UKC

Hi 

What are people's views on The Edelrid GigaJul?

It can do a lot of stuff and people do rate it highly.

https://youtu.be/wsNPUZNWruk?si=IcCyfykwdUSQMQLb

IMO, from what I've seen in videos, it seems to be a good device and I think it is jack of all functions.

Sav

In regards to the Mammut Smart 2.0 I have only very little experience using it and have mainly used it for toprope belaying.

When I did use it, I found the set up to be as easy as an ATC style device and The Click Up +. The lowering technique is very straight forward.

Sav

For simple belaying not as easy or a smart, nor ATC pilot.  The abseil was a bit jerky, but it was a big abseil and maybe my technque could be better.

What do you use it now, want to do?

Have it, use it, like it. It's excellent as something to have on your harness that does everything. Maybe not the best at any one thing; Not as smooth as some, not as intuitive as some or even most. That said, use it, get used to it and it's fine.

My one quibble is abbing with the locking mode. It's a bit finicky with fat ropes.  You do get used to it though (and don't buy fat ropes )

Sigh. Not this again ...

Just find one belay device that works well enough for you - and then go climbing. The gear isn't the objective: it's just a necessary means to an end.

Hi.

I use BD ATC for lead belaying indoors and for toprope belaying indoors I use a  Petzl GriGri 2019  and the ATC. 

I am a Mountain Training course candidate and I would like to climb more outside.

Than you for your opinion.

Savvas

Thank you for your opinion.

As a Mountain Training course candidate I need information and opinions on different equipment - I have been called a gear freak 😆.

Savvas

Okay, no worries. Enjoy it - but please don't lose sight of what the activity is all about. And, definitely, don't get obsessed with the gadgetry.

Good luck with it all. 

Thank you, will do. I will not loose sight. Going bouldering with a bit of Staffs legend sometime soon. I know, right. I have bought some slings and basic prussic cord. 

Thank you very much.

Savvas

If you are doing direct belaying, it is the only device with you and you either lost it or it got broke, would The Italian Hitch be your only option?

I usually climb on double ropes anyway. 😀

My double ropes are no use for MT awards as they are older than 10 years old.

Thank you for your opinion and your knowledge of your usage.

Savvas

Breaking it isn't even slightly likely imo - it's made out of steel. I've had mine used pretty intensively for about 4 years and it shows little to no sign of wear or damage beyond paint dings. Dropping it is a different thing. I've only dropped my plate once but that was halfway up a 4 pitch route and it was a right PITA. I ended up with two munters on two individual 'biners and I never want to have to repeat the debacle. Ever. 

That said, how many people carry a spare? I never have and I don't I know anyone who does. It'd be same palaver regardless of Gigajul or something else.

The GigaJul also has alumunium and plastic parts. Could one of the functions break or go wrong?

I have one and use it for everything in brake-assist mode, trad, sport, great for abseiling on 2 ropes on long retrievable abseils etc. I don't think there's an alternative belay devices I'd be interested in using over it as a 1 stop-shop.

Hi 

Yes, the GigaJul is one stop-shop. I know of a certain North Wales MCI who has one and has said it is his favourite belay device because it does everything.

Thank you for your opinion and your user/owner feedback.

Sav

Here, :as it is made out of steel, are refering to the Smart 2.0? Did you use the Smart or a GigaJul on the 4 Pitch route? Some clarification would be great.

A lot of people do carry more than one belay device with them.

Thank you for your opinion and user/owner feedback.

Savvas

No serious climber does that.

(Obviously, in extremis, we all know how to use things like Italian hitches, karabiner brakes, etc. etc )

Apologies in advance for probably sending you down another gear rabbit hole... some research has shown that the megajul is not actually very effective at holding big falls. I'm not sure if this applies to the gigajul or not. 

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/112357901/the-deadly-atc

You're probably better off spending the money on petrol/train tickets to go climbing rather than buying another belay device!

I usually always have an atc on me if I'm out with a grigri. Gives you lots of options and weighs nothing on top of the grigri.

Really?! What about instructors, coaches and guides?

