UKC

Hi all,

I'm very new and perhaps have a silly question:

I have been researching belay devices until I am sick to death of it and don't have any better direction than before I started. All my watching and reading reviews about assisted braking devices of various types ends with the same conclusions:

1) No guarantee they offer anything if you aren't holding the brake side of the rope.
2) You musty remain attentive.
3) They sometimes require learning a slightly different technique for their individual nuances.
4) They are heavier and bulkier than a tube.
5) Typically can't handle 2 ropes (save for the Alpine Up).
6) More working parts mean more potential for issues, i.e. Neox wheel bearing seizing, ice etc.
7) If anything, give you more things to think about, not less.
8) More expensive.
9) Often less versatile than a tube.
10) Mean you have to run around more because otherwise might give a hard catch.

What am I missing? Assuming I'm not doing any type of rope soloing, what do they really offer? I'm not even convinced there is an additional safety factor.

I'm a minimalist by nature and so far what makes sense to me (without having any actual experience) is having one piece of equipment I know extremely well, which is light and can be used for any style of climbing, with the same technique, so don't have to fight against 'muscle memory'. 

I accept that being a newbie there may be things I haven't even considered yet so happy to be educated. I'm just having a mental block pulling the trigger on buying anything.

Sam

In reply to Lord Shmuel:

If you're looking for your first device, you're right: a do-it-all tube sounds great. If you're trad climbing multipitch, or have aspirations to, you might pick up one with a guide mode option too, e.g. Pivot, Reverso, ATC guide.

The advantage of the classic assisted-braking belay device, the Grigri, is when it comes to sport climbing. It has a really great cam and this makes it easy to catch lots of big falls and easy to hold someone in position when dogging a route (hanging lots from the rope). This is especially valuable when belaying heavier partners. It does have weaknesses, but these are outweighed by the strengths in this context. It's not usually used for trad or winter climbing in the UK, for lots of reasons that I won't go into.

There is now a really large market of AB devices and each one is subtly or significantly different. They have various strengths that people like, as well as weaknesses or weirdnesses that people dislike. 

Personally, I only used a tube device for about the first 5 year of climbing (all disciplines) and hated AB devices because I struggled to feed out rope. After about 5 years, I became curious again about AB devices and learnt to love the Grigri, but I still use a tube device for about 70% of my climbing (outdoor trad). I feel this is reasonably typical within the UK, though in Europe or the US you would get a different account.

I hope that helps.

In reply to Lord Shmuel

With a non-assisted device you’re entirely relying on your own reflex and consistency in holding the dead rope, whereas a GriGri (or similar) you’ve got your own skills and a 99% chance of it auto locking in normal situations.

I don’t use them all the time, but where possible I’ll take that 99%. Even the best belayer in the world isn’t going to be that safe if you accidentally drop a rock on their head. 

Aside from that they’re also much more comfortable as a belayer when someone is working routes and either falling a lot or hanging on the rope.

In reply to Lord Shmuel:

Grigri is an amazing bit of kit for sport climbing where falls can be unexpected and happen often, and where crags are often busy with a lot of distractions around the belayer. Its not hands free or automatic and should never be treated as such but it is pretty damn reliable. When you are falling off on lead regularly it only takes one case of getting dropped by a distracted belayer to disable you for life or worse. I will let a lot of people belay me on sport climbs with a grigri but with a tube i only really trust a small number of partners.

Theres a reason am expensive device with the disadvantages you list is still almost ubiquitous at sport crags whilst no single other piece of gear is. 

In reply to C Rettiw:

I currently have a Reverso as I was thinking along the same lines.

Actually, that's a good point I hadn't considered. Because the locking mechanism is taking the strain you only need to apply enough force to keep it engaged or just cover the brake side in case it opens up unexpectedly.

I was thinking of either serving my apprenticeship on a tube until I found a specific need for an assisted device or finding an assisted device that can be operated in the same manner without alternative technique. I was drawn towards the Click Up or Pinch for this reason, although some people say you do still need to support and press the cam on the pinch to give slack.

In reply to Indignancy:

I may have been unfair when I said "no guarantee it will do anything" implying it was a 50/50. That may be true if you are not holding the rope at all but actually if you are holding the brake side at the correct angle it should lock most of the time.

I'm still not convinced by the incapacitated belayer scenario but I guess you have more chance of winning at the roulette table if you actually make a bid.

This is probably the most useful and frequent scenario I had overlooked.

