UKC

I've wanted to get into alpine climbing for a while now but I don't know where to start. I've climbed Snowdon via the Crib Goch rote with some friends in the summer and found it fairly easy and I've been rock climbing now for about a year reaching v6 level and lead 6B. Should I go to courses or just figure it out on my own ? I also live in a very flat area in Kent what doesn't help. Any suggestions will help thanks.

In reply to Jarvi5:

If you want to get up into the high alpine world of glaciers and snow, you'll need to develop some winter skills first, with ice axe(s) and crampons.  If you're under 30, the Jonathan Conville Memorial Trust https://www.jcmt.org.uk/courses might be the place to go - they have subsidised winter skills and alpine prep courses. Once you have got out the the alps and done a few routes, you can join the Alpine Club as an aspirant member - they have a great aspirants meet in Sass Fee every summer which includes some training from British mountain guides.

Robert

In reply to Jarvi5:

Join a club that undertakes alpine meets (most) and pair with an experienced partner. You’ll quickly learn and adapt to the most suitable routes dependant on your ability. If you hire a guide you’ll be very efficiently led up an appropriate route but not necessarily learn much, as that’s not really their brief, they guide not teach.

In reply to jonesieboy:

Thanks that's helpful, I'm 19 so I will look into it.

In reply to Philb1950:

Thank you, do you think it's better to go guided or unguided.

I went on a club meet for my first alpine trip which managed to coincide exactly with 3 weeks bad weather so got the bug but not much done. Tbh I learnt as much from talking to the clubs accomplished alpinists on pub nights and meets in the UK.

Regarding guides, I am sure that it could be arranged to have  instruction more than dragging up a route. Discuss what you want first.

Not been mentioned yet but living in Kent its probably easier to get to the Alps than Scotland.

In reply to Jarvi5:

Depends what you want. For me a large part of the enjoyment is being self sufficient and making decisions and being guided would remove that.

In reply to Jarvi5:

My cousin went on the jcmt course in Chamonix last year when he was 19. Absolutely loved it. Full week of smashing around getting taught loads and includes 2 big days out.

Book ok, you won't regret it!

In reply to Jarvi5:

My advice is go on a course such as JCMT (I'm sure Austrian alpine club does these sorts of courses too?) and also join your local club to meet some keen alpinists. They'll feel happier that you've been taught the basics by qualified guides and they'll also be keen for a psyched climbing partner.

Disagree with the guides "guide" statement above, I know loads BMG's and when asked to do a skills day they are fantastic. (MCIs have the capacity to teach you some of the skills too just not in the Alps)

That's what I did anyways, originally from South Wales which is hardly the Mecca for mountaineers.

Hope that helps, I've been in your position about 8/9 years ago but now I'm sat responding to you in Alps hahahha

Aled

In reply to Jarvi5:

It seems like you boulder more than you lead, and not much on rock? And no trad? Get leading multipitch trad climbing around the UK and then some winter climbing in Scotland. Then either find a more experienced alpine partner, go out on a course or get led up some routes.

In reply to Jarvi5:

Loads of good advice here. Only addition is to say, the UK is a great place to start building the skills and fitness: trad, scrambling, winter skills, nav, layering, planning, camping, etc. Find some equally keen partners and great cracking. Wish I could have done a Conville course, but I got into the game a bit late. Learnt a lot from reading, practice and partners, though.

In reply to Jarvi5:

As an inexperienced teenager with no idea, with a friend we went to Chamonix and did precisely nothing, so I gave up on a potential alpine career. Five years later returning with an experienced partner we did three of the six north faces in a month including the Eiger as a first mixed route. Back then very few went on a course or were guided as it was simply unaffordable, so for me it was the club route, albeit in my case a caving club! I can’t think of any leading UK mountaineers who progressed from a course or guiding, although some subsequently became guides. So the choice is yours. The Atcteryx academy seems like a fast track learning curve though. Stick with it and good luck, as climbing big mountain routes has given me the best experiences in my life.

In reply to C Rettiw:

The Alps is good training for the Cuillins! 

In reply to Jarvi5:

I'd have a winter in Scotland first, the alps is a long way to go and not a cheap place to learn how to put crampons on. Plus not everyone like winter climbing test the water in the uk when conditions are reasonable. 

In reply to ExiledScot:

Much as I love Scotland, it depends where you live, distance from somewhere like London to the Alps & Scotland is similar & the weather is usually better in the Alps (although a wet week is possible in both).

In reply to ExiledScot:

From Kent there’s about 50 miles difference between driving to Chamonix and driving to Glen Coe.  Plus to Alps is faster on autoroutes for the most part.

Edited to add if you use the high speed trains you can get to Geneva in 6 hours from Kent in summer.

In reply to Brass Nipples:

And it rains less in the alps.  You don't need Scottish winter experience to climb in the alps but you'll need to learn to use crampons safely somewhere

In reply to Jarvi5:

Do a Conville course - 

Train - running, body weigh stuff, weights.

Read - mark twight, bonnatti, h. harrar etc, Kirkpatrick maybe for techniques 

Hire a guide??  if you can afford  it great - do as many routes as quick as you can, the techniques are fairly straightforward and you will have plenty time to learn on route but experience is hard to get, a guide can fast track that, you can do a lot of the learning at sea level.

HTH 

In reply to Jarvi5:

Learning to trad climb would be good.  Depending on your Alpine route, trad style ropework and 'head' is often needed.

In reply to Aled Williams:

Hello Aled, thanks for the advice. Where can I find these clubs near me, should I just search it up online. Very cool how you are in the Alps by the way, are you a guide there or just visiting?

In reply to C Rettiw:

Thanks a lot for the advice, where do you think is the best ways to find partners?, I have some friends that I climb with but I think the expenses of all the gear and traveling is a bit of a put off.

