UKC

I have just seen a thread on a CTC forum about how not wearing a helmet may void your Travel Insurance. https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?t=162987 , now wearing or not wearing helmets is a very hot topic for some cyclists, in fact they have forums just to discuss this.

The issue appears to revolve around this term in a policy  'any appropriate safety equipment' 

But I did wonder if not wearing a helmet whilst climbing might void travel insurance. 

It would probably depend on the insurer, there are probably ones useless enough to think that you need to wear one bouldering while having a policy wording that would not exclude ice climbing without one. This would probably be the relevant line from the BMC policy I had this summer:

You should take reasonable care to protect yourself and your property against accident, injury, loss and damage and to minimise any claim.

I suspect that you would struggle to justify not wearing one as reasonable when ice climbing or up in the mountains/ on multi pitch stuff, but would be ok bouldering without in Font. Stuff in between those risk levels would probably provoke a discussion (personally I wear a lid if harnessed up outside as I am clumsy).

Its really not, just old codgers refuse them as per the thread you link to

Given that the norm these days is that you do wear one when climbing outdoors but hardly anyone wears one climbing indoors then I suspect those norms are what would be followed by any insurer in the case of an injury where one would have been relevant.

Not really the norm, though, is it? Lots of variables - rock type, grade, single/multi pitch, etc.

There are times when I probably wouldn't feel the need to wear one outdoors and other times where I would.

These days I'd say it is - there's been a general shift in favour, just like cycling.  Everyone I climb with now always wears one climbing on natural rock.

Scrambling I think remains as a "sometimes, sometimes not" thing though.  Suspect that too will shift over time but not yet.

Not really, I frequently see people of all ages sport climbing abroad not wearing a helmet, particularly on harder climbs, where possibly people will get too hot wearing a helmet, purely due to the extreme physical exertion. In spain the law says you have to wear a cycle helmet, but makes various exceptions, such as if cycling up hill.

Personally I do not care what they do, but I am interested the lack of a helmet could be a get out clause on travel insurance.

Hot topic?

I work in cycling. I live at the bottom of one of the most famous cycling climbs in the Tour de France. I've also been cycling in the Alps this year 3 times.
I must've seen tens of thousands of cyclists out on the roads since April.

I've seen three people without helmets.

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The only place where cycling without a helmet seems to be holding out is the Netherlands, where it's seen as a slightly faster variation on pedestrianism with safe infrastructure significantly reducing the risk of being knocked off.  I can't remember the last time I saw a road cyclist without one.

With regard to climbing, I think modern lightweight helmets have changed things.  I usually didn't wear one on a hot day when I used to have a hard plastic type one as it tended to result in overheating, but now I've got a lightweight ventilated one I pretty much always wear it.

Regardless of whether you might see people at non-UK crags without (or indeed belaying with a Grigri and one hand with a coffee and the other with a cigarette) I suspect insurance companies would at least be reducing payouts for head injuries without one based on contributory negligence.

But, if you go to a crag near you, how many climbers are not wearing Helmets, which previously I would consider their choice, no one elses business, but it would appear, it might be the business of the insurance companies.

Going back to cycling, in 1200 miles of cycle touring in Europe last year, only wore my Helmet in Paris, but nowhere else, and I always wear my helmet in the UK, possibly I would act differently now. But on this thread, I am interested in the climbing aspect, and if not wearing a helmet could invalidate a claim in climbing accident.

I had a policy one year that covered via ferrata, providing you didn't need to use a rope - so basically that meant if I miss judged the difficulty and wanted the extra safety of roped protection (or wanted to abseil off due to changing conditions) I'd be uninsured.

Opted for AAC membership so I knew all activities would be covered, hopefully without question. Having a policy that actively encourages you to NOT take extra safety measures where conditions require it is bonkers.

I was referring to cycling. The only time I see people without helmets is in the city, and even that is becoming less common despite the high quality of the infrastructure. 

As for climbing sure, it's more variable, especially sport climbing where, like bouldering, the risk of head injury is very low. 

Are you serious, you know at the base of these Limestone crags, have you seen all the stones and rocks, these have fallen from above, I could well imagine an insurance person thinking the risk of head injury at a sport climbing crag to be high, wether climbing or not. And on this thread, its what an insurance person would think that matters.

 

*ahem* and Denmark, which actually has better cycle infrastructure

My impression is that most people wear helmets these days for trad climbing, but it's far from universal for single pitch sport climbing. I do, as do most of the people I climb with, but lots of people don't.

I don't think this is the case at all for sport climbing in the UK.

At a loose quarry, helmets are pretty common. But go to Malham, Kilnsey, Raven Tor, the Cornice, LPT, the Diamond etc etc and the proportion of people wearing helmets is tiny.

Probably also add in those riding hire bikes in cities, not because it's any safer but because if you didn't bring your own bicycle you probably weren't planning on riding one and thus probably didn't bring a helmet either.

Interestingly I seem to recall the hire scooters in Bristol include helmet hire!

True.  Were I at a crag and we only had one (OK, contrived situation, but let's say one person forgot), I'd probably put it on the belayer rather than the climber...

I suspect their line would be, for any activity where wearing helmets is common*, "if there was a head injury, a helmet should have been worn as it would almost certainly have mitigated it to some extent".

* So not crossing the road for example, even though that sometimes does result in head injuries.  Similarly nobody seems to wear one ice skating despite that being the only activity in which I have ever fallen and knocked myself out (albeit only very briefly)!

Aren't you legally obliged to wear a helmet on escooters in the UK? If so, I'd guess that's why...

No.  Most rules pertaining to the legal ones are the same as bicycles, with the exception that a driving licence is required (any driving licence) and the drink-drive rules are as per cars, not bicycles.

Illegal ones are just illegal whether a helmet is worn or not (they aren't type approved as motorcycles and wouldn't be).

Yeah, it depends on the venue. Horeshit quarry I'd be wearing a helmet, but a good sport crag like the ones you list, there's no need IMO. 

I used to think the same about there often not being a need, then I had an accident where I took a huge lob, flipped upside down, hit the wall back first, closely followed by the back of my head. Thankfully, for reasons unknown I had decided I would wear my lid that day and so I was fine. Got given a cup of coffee, then got back on the route. Had my head taken a whack like that sans helmet that may have been the last time I ever climbed.

Saw a similar fall just a couple of weeks ago in Kalymnos, very experienced climber, helmet smashed to pieces but it being on his head meant my mate needed a beer and a sit down instead of a helicopter.

These situations are rare, mine and the one I saw a couple of weeks ago are the only ones I’ve seen in 10+ years but in both cases our helmets absolutely saved our bacon and we were really, really relieved we had them on.

I’ll never climb outdoors without a lid on, and although it’s a matter of personal choice, I’d always encourage others to do the same.