Thanks

In reply to Blackmud:

The Grigri is an odd one for me because on the one hand I don't like that it seems to require specific knowledge, on the other hand it is so well known I could probably hand it to (almost) anyone and they'd know how to use it safely, and so readily available I could borrow one if needed to. I guess market saturation has solved the specificity issue.

In reply to Lord Shmuel:

You don't have to apply any force: once locked up with the climber's weight it will stay that way. Just let your body be a counterweight via the harness and keep the brake strand in your hand as a backup.

In reply to bpmclimb:

That seems look good reason enough.

Thanks all, sometimes I just need to talk these things through as I've realised as I get older, I'm frequently wrong or might be missing something.

In reply to Lord Shmuel:

An assisted device like a GriGri *will* in all but the most bizarre circumstances that I’m not sure has ever happened, reliably catch a fall even if the belayer completely lets go of the rope. 

I wouldn’t confuse the very sensible advice to *never* let go of the brake strand, as meaning it wouldn’t catch perfectly well even if you did.

Accidents with GriGris are down to people using them wrong and defeating the safety mechanism by holding the cam shut or panic pulling the lever while lowering.

In reply to Lord Shmuel:

You could get a Gigajul - which is an assisted braking device from Edelrid and is a normal 'tube' device that handles two ropes- you can use as manual or Assisted - your choice. I have one and its great, I really rate it for most things but I'll still use a Grigri for sport climbing and indoor.

Cheers

S

In reply to C Rettiw:

This, but note that in other countries the culture is often different and assisted devices are more common - I've had a new partner in Canada refuse to let me belay them trad cragging without an assisted device. This seems to be seeping over here - went to an event at a wall in Manchester and on arrival they suddenly said you had to use one too (rather frustrating if not familiar with them). If you're looking at North American videos on this stuff you're no doubt getting different messages. But ultimately this is a large part personal preference. 

Holding a much heavier climber dogging with an ATC is possible but tiring and I can see how an assisted device might well be more pleasant. 

Whatever you use, learn to use it well. Definitely recommend knowing how to belay well with an ATC/Reverso et al but if you move to an assisted device, make sure you get good practise and feedback on that too; bad belaying on those, in my experience, tends to involve rope being paid out too slowly or falling further than needed. You need to be just as responsive, if not more. 

In reply to midgen:

While I would agree with you 99%+ of the time, there have been occasions when a grigri has not locked up when no force at all is applied to the dead end of the rope. I believe this could only happen with a notably thin rope and probably also one that's new and shiny. It certainly has happened to me a long time ago with the Mk1 grigri - thankfully I did actually have the rope loosely in my hand but it didn't actually lock until I'd realised it was whipping right through my hand and I was able to grab onto it enough for the grigri to then lock up. I don't know whether this can still happen with newer versions of the device but I wouldn't be 100% sure it can't.

Grigris are brilliant belay devices but expecting them to be infallible in all circumstances is not to be advised.

In reply to Lord Shmuel:

I have only started using a Grigri relatively recently, (i.e. in the lasy 2 years after 50+ years of climbing) but it has definitely grown on me, - on sports climbs, it's just easier.

A deciding factor - on sports climbs - came earlier this year, when a friend had a nasty accident when his leader pulled a block off that hit him. Despite being pretty much incapacitated his Grigri held the fall - it was still a nasty accident but I think with a passive device could have been even worse. So much so that I am now going to get my wife to use a grigri when we go to Kalymnos next month.

In reply to Lord Shmuel:

I moved to an assisted device (AlpineUp) due to modern half ropes being thin and hard to hold, especially when at the thin end of what a device is rated for.  The bit on belay devices on Jim's page makes for interesting reading:- http://www.bolt-products.com/Glue-inBoltDesign.htm

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

This is the top answer I give when people ask why use an assisted device rather than a tube.  If your belayer gets injures, incapacitated, faints, or anything else happens that may prevent them holding the rope I'd rather take my chances with a assisted braking device catching me (which it likely will) rather than a tube device (which definitely won't).

Also if you're sport climbing and your partner is taking loads of falls, hanging on the rope to rest, working sections etc it's just less effort!

In reply to Lord Shmuel:

I have a click up, and really like the reduction in effort to catch a fall. With reasoning comparable to yours I stayed away from AB devices for years but the nice thing about the click up is that its difficult to use in such a way that makes it more dangerous than a simple tube. The belaying action, including for lowering, is identical, and if you were to load it the wrong way round it still functions.

In reply to Lord Shmuel:

"No guarantee they offer anything if you aren't holding the brake side":  A lock on your front door is no guarantee against being broken in to, but it's overwhelmingly better than not having one.