I carry a GriGri and a BD ATC and yes I know an Italian Hitch is used for direct belays and I know what a karabiner break is.

Savvas

Okay - you win.

Enjoy your climbing.

I saw the discussion but I can't see any mention of the megajul. 

I do have plans but this was more of an information and opinion post - at present I am happy with my two devices.

Thank you 

Sav

I can't remember what plate I was using when I dropped it. Probably a Reverso but couldn't say for sure and it wouldn't matter anyways - it'd  always be a PITA . Trust me, the GJ is bulletproof and I have no doubt it'll outlast my climbing career unless I lose it. 

If I was doing something really large, like alpine 10 pitch large, where retreat would be difficult; I would consider talking a spare plate between 2. That's about the only time I think it would be strictly necessary. Smaller stuff I think you can cobble as the time constraints aren't as tight and the risks aren't as pronounced. 

I had something similar - a DMM Pivot - but I lost sadly I lost it. 😞 In regards to the GJ, I have heard similar from JB - it is his fave belay device!

One time at White Spider Climbing, during warm up, I was talking to someone who climbed in the Alps and she said when she climbed there they used The Italian Hitch because they needed to move fast. 

I think it is part of CWI  bell ringing because some   move onto the RCI - where it is part of the assessment in the form of direct belaying.

https://youtu.be/diSUQhsq6JA?si=ebKvBdfymedjU8Gm

Thank you for again.

Sav

Thank you.

Sav

Errr, I’m pretty boring but not boring enough to have a “fave belay device”.

Trust me, your videos are far from boring. 👍🏻

KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid 

ABC - Anchor Belayer Climber.

Sav

  The question you should ask yourself is 'what is wrong with your current GriGri / ATC options?' You can abseil on both. You can belay a leader on a single rope on both. You can belay a leader on half or twin ropes on the ATC.  The only thing the ATC lacks is 'assisted belaying'.  If you're hell-bent on having assisted belaying functionality on half/twin ropes then, yes, you need to go for the GigaJul or AlpineUp.  AlpineUp has the advantage of belaying in the same way as your ATC, whereas the GigaJul needs you to use the thumb loop.  The AlpineUp has the disadvantage of using a hardened krab (included in the price) which is a bit small - you can't clip it directly into a mega-knot belay.

Tbh, other than paying out loads of slack with a GriGri, I am.fine with my options but I was advised to get a Smart 2.0 for sport lead belaying. 

Thank you for the comparison of the devices.

Sav

You listen to too much advice, I've never, ever seen a sport climber belay with a Smart 2.

I don't think I do. I've seen indoor people belay with it indoors when belaying people who are lead climbing.

Twin Ropes and Half Ropes are different things - Half aka double ropes you clip them into alternate protection but twin ropes you clip both into the same protection.

In the photo of me Simul leading, I am using double/half ropes.

https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/rock_talk/union_rock_and_bus_stop_quarry_...

Sav

I know, but from a belay device perspective the two methods have the same requirements - a double slot device.

Yes. That is correct.✅ When I tried to second Bilberry Crack, I had two belayers -  Steve C and Nick.

With a big karabiner can you double rope belay with two Italian Hitces?

Sav

I sometimes carry a "get out of gaol free" bag on my harness.  Depends on where (and what)  I'm climbing.  The bag contains:

1) two Ropman mini ascenders (v2) and some pre-figured 6mm tat.  Enough to make a mini SRT kit - much better than prussics.

2)  my retired ATC-XP.  The grooves are well worn but it'll do nicely in an emergency.

What would you carry on a sea cliff such as Gogarth and A Dream of White Horses? 

What would carry on a single pitch crag such as Curbar and The Peapod?

Nice! I have two pressiks made from cheap cord I bought from V12.

I only have my original ATC but I had Pivot but I lost it.

Sav 

The "get out of gaol' kit gets carried on sea cliffs and big multi-pitch climbs.  Not worth carrying it on one or two pitch routes inland (i.e. most of the time).  I've only had to use it a couple of times in twenty  years.

Like The Moon (E3 5c) mentioned by another climber for me not to do in a previous thread.

