UKC

I just want to start out by saying i have no need or plans specifically to do this, just curious more than anything.

I've been doing a lot more LRS this year and 99% of crags i can make a trad anchor or they have tree at the bottom to use for an anchor point, a few have already got bolts on or very close to the ground which is amazing. Anyway im wondering what the general rules are around adding a couple of bolts at the base of an already bolted route for this use, it would make LRS easier and potentially safer.

Again this is mostly just because i'm curious. Would be useful to know and possibly do in the future but i wouldn't want to piss people off or anything.

I've wondered this myself and would also be interested to hear people's thoughts.

A few more bolts on a developed sport crag would not seem to be too crazy and installing ground level bolts wouldn't seem to "detract from the nature of the route" as it wouldn't affect protection (or lack of) on the route proper.

Surely fair game at a bolted crag (not a trad crag obviously). Light belayers may appreciate it also.

Thats my thinking, i can understand people getting grumpy if i were to add bolts all the way up the wall of a trad route but adding 2 ground anchors should affect anyone so think it should be fair game

Didn't think about light belayers but yea would deffo help with that too, and thats my thinking to i don't LRS trad routes, LRS is awkward enough without also having to place gear so i only climb bolted routes anyway.

It's not uncommon for people to place some discrete bolts for this purpose but they will often remove the hangers after use to prevent theft.

I'm coming from a very Peak-centric view here, and all opinions are my own and not that of the bolt fund but -

Ground level bolts may not "detract from the nature of the route" from a climbing perspective, but would be a visual eye sore, especially in locations with twitchy land owners and close to footpaths. Even at sport crags, I think bolts should be used sparingly and not placed willy-nilly at ground level for the very rare occasion that someone wants to solo-lead, hang a fingerboard or tie their dog up. I'd also be concerned that expansion bolts that are accessible from the ground are likely to have the hanger nicked, and using glue ins isn't a good use of bolt fund resources. 

I suppose it would better than using the bottom two bolts of the route which often spins and loosens the hangers. TRSing just seems more sensibly to me but each to there own.

I TRS wherever i can but a lot of taller routes around me just dont have top access which means i either have to wait for a mate who can belay to be free at the same time as me to go or LRS. normally i prefer using trees and a 2ft thick live tree is more than strong enough to support a fall and gives more rope to stretch in the event of a fall compared to using an anchor on the first/second bolt 

I guess the eye sore makes sense in some stricter areas, i 100% understand why the bolt fund doesn't do it as it is a very useless bolt to 99% of climbers.

I have used a builders dumpy bag filled with rocks for an anchor . Rated to 1 tonne safe lifting load , probably 50kn breaking. Does not take long to collect 100kg of rocks, equivalent to a heavy  belayer.

You could clipstick your way up to the anchors for TRS?

Like moving rocks to create 'cairns' or Insta scupltures, moving rocks to create a deadweight risks disturbing fragile ecosystems.

Maybe, but seems a pretty good option if the crag is, say, above a scree slope.

I like the dumpy bag idea, that is very inventive. Fair play too for the comments about visual aspect. I can understand that in certain situations.

How about drilled threads? Either through a flake or Ablakov style?

https://overtheedgerescue.com/canyoning/rock-thread-vthread-testing-2021/

This link has some photos as pull-test results from drilled threads with different types of cordage and all looks strong enough. You can de-rig your threads once you are finished and visually it would seem unlikely that a discretely drilled set of holes would be noticed by too many people.

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Not that original. Used by Bonatti on the FA of his pillar. 1955.

If you are drilling discrete holes there is also the option of removeable anchors such as Petzl Pulse or ones by Climbtech.

Or indeed repairing a fallen down wall.  I'm surprised I can sleep at night, all the damage I've done over the years.......

One way around is to drill a 12mm hole (virtually invisible at foot level) and use a Petzl removable bolt as a ground anchor. 
https://m.petzl.com/INT/en/Professional/Anchors/COEUR-PULSE-12-mm

Hi Rick

See you made the same suggestion. Wasn’t aware of the Climbtech solution but looks like they are three times the price of a Petzl removable bolt. The builders bag solution is ingenious. 

If the only reason to LRS (rather than TRS) is access to the top anchor, have you considered stick-clipping up the route (eg just relying on the bolt ahead of you, using a jumar to get up) to set it up before TRS?

On a few occasions, I've put the quickdraws all the way up routes before redpoint attempts in that manner, either because we were climbing as a three, or I'd got to the crag early or even just to conserve skin on a route with ratty holds.

Sorry if I've totally misunderstood your scenario.

I think if you shop around, the smaller Climbtech can be got for a similar price to the Pulse but probably no point for a climbers solution.

The builders bag idea came from being a skip rat on building sites and general cheapskate. Every trade or sportperson tends to reuse or fix things with whatever they have available.

I have now bought two mini dumpy bags rated to half ton for a few quid each. About 500 mm cubed.

Only issue is the petzl temporary bolt is only meant for rappelling, its probably more than strong enough but they say not to use it for lead climbing and solo lead is sketchy enough even with a solid anchor, so using an anchor that says not to use for lead climbing seems even sketchier 

i do stick clip up if the bottom of a route is very tricky and i dont wanna risk bottoming out or having a hard catch but i like LRS so even tho its doable and potentially safer to stick clip up and top rope, sometimes i still prefer to just LRS it.

I recall HowNot2 has tested the Petzl removables in his YouTube channel (and supporting material).

if the rock is good, they are fine.

but for LRS. A hole for them is very discreate. And then simply add the first bolt to be part of the anchor (as or rather as backup, by tying a glovehitch on the QD).

Agreed.

I think the OP must be confusing the 8mm and 12 mm versions of the Pulse. The 12mm looks plenty strong enough for a full strength anchor, backed up as you suggest.