"You must remain attentive":  No argument with that one.

"require learning a slightly different technique":  Different from what? I think there are groups of devices that all use the same style as each other, which is different from other groups of devices.  It's not the case that absolutely every device requires a different style from any other device.

"They are heavier and bulkier than a tube":  I'm sceptical of this so I went to have a look.  For assited, I'm looking at ATC Pilot: 86g.  Edelrid Mega Jul:  75g.  Ocun Bow:  71g.  For unassited:  DMM pivot:  72g.  Grivel Master Pro Belayer:  88g.  So maybe you intended to qualify it with 'most' or 'some' but as it is, it's not true.

"Typcially can't handle 2 ropes":  This is probably true but there are a few more 2-rope-capable assited devices that I know of like edelrid mega jul and giga jul.

"More working parts":  Maybe in some cases. Definitely not in others.  Perhaps you're only thinking of (or focusing on) things like birdie, pinch, grigri.

"More expensive":  Often but not always.  E.g. Edelrid Mega Jul:  £22.97 vs DMM pivot: £29 on gooutdoors.

"Often less versatile than a tube":  Maybe - not sure of the numbers on either side of the equation - but so what?  There are assisted devices with more versatility than plain old tube devices, i.e. edelrid gigajul.

"you have to run around more because otherwise might give a hard catch":  Yes, it's probably easier to give soft catches with tubes if you impose the restriction of not moving/jumping.

"What am I missing?":  Hopefully the responses above gives some answers to this.

"What do they really offer?":  For me, it'd mostly be a bit more confidence that the belayer would brake if a rock fell onto their heads and knocked them out, then I take a fall.  Or if they (or I) stood a bit too far away from the wall/rock during a fall, getting yanked towards it and they instinctively put their hands up to brace for impact, letting go of the brake side.  Or if the belayer is moving around on the ground and trips, putting their hands out at the time of a fall.  Or a dog approaches the belayer and distracts/attacks them, causing them to let go of the brake side.  Or any number of such kinds of things.  Additionally, it's nice (and I'm comfortable) abseiling on a gigajul in assisted mode without having to add a backup prusik.

In reply to Indignancy:

Surely if you are holding the dead rope correctly, you aren't really relying on reflex most of the time ? the belay is locked off.

In reply to GrahamD:

Only if you are constantly holding the dead end of the rope with as much tension as you do in a fall scenario. 

In reply to S Ramsay:

I was considering a Click up or Alpine Up, particularly as Troll are having a clearance of CT gear and can get a bargain right now. I have been enticed by the Edelrid Pinch too though.

In reply to Toerag:

Do you also use it for single ropes? If so how do you find it? Is it worth just getting the Alpine Up over the Click Up to cover all uses?

In reply to Lord Shmuel:

Try one. It might not offer you anything.

My two favourite devices were a simple oldshool plate and a GriGri. Different tools for different jobs.

Jk

In reply to Fraser:

Its not the tension, its the angle that causes it to lock off.

In reply to GrahamD:

No idea why this is downvoted. I've caught plenty of falls on a non-assisted device (including a few very hard ones) and I don't think I've ever felt the need to react to arrest the fall. I've caught plenty of falls where the climber was completely out of sight where I had basically no warning anyway.

Give me a blindfold and noise cancelling headphones and I'd bet good money I'd still catch every single standard fall on any standard belay device.

I only feel the need to react to give a soft catch or to take in rope if there is a real risk of decking.

In reply to Lord Shmuel:

It's not as nice as the clickup - the moving flaps seem to have stiffer springs than the clickup and thus it seems slightly fussier with thicker singles.  However, my clickup is secondhand and my alpineup brand new, so there may be some difference there. I'll be climbing indoors again soon so will do some back to back testing. It's also bulkier and a little bit more faffy to use (putting the rope in etc., it's essentially the same but the skeletal nature of the alpineup means the rope / krab can go where they shouldn't). If you haven't got a clickup then just use the alpineup for everything, the niceness of the clickup doesn't warrant buying one if you've got the alpineup.

In reply to Lord Shmuel:

Also a newbie who has been reading this with interest, not wishing to hijack the thread.

To me it looks like for a novice the Grigri is a lot more faff with the potential to get things horribly wrong.

The Click up and Alpine up look very similar with an equally low risk of getting it wrong but I still wouldn't know which to choose.

Do they both suffer from heating when using them to rappel?

