UKC

Forgive me if this isn't the correct forum in which to post this question - and please move it if not. However:

I have today received an email from the BMC informing me of my 'digital" membership card for this year, along with suggestions to use that card with either the Apple or Google 'wallet.'

I am competent with both networking and technology (it's my job), but I don't want to use either of the above - nor should I be forced to. So, if I want to prove the fact of my BMC membership personally somehow - what am I supposed to do?

And why have I only been informed about this two months after my previous membership card has expired? That doesn't seem great. In practice, for me, an actual membership card would be much better.

[This post appears to have been posted twice. Mods: that's a problem related to your interface. Please delete the redundant post. Thanks.]

I renewed my individual membership a couple of months ago and received a paper membership card through the post. I also received the email about digital membership a cpuple of days ago. So I'm assuming the digital card is an extra thing, not a replacement.

But I happen to like having a physical card I can stick in my wallet. And I carry a wallet. Which probably makes me increasingly unusual. So I don't expect it will last.

It would be nice to know what the plan is.

TBH, I am not the BMCs greatest fan, but going digital with the membership card is hardly an infringement of your human rights.

The other day, I used the windermere ferry, no cash allowed, only card, so legal tender is no use, which is possibly more of an issue.

Why would you not want to use a digital card, just being awkward (which is a much underrated quality), or is there a practical reason 🤔 

I think my overall question relates to what the actual plan is, and how it has (or, more to the point, hasn't) been communicated.

Not really, it reads more as disgusted of Tunbridge Wells.

Andy Johnsons post, reads more as possibly you intended.

I didn't receive a paper membership card this year; the email I have only just received is the first and only communication which I have received on the subject.

In addition, I note that the expiry of the new membership is the calendar year end, rather than what I think was the financial year end.

Yes.

Stretching things a little. I was just looking at booking the Glenbrittle Hut, it said I'll need to put in bmc/smc membership on booking form and when arriving at hut in their book. Mobile Data Service isn't the best there. Yes I know I could save to phone or screenshot it, but some might not. 

As you wish ...

All I was hoping for was some straight answers to what is a slightly confusing (and so far unexplained) situation.

Things added to Google Wallet generally seem to be available offline by default. I'd imagine Apple's version would be similar.

Don't know, I try not to rely on service providers like that, I'd rather just screen shot it. Perhaps over thinking it, I just don't want everything tied to one individual cloud service in case it all goes pear shaped. 

Possibly, but it's a rapidly changing world, and I would suggest the BMC is doing its best to change with it. Clubs email newsletters now, my Doctor is moving to only giving appointments that have been requested electronically, in this context, the BMC persisting with physical cards would seem odd.

Just watched Have I Got News for you, and apparently most 18 to 24 year Olds Gen somethings, do not know what a hole punch for putting paper in a ring binder is.

Maybe you could just ask the BMC; it's contact email address is [email protected]. Or, there's more ways to contact the organisation at https://thebmc.co.uk/en/contact 

Imagine never having the joy of a hole punch cover coming off and hundreds of paper circles everywhere, i still use one for filing paper receipts/ invoices in case I get tax audited, it's more work to digitise it all. 

That's fine. But what I was really probing for was - since us members haven't actually been told yet, is: what is the actual plan?

Do you know? Or are you just lecturing us ad hoc? (In which case, possibly, pack it in?)

I could do, indeed. But since this affects many thousands of people - many of whom post here - it struck me to ask the question here instead.

Do you have any answer?

That's not what you said in the OP.

If you want to know, ring +44 161 445 6111 on Monday, a person will answer the phone, they are really nice and helpful, probably email you a card, or, you could print a picture of your digital card, and pop that in your wallet.

Goodbye.

✋️ 

More generally, I am increasingly concerned about losing my phone. *Everything* now requires it, what with 2FA and so on. It would be far worse than losing a wallet.

That is a very legitimate concern. (And, as I implied above, part of this stuff is my job.)

Back to the current context, I am perturbed by having this stuff forced on me by the BMC - and, also, having this done late, and unannounced.

An answer? No, but I don't speak for the BMC.

However, I have suggested a solution and provided you with information that might assist you to get the answer.

If you are genuine in your desire for "straight answers" you're more likely to get what you want by contacting the organisation with which you have a problem. Thereafter, if you are genuinely concerned about the "many thousands of people", you could post the results of your endeavours here in order to assist them.

Of course, if all you want to do is bitch about something that you don't like, feel free to ignore my suggestion and accept my apologies for interrupting your thread.

I am asking genuine questions which possibly(?) affect many people here. And my questions are entirely straightforward.

If you have anything to offer in respect of those questions, then I will be delighted to hear from you. But, otherwise, I am puzzled by your response.