In reply to John Kelly:

Thanks for the advice I'll definitely try and do a Conville course.

In reply to Jarvi5:

I’ve just done a Conville course last month and highly recommend it for building confidence and skills. I didn’t have any prior Scottish winter experience and managed fine, walking in crampons isn’t hard to learn and they teach you on the course. With the way the weather was this year anyway crampons weren’t necessary for a lot of rock route approaches anyway. If you have prior trad experience it didn’t feel much of a step up, at least for the easy stuff I did which was still plenty exciting. 

In reply to Philb1950:

Hi, I was wondering what did you do in does 5 years that you were more prepared for the Alps, was it the experienced partner or did you do some extra training and research in that time? I'll look into the Arcteryx academy. 

In reply to Brass Nipples:

Nothing wrong with a bit Matterhorn madness (weekend summit tick, uk to uk), but it's quite hard to capitalise on a weekend in Jan if conditions are decent, they are trying to learn winter skills, not create some Top Gear episode.

In reply to ExiledScot:

Did that, the altitude was an issue 😳 

In reply to John Kelly:

Same here, we had been to the alps for 3 weeks less than a month prior but it felt as though we'd lost it. It's why if I was seizing the moment for winter skills I'd go north for a weekend hit, not booking, ferries, flights etc.. just the A9 to contend with. Or if conditions are great an hour north of Glasgow gives plenty options too, less frequent Lakes and N Wales. 

In reply to Jarvi5:

It takes time to develop good friendships with people you like enjoy climbing with, but, as others have said, clubs and the Conville course would help you meet people. If you're going to uni, join the mountaineering club there. Don't rush! And develop your skills in the UK in the meanwhile.

In reply to Jarvi5:

This is probably not helpful and just nostalgia but there used to be a very cut price campsite in Chamonix called Pierre d'Orthaz. It was full of keen Alpine climbers. You could just turn up there and people would be looking for someone to climb with. Much like Camp4 in Yosemite was at that time too (perhaps still is?).

People on this thread are saying the Alps is an expensive place to be but my recollection is of thinking we were the profligate climbers by getting basic supermarket ingredients for food. The Polish climbers there seemed to have made extreme frugality an art form. 

It is great that there are courses to help you be safer. Alpine climbing is really dangerous. Have fun but take every care.

In reply to MG:

I think there’s a lot to be said for doing one or two routes in the company of an experienced alpinist or a guide first.

In reply to Jarvi5:

There's a lot of confusing advice here. 

Definitely look into Conville courses. 

Also look for clubs which do some climbing, mountaineering, winter skills etc, because it will help you to find ongoing partners so you practise stuff you learn after your course - and just get out climbing in the UK in the meantime, which is all good experience. Try searching here or ask at your local climbing wall. I don't know climbing clubs in Kent but there are definitely loads in London. https://services.thebmc.co.uk/climbing-wall-finder#clubs

And even if you don't go to the Alps proper there is plenty you can learn in the UK, especially north Wales - in fact I believe the Conville courses include that. 

And if you're female, the Women's Alpine Adventure Club do great stuff (in high demand so books up a way in advance) too. 

Enjoy.

In reply to ExiledScot:

Point is, it is just as quick to get to the Alps. No one suggested just for a weekend but you.  

In reply to Jarvi5:

No, disillusioned I went back to caving until I joined the Eldon Pothole Club, whose membership and associates also included several experienced climbers, one of whom Bob Dearman persuaded me to go to the Alps again and it opened a whole new chapter in my life.

In reply to Jarvi5:

Something I don't see mentioned very often - the French organisation UCPA run a variety of courses in Alpine areas, they're subsidised by the French government so really good value - and you don't have to be French, French speaking or even particularly young to go on them! Both my youngest have been on several courses with them, Sam is going next week for another week's Alpine training - glacier travel, crevasse rescue, moving together, abseiling etc - he's paid about £500 for full board and accommodation, uplift, equipment hire and training by qualified guides.

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

I went on an UCPA skiing week, very good value for money although I had to get the OK of the centre's director as I wasn't 'young' (think I was close to 50 at the time). Talking to some of the ski instructors it seemed that  they give preference to the young when its busy but like to fill the courses with the 'elderly' during quiet periods

In reply to Jarvi5: i just spent a lot of time trad climbing, and if it was raining , doing a lot of scrambling, hiking with a sack on.  You need to be fit and able to truck on on rock pretty well.  

A Conville course would be helpful.  You could go to Chamonix, climb long rock routes for a few weeks and not toch snow and ice( but have a lot of fun), but being able to move on a glacier safely really open up a new world. 

I didn't do much in Scotland  efore i went because the weather when I went north was usually rubbish. Its lower risk on time and trips to just get to the alps. 

In reply to Jarvi5:

I got into it through the Arcteryx academy. I had a fairly good experience with British trad and general scrambling. I would highly recommend being proficient at placing gear even if your aspirations are mainly for the ridgelines in the alpine.

The Academy was fairly discounted that year due to Covid, but I was able to get three days with guides learning how to walk around on a glacier, moving up to the Midi then climbing a pretty easy ridge with a guide and getting to lead shorter sections. 

With a decent bit of experience placing gear and leading trad it never felt too overwhelming and I was able to take in a lot of information and focus more on learning to move safely in the mountains. The following year I was able to return and climb a lot of the classics with a partner, and then graduated onto climbing the bigger routes the following year.

I'm a fairly cautious climber, and taking it in smaller steps felt like a good way to move into alpinism without having too many epics or putting myself in situations where I was out of my depth.

Sadly I was too old for the Conville course, but I do know a lot of people who did it last summer then spent the rest of the summer having a riot in Chamonix and the surrounding areas.