicker ABS crown section. I have never owned an EPP helmet before and was wondering if this was normal or is it time to replace it. If there is an inspection manual or guidence on EPP helmets a link would be appreciated. I have performed the squash test and no obvious cracks or cavities open up and the helmet remains firm and not squashy.

Best wishes max

Hopefully you are OK from the incident and did not suffer any injury yourself.

The helmet did what it was designed to do and took the impact of the ice instead of your head. The impact has damaged the helmet instead of your head.

It is now time to retire the helmet and buy a new one.

CB.

I have no technical knowledge but I'd be wanting to replace that if it were going to be on my head. Not worth the risk in my opinion. 

Personally, I would put a piece of duct tape over it and carry on, however it would fail an inspection (see screenshot of manual). From the BD range, I like the capitan and half dome helmets for winter as they have greater coverage and less exposed foam. I had one of the older half domes for a long time (too long!) and it took some heavy hits without much damage.

I’d be happy to wear it too.

Was wondering if a smear of clear silicon mastic on the damaged part would “glue” it and provide some stability… then duct tape of course 😀

Generally it is a bad idea to try and add anything that might contain solvents near helmet foam. Add to that the silicone will modify the material properties means this really wouldn't be the smartest idea for safety.

In my opinion, if you're asking whether you should replace a helmet, you already know the answer. 

By all means carry on using it if you feel safe to do so, but know that it will not perform to the same degree in the circumstance that the same area is impacted or stressed.

It may be worth reaching out to BD customer service, brands will often offer a crash replacement price on helmets. 

Thanks, I think that is the safe option. now to find a replacement that is more sturdy. Shame all the hardshell ones are ugly. 

Best wishes max

Thanks, I will speak to BD and see what they offer but doubt I'll be getting a like for like replacement. Solvent free might be a bit better but still you don't know what's in it. Best to just replace and accept that it's done it's job.

Give it to the Spencer (BMC test team), he can be found in this thread.

https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/gear/photos_of_damaged_climbing_equipment...

Posted the pictures in the thread, offered to send him more if needs be. Thanks 

I've filled a nick in a similar model of helmet before, although it's obviously important to understand material properties for anyone considering this. Otherwise it's just a cosmetic repair (or maybe not even that). My main reason for doing it was that I felt there was a locally reduced impact resistance due to the nick. I used a type of structural urethane adhesive that we use in my prosthetics/orthotics workshop. Not familiar with high street products to really give any more useful advice. Short answer anyway is that I haven't thrown out my helmet out due to a similarly small nick. 

(Cynical viewpoint alert) BD are never going to advise you to repair the helmet due to the amount of uncontrollable variables that this would introduce, from a safety/legal point of view, and of course the best outcome for them is that you buy a new helmet. Doesn't mean it can't be done in a safe manner as far as I'm concerned. 

Ta, I'd seen the photos this afternoon but didn't respond as I needed to go and pick my girlfriend up from the station.

These helmets have a 3 part construction, Expanded Polypropylene (EPP) on the sides, Expanded Polystyrene (EPS) over the crown and a thin section of formed ABS (some long chemical name I don't know off the top of my head) over the the EPS. The idea being that the ABS protects the EPS section from minor impacts and surface damage such as standing up under a roof and smacking your head on the crag, in a big hit the ABS will spread out the load over a wider area of the EPS reducing the stress applied to the EPS and enabling a greater volume of the material to be involved in absorbing the energy of the impact. The EPP on the sides is a bit better at dealing with being shoved in bags etc as it can flex and return to its original shape.

EPP absorbs energy elastically (think what happens when you put a rubber under pressure) and can often take multiple impacts while EPS absorbs it by breaking apart (the stuff used in climbing helmets and bike helmets works on the same principle as polystyrene, just able to absorb more energy and being less prone to lose bits).

A mate took a massive lob off Kelly's Overhang a few years ago and wrote off a BD helmet, they gave him a hefty (circa 50% I think?) discount on a replacement which he gladly accepted on the rationale that he walked away from the accident without brain damage so the helmet did its job (I had a similar mentality to replacing a bike helmet a few years ago). Video for context of how bad the head impact was (Not Safe for Life Warning):

https://www.google.com/search?q=kelly%27s+overhang+weekend+whipper&rlz=...

Given the divot taken out of the side of yours any load applied to that area will be distributed over a smaller volume, a similar impact in the same position would have a higher likelihood of cracking the helmet on that section so I'd definitely not be trying to repair the helmet (the crash replacement stuff that manufacturers do is typically to discourage people using helmets that are damaged or have been bodge repaired). This response is of course relatively conservative given that I haven't got it in hand to look at in detail, my old Petzl Scirocco (the entirely EPP one, not the mixed EPP and EPS versions sold now, unfortunately out of use due to being stolen) had several dings in the crown section from me smacking my head, but I was confident it was safe to use still as they were relatively small.

I'll try and take a more detailed look at the photos on Sunday in terms of what I am trying to show in the equipment maintenance document.

@Dunthemall Thanks for pointing Max at my thread

Generally helmets can't take repeated impacts in the same place, they won't absorbed the next hit if the foam is compressed or shell damaged.

Others: glues on helmets have to be specific to not weaken the plastic. Manufacturers stickers, pads for branded cameras have special glue. Using any old glue is a risk. 

I'd be happy to use that for the rest of the trip, then replace when there is the opportunity.