UKC

Am i able to get added as a moderator to all the kalymnos crags? Theres a load of grade upgrades and downgrades in the new book. i dont mind submitting them to the current moderators to deal with, equally i dont mind just getting on with it myself. Whats best?

Which book are you referring to? Grades on the public page will always be the Rockfax grade if covered by the RF Kalymnos guide, so they are only changeable if done so by the author as an update to the app. 

I thought that would be the answer to George's question, and I understand that that's general ukc/rockfax policy, but it's a bit unfortunate in this case where there's a definitive guide that's significantly more up to date than rockfax.

Similar issues in Yorkshire where the Rockfax app update to Kilnsey has pointlessly changed the grades of quite a few routes (mostly upgraded), when the much more up to date Wired guide Northern Rock saw no need to...

A RockFax digital update was released in 2022, only one year before the other guide. There will always be a difference in opinion regarding grades between guidebooks. It might be worth checking the digital version. 

https://rockfax.com/news/2022/10/11/kalymnos-major-rockfax-digital-update/

Grade changes are often, though not always, the result of feedback. The wired guide only pulls from current guides in a kind of best-of, which may be why there are no grade changes. 

Thats not right. Since I wrote some of the Limestone sections, I assure you I did not crib it from current guides. The entire Yorkshire Limestone section in Northern Rock is newly written, and any grade changes there are based on research. Thats not whats happened with the Kilnsey update or the complete mess that is now the Gordale logbooks. 

We don't enforce this policy anymore Daimon. The UKC mod can change the grade.

As per my previous answer. We don't do this anymore for this very reason.

Not sure what the score is here but the 2024 Kalymnos guide has a whole bunch of grade changes. We’ve only really climbed at Noufaro but virtually every route we’ve done has had a grade change (and there are some new ones that have been added, and now the grade needs altering after settling). Some routes are 2 grades different, it’s a worthwhile endeavour I thought!…

I mean like solid grade changes; I wouldn’t call this a difference of opinion, it’s just wrong. One route has gone from 8b to 8a and even then it’s not unreasonable. I can just leave them if that’s the done thing, looks good on the stats 🤣

Surely we all want the right grade, not be just kidding ourselves by taking grades that are plain wrong. Massive overgrading just mucks up my log book imho.

Kalymnos has always been soft but some of the new crags are ridiculous in this respect.

Thanks, Paul, that's an interesting development.

I think voting is the best way to communicate this, but that's only my opinion.

The key word there being ‘new’.
New places with a mix of equippers take time to settle. Kalymnos is settling down now, though crags like Griffig and the initial massive overgrading does seem like an anomaly. That too has settled to be normally graded now. 

George; I’d be happy for you to help moderate, I’m not there anymore and my finger is most definitely not on the pulse.

If the UKC guys can add George please. 

Yeah I just thought you wouldn’t want to get bombarded with all the change requests Mike that’s all! Thanks for keeping the logbook for Kalymnos in such good order and your comments about routes are really helpful because you can’t rely on stars…!

Yeah the thing is grading new routes must be really tough. Once the climb gets chalked, the best sequence gets established, maybe some holds break or become less sharp, maybe people start doing a bit of a loop one way or the other that the equipped didn’t envisage, then it might get easier. Or a crucial tufa breaks and it gets harder. Either way no one should moan about a proposed grade, and equally it’s nothing personal if then others up or downgrade it. That’s how we arrive at a consensus. No route is going to feel quite the same for any two people….

I stand corrected, and congratulations on your work with that guide.

Regarding the research aspect, I hope UKC played a positive role in some way.

Hi George,

I'm happy for you to take on any of the Kaly crags that I've been moderating. I'm still trying to get out there at least once a year but must accept that as I get older I find it harder to be objective of grades anymore. I sometimes think we should have a separate grading system for the over 70s🤣

I think we should have a separate grading system for the over 70s🤣

I’m in full agreement Dave.

@Separate grade system, yesss! Please also include an overweight factor to further individualize it and make me happy!