UKC

What's considered the optimum distribution of rope between a two person team for glacier crossing and to preform crevasse rescue?? assuming a 50m rope and around 15-20 m of rope between partners including knots to assist braking. 

Interested to hear the approach for crevasse rescue for different rope amounts distributed between the two parties.   

Thanks

Assuming both people know how to do crevasse rescue I'd suggest splitting the reserve rope equally. If you're climbing together regularly you can work this out in advance so you just count coils instead of measuring distance - ie you both take 6 (for example) coils each when you rope up. 

Personally I think at least 15m distance separating 2 climbers, and knots are a good idea. Heavier person should be uphill when possible - it's much harder holding fall on a slope.  

Thanks for confirming my thinking. the only issue would be hauling on the knotted rope. Possible but I imagine quite difficult. 
 

The other option I was thinking would be for the person at the rear (most likely to hold the fall) to take all of the spare rope, and the other take a radline as a backup rescue rope. Both of these options would allow for a dropped loop pulley system without knots. 
 

thoughts?? 

Knots or not, realistically it’s unlikely you’ll manage to haul a partner by yourself. IMHO it’s better limit the fall with knots in the hope the guy in the hole doesn’t get injured and can self rescue back up the rope that you have somehow managed to secure to the snow or ice.

I realise it’s difficult. I’ve done it on the past with an unknotted rope and a partner who was able to assist. 
 

agree, it would be very difficult with an injured partner, but still want to give myself the best option. 

The single most important thing is to hold the fall. Knots definitely help, so IMO it's worth it. 

Knots make rescue (even) more complicated, but failing to hold the fall makes rescue really challenging!

Once you've held a fall, you can immediately call the rescue helicopter. If you're in the Western Alps the chances are another team will be along soon to help out (better hope they know what they're doing)

In my experience it's not always the leader who falls in the crevasse. Carrying coils makes it easier to escape the system so both people should have some spare rope. 

In reality it's rare to fall in a crevasse. Start early, finish early, beware fresh snow and wind-drifted snow, etc.

very much agree with Graham.  My wife carries a whistle round her neck when we are together on glaciers.  In the alps it's very likely you can summon help and that makes the whole thing much easier.  

https://www.alpinesavvy.com/blog/dealing-with-brake-knots-in-crevasse-rescu...

this guy's website is an excellent resource and has a good article about untying brake knots while hauling, it's not much extra to learn and pretty straightforward if you practice it a few times.

As others have said, holding the fall is priority 1 and the hauling can be beyond awful in reality. If you are in a popular there would hopefully be others in the vicinity to give you a hand, but tbh if the person isn't injured they should be able to rescue themselves (assuming you have successfully accomplished Priority 1). If they ARE injured you will be calling mountain rescue anyway, and they will have a mechanical crevasse rescue winch

If you're using a 50m rope, you each coil a third and have the last third between you, you'll have 15m each. If you put knots in the rope you'll be less than 15m apart, say 10m. If one goes in the other should still have enough spare rope to haul the other person out.

I did once practice hauling someone out of a crevasse on my own, curtsey of the Italian army. It ain't easy, still not sure whether I could have done it for real. 

I think the minimum distance between the two climbers should be 20m or 12 double arms spans. 
 

Those big Ensa knots use a little less than a double arms span of rope to tie. I like to tie 4 of them. I put tie the first and last one 3 spans away from the climber, and do 2 spans between the other knots, then another 3 spans to the second climber. This is because if a knot goes into a crevasse it can make rescue tricky. 

If you’ve only got one rope in the team I would split the remaining rope equally. 

If you have a second rope I’d give all spare rope to one climber, and have the other carry the spare rope. 
 

Remember to keep the rope snug, the more slack in the system the further you will go in hole, and the greet the shock load to the climber on the surface. 

I think 10 metres is far too close together for a team of two travelling on a glacier. It doesn’t allow for much margin for error. 

I think 20m is often a bit far on most glaciers in the alps.  you aren't an old man like me - we dont hear very well and communication can be difficult in non perfect weather 20m apart.  Communication seems like one of the things that keeps you safe.

reminds me of the surgical joke "How long do you want your knots cut today sir?  Too long or too short?"

- Do you know how long a glacier rope should be?

- No, I'm a frayed knot. 

stick to guiding