In reply to Sleepymouse: I wouldn’t disagree and, in addition to the Clickup and Alpine Up I’ve found the non moving part assisted devices eg ATC Pilot, Mammut Smart, various Edelrid devices etc. superb and so easy to use. More importantly they add an element of safety to belaying. Certainly for sport I can’t see why one would not use one of these as the minimum and, for me, in preference to a grigri type device. I’m actually sat thinking why am I not using one for trad and will make that purchase today, probably the MegaJul II.

As an aside, it never ceases to amaze me how casually or even thoughtlessly some climbers/belayers treat that job. An example, many will have seen is the gnarled old guy down the wall belaying poorly with a tube type device who gets upset and shirty if the wall staff have to speak to him. 

In reply to Sleepymouse:

Fixed it for you 😀

In reply to Sleepymouse:

Horribly wrong would be dropping the climber - that's not going to happen unless you let go of the dead rope and misuse the device.

What does take practice is paying out slack quickly and safely without letting go of the dead rope.  And a variety of dodgy techniques for doing that are by far the most common misuse of a Grigri you might see.  eg: letting go of the dead rope completely whilst using one hand to prevent the cam from engaging and the other to pull slack through.

The most infamous/egregious example of this is a supposedly professional coach negligently dropping Sara Qunaibet at a training camp last summer.  She ended up with two broken feet and a broken back and it could have been even worse.

This video by Hard is Easy is not an easy watch, but essential viewing I think.  It's thoughtful and informative, and given what a sensitive topic it is I think he gets the tone just exactly right.

youtube.com/watch?v=WBGkKqLhM8Y&

In reply to Sleepymouse:

You don't have the 'pull the lever harder in a panic' problem the grigri has with the click/alpineups.

If you want to use 2 ropes or guidemode the alpineup is the one to get. If you're just climbing indoors then the clickup makes more sense. Get the original as the Clickup+ isn't as good apparently.

a) you can put the rope in a clickup the wrong way round and be in trouble. If you do that with an alpineup it has grooves in the side to use for braking so no-one will die.

b) They get warm but not much worse than a normal device in my experience. I've only done single drops though, no multiple abs.

In reply to Lord Shmuel:

I'm not entirely convinced that your post is sincere, and not just an entertaining query to stir the pot and pass the time (fair enough!) but I'll offer some thoughts. 

1-The Grigri is an amazing device for sport climbing and crag scenarios, but some extrmely experienced climbers also use it alpine and ice climbing, because when their partners are cold, wet, wearing heavy gloves, trying to stay warm, eat, pee, drill V-threads for the descent, and so on, they would rather have a 99% chance of being caught by the automatic function of a Grigri than a much lower chance of being caught by a tube device, or any other device that requires you to always hold the brake strand.  Yes, of course, the instructions for the Grigri say to "always" hold the brake strand, and that's good practice, but sometimes belayers hold the strand loosely, get distracted, let go for a moment to do something else, and so on.  That's not advice, that's reality.  The Grigri provides a huge amount of protection in these scenarios. 

2-For almost all single pitch climbing (sport climbing, dry tooling, ice cragging) I use a Grigri.  There are only a very few people I would trust in these scenarios to belay me adequately with a non-Grigri.  For some multipitch rock and ice climbing, I use a Grigri. For the great majority of multipitch rock, alpine, and ice climbing, I use a Reverso, to efficiently belay a follower.

3-In my opinion the Grigri + with the antipanic function is the safest and most convenient belay device on the market.  If I'm climbing with beginners or children, I give them a Grigri+.  Once the rope is loaded, there's basically no way they can drop somebody.   A controversial hot take?  Perhaps. 

4-I was ice climbing once, high up a steep pitch, and my partner, who was using a tube style device, fainted.  So the "incapacitated" belayer scenario is not just a theoretical possibility.  It does happen. 

Hope that gives you some perspective. 

In reply to Toerag:

Hi Toerag. 

I think it's important to note that the Grigri+ has an anti-panic function.  If you pull the lever toward you with too much force, it just clicks and resets.  There is no way to "panic drop" a climber.  That's part of the reason I believe this is the safest device on the market.  The Wild Country Revo has a similar mechanism, but in my experience it's not as convenient for loweing or rappeling. 

In reply to GrahamD:

It's both.

I suppose in a theoretical world enough of either would do. However, given people typically don't belay with hands strong enough to not require a belay device (tension) or with a capstan (angle), we make do with a combination.

In reply to brunoschull:

But you can override the anti panic by pulling it further. Interesting the Pinch is similar and I think they call the area past the anti panic the “expert zone”.