Your move, John.

I'm not the person you were replying to, but...

I personally don't have a problem with that. Haven't used cash in years, and debit cards don't need an internet connection.

But (devil's advocating a bit here), no bank account == no lake crossing. Is that always a good thing?

Because it requires a smartphone. Is possessing such a device now a condition of membership of the bmc? Don't we know enough now about the negative effects of smartphone use, at least for some people, that there might be a case for not mandating ownership of a device?

I work in tech. I write software for a living. I deal with "digital" all the time. Which is why I personally prefer a piece of paper in my back pocket to yet another digital thing that I have to manage 

I imagine it's to save money. It would cost around £75k to post a card to every member. Whilst I understand your concerns, I suspect many people will actually find digital more convenient. If you really want a piece of paper just print it out.

I think to make a card payment, an internet connection will need to be present, for the card reader.

Personally I think you should always be able to pay cash, lots of reasons, but one is poorer people may not have access to a bank account.

I agree with this, however the BMC are just doing what other organizations are doing, it will save them a load of money, which they need to save, and for the last few years the card in with a summit mag has been a bit of a farce, with loads going in the bin. 

This is simple, Screen shot and print it, you could even laminate it and put it in your wallet.

Could I ask when you ever need to show your BMC card, other than occasionally for a discount?

0.24% of people don't have a bank account. Expecting companies to have the expense of handling cash for such a small.group doesn't seem reasonable. There might.be other reasons.

I think it is reasonable.

However producing and posting a paper card at great expense, for a nearly bankrupt organization, to keep a few grumpy IT professionals happy, seems less so.

That's an interesting statistic; may I ask where it comes from?

In 2018, the FCA estimated that 1.3 million people in the UK were unbanked. Assuming a population of c.70 million people (including children) that number would be nearer 1.8%.

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201719/cmselect/cmtreasy/1642/16420...

Assuming that c.12.5m people are children, the number of unbanked rises to 2.2% (of the adult population of the UK)

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriage...

I accept that I'm bouncing around between years for my numbers but your statistics suggests that, within seven years, the number of unbanked has dropped from 1,300,000 to around 175,000. That's actually quite impressive if it's true.

Edit: clarification

I hadn't noticed until this thread that my physical card had expired on 31st March, so a digital card arriving two months later is a bit naughty. I'm OK with the principle though. I find it impossible to carry all the cards I might need in my physical wallet.

Thanks for your thoughtful reply.

Perhaps. But some card readers store card and transaction details for upload later. So could be either, but I can hink we're in agreement.

I agree.

Just because other orgs are doing it doesn't make it appropriate imo. It's still making ownership of a smartphone (or means to access the net and print something) a requirement for membership. Some people can't or won't own a smartphone for various reasons (not just economic). 

Discounts is basically the only reason. So maybe I could soften my statement above to "It's still making ownership of a smartphone [...]  a requirement for accessing membership benefits." Either way, I'm still agin it.

For myself, its partly "digital vegan" principles and partly the hassle factor of yet another digital thing to wrangle. Maybe the bmc will have the option to request a physical card? That would be a good compromise. It would be useful to know what their plans are.

Here (quotes elsewhere too). It does seem to have risen rapidly in a few years.

https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/United-Kingdom/percent_people_bank_account....

Edit. Primary source seems to be World Bank data

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/FX.OWN.TOTL.ZS?end=2021&locations=...

Thanks for the link.

I'm surprised by the apparent fluctuation in the numbers; the link that you provided states that the ten-year average (2011-2021) is 98.07% so, perhaps, we're both correct (or, both wrong). Notwithstanding, quite how the UK has managed to reduce the number of unbanked from 1.13m (ten-year average) to c.175,000 in 2021 is a bit of a mystery. Interesting stuff though.

This. Luckily for me a couple of shops have accepted my word that I am still a BMC member even though my card has expired.

And thank you for your reply

I with you on this over reliance on smartphones and digital. I was in Shetland a couple of weeks ago, and saw the impact of the COOP computer hack, with nearly empty food shelves for a few days, so when we do our shop today we will be buying a couple of weeks worth of non perishable foods and having some cash in the house*, just in case of some major tech outage impacting us on a societal level.

However in my opinion, if you want a paper card, printing your own is not too onerous, and will help the BMCs financial situation. If the BMC produced emailed a card, would you be happy to print it? As too the “plan” as a long time BMC sceptic, I do think they are getting it together as far as communications go, trouble is, the BMC is so complex (too complex?), there is an awful lot to communicate.

*Some Tinfoil too, to make myself a hat.

Well I replied to the email immediately to ask whether anything other than digital cards would be issued. No response!

Perhaps someone from the BMC could post on this thread to say what's going on.