Some routes at Hen Cloud are more than two pitch including the bold B4, XS (E7 6b) - as you have to climb Central Climb to get to the arete.

Would an MCI or above carry such a kit?

Sav

Hi Sav,

I think you might be looking for black & white answers where few exist.

Sure, if you're doing a big route then it would just be good sense to have a means of ascending the rope in case you had to. Whether that is just a couple prussiks, or a homemade 'mini SRT kit' like Dave, or even a couple of full-on jumars, or another means, is entirely dependent on the situation (the route, the climbers' experience, their chances of falling off, the consequences, weight vs benefit, etc) and would change depending on where you were and what you were doing. In the same way that there is no 'perfect' belay device for every situation, what you carry on the back of your harness for emergencies will vary - just choose what seems appropriate for the situation you've got in mind. 90% of the time I just carry a couple of prussiks, but if you were seconding a mate on something you genuinely might have to jug up afterwards then you would take something beefier (a la that great video clip of Chris Bonington on Footless Crow which was re-shared on here recently), or in winter I often add a Tibloc too. And then of course, thinking wider than ascent devices, you might choose to also take other stuff like tat, a small knife, a mini headtorch, etc - all depends on what you're up to and the choices you & your partner make beforehand on what to carry.

It's got little to do with qualifications by the way (and I say that as an MCI) other than you would err on the side of belt & braces in a work environment.

In short, there is no 'one size fits all' for either belay devices or emergency stuff but that's part of the beauty of climbing/mountaineering in my opinion - there are better and worse ways of doing things but few rigid rules.

Enjoy your climbing and remember that, as abcdefg said, the kit is just a means to an end. If you're comfortable with your Grigri and ATC, I'd just stick with those.

I hope that's helpful rather than opening a can of worms  

I think it's considered risky because if half roping for example in a leader fall the rope from the highest protection point could run against the other stationary Italian hitch and melt through it. 

It would be better to use separate krabs for each rope. Probably very difficult rope handling unless experienced with it. I even find paying out with a single rope slow compared to an ATC but then I've rarely used it myself.

If using as twin ropes I believe it's OK to treat both ropes as one including tying the Italian hitch.

Hi Mike.

Than you for all the information and does help. I should have stated at the beginning of the thread that I am a MT scheme candidate and the purpose the thread was to gather and opinion.

Myself I only have two prussiks and two slings - one 240cm by 8mm and one 120cm by 16mm at present. I have done trips planned at present. 😀

Sav

On a similar question, how would you categorise the GigaJul?....

.... Or, like the Wild Country Revo, is it in category to it's self?

Sav 

If I could give a tip with the best intentions…

A lot of us instructor types are a touch on the geeky side when it comes to kit and technical stuff but that’s such a very small part of what makes a quality instructor / guide / coach.

For me the most important thing is a passion for going climbing and being a super active climber (and mountaineer for some qualifications). Paying customers see this passion.

Go climbing, log a ton of routes all over the place and then worry about the nuances of assisted braking devices later.

Thanks for the tips.

Just like myself.

I agree and I blog about my climbing.

I do have some plans but I did read through the RCI candidate handbook and it mentions knowledge on equipment including advantages and disadvantages - I believe knowledge of belay devices including advantages and disadvantages is included in CWDI.

Keep up the great videos. 👍🏻

Sav

What exactly do you want to know? Anyone who uses one will say it's great, those who had one and junked it will say it's junk or not bother to say anything and users of other devices will be completely indifferent. I tested all the previous Jul generations and they were poor performers and couldn't be bothered to test the GigaJul since it clearly brought nothing new to the table.

It has nothing to do with the Revo, that's a different ballgame.

Is it all that basically and the pros and cons.

Too right. What I know is that the Revo is an inertia based assisted breaking device. I think the GigaJul can be categorised is a' do-it-all' device.

Sav

Q for you.

What do you think of the Blue Ice Choucas Pro harness? It supposed to be a light weight all rounder.

Sav

Too right.

I only have a BD ATC, for direct belaying would a redirect be a good idea?

Totally.

Sav