Revo works quite differently.

Personally I don’t think there is a “safest device” all have failure modes that humans will enable.

In reply to jezb1:

That is not correct jexb1.  If the antipanic function engages, the person you are lowering will come to a complete stop, and the lever disengages and resets.  If you pull farther, you would lower the person a little bit, and then the antipanic function would just engage again.  

There is a great deal of missinformation about this.  Have you ever tried it?  

Take a Grigri+ and try to lower somebody quickly by pulling hard on the lever.  You can try and try and try but you will not be able to "drop" somebody.  It's impossible. That's the point of the device.

In reply to Blackmud:

Simply not True. Grigri or similar can be used just fine for trad or even multipitch climbs. It’s valuable on Belayed hard aid (albeit a solo device would be better). Rather handy for all sorts of rope work, like shooting video or photos… and with minute tweaks even a lead solo device. Plus really good at working highball boulders with a top-rope. And somewhat usable at working hard routes (so toprope solo).

so no, not just for sport crags or the gym.

In reply to jezb1:

I'm sorry jexb1, I'm not trying to be antagonistic, but this is simply not true, either in the case of the grigri or the edelrid. 

I explained the mechanism of the grigri above, 

With the pinch, if the anti-panic function engages, it works just like the grigri.  You can not pull the lever "past" the anti-panic zone into an "expert zone."  That is not how the device works.  What you can do is insert a pin to disable the anti-panic function entirely, but that's somehting you have to take a conscios decision to do before climbing, not somethiong that can happen while lowering. 

I do wish people would stop spreading missinformation about these devices.  They are fundamentally different from devices such as the Smart etc. 

In reply to HeMa:

Agree with your points r.e. grigri, but I don't think Blackmud said it was just for sport climbing. Just that it's great for sport climbing, they didn't comment on other kinds of climbing.

In reply to brunoschull:

From the Pinch manual (I own one):

“10c If the anti-panic function has been activated, the lever can be pulled further back in special situations and by experienced persons in order to continue the lowering process.”

Im not just making this stuff up… 

Have I used a GriGri+, yes, once or twice…

In reply to jezb1:

Thanks for the information jezb1.  I stand corrected, and I apologize for my missinterpretation of the Pinch.  

Two important points:

1-This is NOT how a Grigri+ functions.  With. Grigri+ you can not continue to pull on the handle to lower the climber. 

2-To my mind, this makes the Grigri plus significantly safer than the Pinch.  It's a BIG difference!

I wonder why they designed the Pinch this way...one complaint about the Grigri+ from experienced climbers is that it makes lowering more difficult because you have to find a sweet spot between lowering and engaging the anti-panic function.  It's never bothered me, but I've heard that from others.  Perhaps Edelrid was trying to make their device more appealing to those climbers who criticized the Grigri+ in this way.  However, it's somewhat ironic, because they added an "anti-panic" function that doesn't really act like an anti-panic function, and then added an "anti-anti panic function" as well as the option to completely block the anti-panic function by adding a pin.  Perhaps this is a case where simpler would have been better. 

In any case, the Grigri+ retains true anti-panic function.  One the anti-panic function engages, you can pull the lever all you like, and you won't lower the climber.   

In reply to brunoschull:

Are you really sure about the +..?

In reply to HeMa:

Most certainly sir, however I think you will find I did not mention any of those activities in any way. If you go and read my comment again carefully you will see that I simply said that grigri is great for sport climbing and ubiquitous at sport crags. Did I mention other applications as being impossible or non existent? No. You seem to have imagined that I said something that I did not.

If you go and read the OP again you will see they describe themselves as 'very new' and a 'newbie' and also write 'I'm not doing any type of rope soloing' and ask a question about buying a FIRST belay device. Perhaps you will agree that in this context the uses of a grigri for belayed HARD AID, rope access applications, LEAD ROPE SOLO, working highball boulders, and top rope solo are not exactly the most relevant applications of the device for this discussion.

In reply to jezb1:

Hey jezb1.  Well, I would say that I was sure, but since I was wrong about the pinch, I could equally be wrong about the grigri+. I've tried to defeat the anti-panic function with my grigri+, pulling the handle back really hand, bending the device upward, and so on, and I can't get it to move after it's engaged.  That's why I was so surprised that the Pinch functions differently.  

I'll definitely play around with it next time I get out (it's raining now) and I'll let you know. 

In reply to brunoschull:

https://m.petzl.com/US/en/Sport/News/2017-4-17/GRIGRIPlus--OPTIONS-TO-ENSUR...

