UKC

Hi. I'm after some sport draw length slings, but open (like a 60cm sling is) not sewn together up the middle (dog bone). Searched the Internet. Any ideas? Thanks 

30cm tends to be the shortest that most manufacturers make. 

There are a couple of 30cm options easily available, if you want to go shorter than that: 

20cm from Lyon: https://ukrigging.net/shop/anchors/lyon-textile-sling/

10/15/20cm slings from the aerial silks/rigging world: https://www.firetoys.co.uk/products/prodigy-aerial-sewn-loop-slings

UKC thread on the same topic a while ago: https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/gear/replacement_quickdraw_software-77073...

I’m curious, what do you want it for?

I gave a bunch of old ones away not so long ago - but they were well used. I thought they stopped making them because they were dangerous if they twist or something... there was that DMM video of I think Streaky showing how the rubber bands to hold the krab in place could lead to accidental release of the krab.

I don't see the issue if you don't use a rubber band as a keeper?

DMM have an 18cm 11mm dyneema sling on their trade pricelist, but I don't know where you'd find someone stocking it.

I don't think the 18mm is open though; that's the longer length of their trad draws (usually in red). Ocun & Mammut do a 30cm open in Dyneema and Lyon do a 30cm in nylon (plus lots of others I imagine) but I've never seen anything shorter. I'm sure I remember chat about this on a TR soloing topic and anything shorter than 30cm needed to be bodged with cord. 

The video demonstrating the danger of open slings was more about using a retaining band than using an open sling, as if the sling re-clips through the krab in your bag without you noticing, you can find yourself with only the rubber band between the krab and the sling. Without the rubber band, if the sling re-clipped itself, the krab would just fall off. 

There are additional dangers of using open slings though, such as them more easily getting snagged on the noses/cross-loading krabs than closed slings. 

I went round this buoy earlier in the year - it was my thread linked above by Patrick.

I bought the 10cm and 15cm x 18mm prodigy ones from the Firetoys link.

They are the same certifications as ones you'd get from climbing manufacturers (EN566:2017 / EN354:2010 / EN795:2012 B)

Unfortunately, they are only in black.

Not used them as QDs, though - I have them on the back of my harness for clipping a safety line and forward abseiling.

I don't necessarily disagree with any of what you've explained, but it's frustrating that you can't still easily get short open slings for other purposes - especially when you potentially have the same issues with longer slings and they're still fitted as standard on things like cams and hexes!

Yep, except them being more of a faff to clip! 

Ah, you're right, for some reason I was looking at the 2019 pricelist which it is on but seems to not be on the current one.

Perhaps more versatile though eg can be used for small spikes and threads especially if no slings left when belaying.

Short open quick draws are also useful when you're running short of krabs on a route.  You can extract both krabs whereas with a modern quickdraw, one krab is rendered useless by the sling and its retaining rubber thingamajig.

It's not rendered useless. You can just push the dogbone round until it's out of the way and use the krab as normal. I did this recently on a route where every runner needed at least a 60cm extender and all I had left was a bunch of short quick draws and standard slings.

It would have to be a very small spike for a 10 cm sling, like the ones I ended up with a lot of - I think from the first gen of WC Wildwires. I guess you might be able to find the odd spike you'd trust that a 30 cm sling would go over, but I suppose you'd start worrying about the angle being wide on anything above a really small spike!

Yes, I was thinking about tiny spikes and threads as part of an anchor, but 10cm is indeed a bit small. Open slings just gives a bit more versatility.

Similarly I still have some older wedges on short cord slings which function as prusik loops, tie offs and extenders if need be.  The nut (or two) can be slid away from the ends to maximise strength for this. Means I'm happier with a small rack.

Belay rig.

For when the two points of a fixed anchor are linked in situ.

Short open quick draw with three 3way lockers, 2 of which are HMS style. Clip lower bolt. Italian hitch yourself into one hms and lock it off. Bring second up on second Italian. Lock it off. They unlock your Italian the belay you up next pitch. Fast and easy to read. The short open draw also generates safe and easy to read space to hang the third person or sacks. The second Italian could alternatively be a guide plate. But either way, everything is carried on the short open draw. So simple and easy to pass between climbers

Problem solved.

Expensive, but if you cut a PAS up you get several loops.

An alternative idea I guess is to use a metal rap ring.

Or a loop made from 8mm rope tied with double fishermans?

One option not mentioned above is the Petzl St'Anneau, which is available in 24 cm. It's made of Dyneema, so it's softer and less bulky than belay-style loops from a PAS, and it's cheaper as well. The link above is to Dick's Climbing, but it's widely available elsewhere as well.

For your exact use case, you may also want to consider the Grivel Vlad.

Yes, that's an option I also considered. Did also try and get just a belay loop from one of the manufacturers, but they didn't seem keen to supply it.

Belay loops, if I remember correctly, only have to be rated to 15kn, slings 22kn (not really an issue but ...)