For info; I don't have or want a smart phone so a digital card is no use to me whatsoever. This is a personal choice and nothing to do with any fear of new things. I'm also disturbed that the BMC email came out without any consultation, and that my existing card is out of date without notice. 

Cheers - not just me, then.

Communication from the BMC seems as inept as ever. I hope it eventually improves.

Have you considered using a pen and paper to write your membership number down?

I tried to rewrite this a few times to not sound facetious, but I failed! 

I say it because all the times I have used my membership benefits….

The majority of times I get the discount without needing to provide any evidence at all

or

I just needed to use a discount code

or

I just provided my membership number, and I think once the expiry date.

Ive never actually once produced the physical card in order to access the membership benefits.

That could indeed be done. But a question is: what authentication is considered satisfactory by the various businesses to which we might be trying to provide evidence of our membership?

For example, if I go into a Cotswold's shop, and just say I'm a BMC member, and then quote any old number - is that enough?

No. 

Last Saturday I tried to get discount in Betws y Coed Cotswold. My paper BMC card expired 31 March 2025 and they refused to believe that i was a member despite showing 2 other BMC affiliated club cards. 

It was all rather annoying so i emailed the BMC. 

I havent had the courtesy of a reply yet,  but miraculously the digital card arrived within days...Whether that will work in a shop I've no idea. 

It was announced at area meetings earlier this year, then members were told about it in an email in April before the digital membership cards were sent out.

If you have concerns about this and how it's been handled please contact your area or constituency reps, or failing that I am happy to mention it under AoB in my capacity as an observer at next weekend's council meeting (as a specialist committee chair I can't vote on stuff but am allowed to talk, I'm not listed because my predecessor requested for the status to be optional to reduce time demand associated with chairing technical committee):

https://www.thebmc.co.uk/en/bmc-members-council

Aha, abcdefghijk has not read their emails, I am disgusted and perturbed.

In fact, I received and read that email. It didn't give any details about the implementation of the 'digital' membership card, nor, as I recall, did it give a date by which that card would be issued. As others have commented, there has been a two month gap where none of us have had a valid membership card.

You seem very defensive - almost, to a paranoid extent - about this. 

That wasn't what I was trying to say, just that the BMC did inform members it was happening. I don't feel it's been especially clear how it's going to be implemented, however I know that the office staff are rammed with work and have been for a long time which likely explains the delay in it being implemented.

There should be a simple option to download an image of the card to save on phone or print. The present link needs a bit of fiddling to save a sensible image.

(Aalso, a link on the website to the mso page would be useful).

DOI: Smart phone user but not Google wallet / apple user.

There should be a simple option to download an image of the card to save on phone or print. The present link needs a bit of fiddling to save a sensible image.

(Aalso, a link on the website to the mso page would be useful).

DOI: Smart phone user but not Google wallet / apple user.

There is an option to open the card in a new window which you can then print or download.

I'm not especially techy but none of this seems awfully difficult.

Why can’t you just write down your membership number?

I can/could. But see, for example, Babika's post above. The crux of the matter is what evidence of membership is considered satisfactory by third parties. In that context, me just telling someone my membership number might not be enough.

After reading this thread yesterday I tried following the links in the recent email from the BMC to set a password and get a digital card. No success and eventually got "unauthorized client" message. May be just my poor IT skills. 

.

For me it opens as an image in the corner if an A4 pdf.

Yes, I clipped the relevant bit and saved it to where I keep my cards, but why make it complicated. Just need a second link to an image of the card as well as one to the A4. 

Indeed there is. There's a link that says "Open membership card in new window" which does exactly what it says on the tin.

Then, like me, print it out and laminate it back to back with your travel insurance car and head off on adventures. I’m not sure what this thread is actually about?

Have you tried either saving the resulting image, or printing it? If not, please give that a try, and report back whether it works as you might hope.

(Reason for asking: it's not working for me, on Firefox/Ubuntu.)

See this post from sometime before yours. The contents of the tin could be more useful (as others are commenting).

https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/crag_access/questions_about_the_bmc_digit...

Edited to  correct spelling autocorrect

I definitely can't download the card from that page - please let me know if you can.

Likewise, printing to PDF fails: I only get the embedded monochrome text.

This is on Firefox/Ubuntu. Maybe the result is different on other platforms - but I don't particularly want to experiment myself.

I did a screenshot of the page which the link takes you to and cropped it, as I wanted an image rather than something to print.

Seems quite resistant to printing the coloured bits otherwise (even if you select print background). Perhaps the people who read tins (as above) can help.... 

Thanks. I realized that I could have resorted to a screenshot - and I will do, if necessary - but I think you and I are both pointing out what appears to be a deficiency in the interface.