"To unblock the rope and complete the lower, you can pull the handle completely back. This overriding of the anti-panic function is for exceptional use only"

Just Google it!

(And consider deleting your posts in the interests of stopping misinformation)

In reply to ebdon:

Thanks ebdon.  I've never been able to get that to work that way, but I'll take your word for it. 

I apologize again fore the missinformation, and I agree that I should delete my missleading posts. 

I'm logged in under my username, but I can't see a "delete" or an "edit" function. 

How can I delete or edit what wrote?

In reply to brunoschull:

Don't take my word for it, read the manual! 

Alas I think you only get a 30 minute window or somthing to edit/delete posts (there's a little red box with a bin in the bottom right corner)

In reply to Toerag:

I've roped up a click-up the wrong way round, just turns it into working like a tube style device so although it's not ideal, it's not a huge problem.

Although I'm a big advocate of the click-up I'd never recommend it gets used as an abseil device.... I'd rather just take a reverso or bug with me and use those instead.

In reply to Lord Shmuel:

From the UKC preview of the GriGri+:-

"Whilst the Anti-Panic function may be something that causes the seasoned red-pointer to yawn, it will undoubtedly be of interest to the novice climber, or - put another way - to someone who frequently climbs with novice climbers. In terms of functionality, the anti-panic kicks in when you pull back the lever too far whilst lowering (something that may sound quite obvious…). It therefore encourages smooth and controlled lowering, as well as meaning that your climbing partner is less likely to drop you or lower you so fast that you hear the sonic boom en route. Once engaged, it can be unlocked either by being released to the front, from where you can begin lowering again, or - in the circumstance of your climbing partner having already been lowered to the ground - overridden by pulling the lever all the way back. Whilst the word ‘anti-panic safety function’ and ‘override’ seem quite risky combined in the same sentence, it is something that really has to be forced - thus not a major flaw. In fact, it neatly gets around the issue picked up on in our Matik review (see here), whereby paying out slack becomes almost impossible when the climber is on a partially weighted rope."

So, a question for people that have used one - it would appear to be similar to the Petzl ID whereby you pull the lever too far and it locks the rope whilst disconnecting the handle from the mechanism and making it 'floppy'. You then let the handle go back to it's rest position then start again.  However, the grigri+ also seems to allow you to reset the floppiness by pulling harder on the handle when there's no weight on the rope?

In reply to Lord Shmuel:

It is quite seductive to think that one can find such a piece of equipment to rule them all, but the reality, of course, is different.

The best device for you will depend on what sort of climbing/belaying you do. And what your climbing buddies are into. Here are some examples.

1. You and your friends are making the first tentative steps into trad climbing. You choose the climbs sensibly, well within your ability. You very occasionally rest on your gear and rarely take lead falls. In effect, the rope and gear are there just in case, but you really don't expect to need them. Get the simplest tubular device, like Petzl Reverso, DMM Pivot, BD ATC, or similar. They are light, can be used for single and double ropes, and you can abseil with them.

2. You and your friends decided to get into sport climbing. You take lots of falls every time you go climbing. Small falls when working the moves and big ones on your redpoint attempts. You often need your belayer to hoist you back up to your last high point. You also want them to hold you for extended periods while you're resting between the moves. Get an assisted device. It's no fun to hoist and hold someone with a tube, especially if they are a bit porky. It's also easier to give a soft catch with an auto-locking device (counterintuitively). It's because you worry less about gripping the rope and can focus on timing your jump. As to which particular device to get, I should note that they behave slightly differently depending on the rope diameter. Grigri will be annoying with a thick rope, as it will lock when you don't want it to. On the other hand, a thinner rope will slip in the likes of Edelrid MegaJul or Mamut Smart, so it's important to have a strong grip on the dead rope (still better than an unassisted device, though).

3. Perhaps you're getting into winter alpinism? Go light and simple. Use the device that you can handle in thick gloves or mitts. There are tubular devices designed for really thin ropes. Use those. 

Hope that helps. If you give us more info on what experience you have and what sort of climbing you're into. People will be able to give the advice that is more tailored.

In reply to Lord Shmuel:

I have been climbing since the late 1970's.  

I have used just about every sort of belay device available since then.

For the last 5+ years or so, I have been using the Climbing Technology Alpine Up.  My regular climbing partners have now also converted to using this device.  

https://www.climbingtechnology.com/en/outdoor-en/belay-devices/manual-braki...

It is an assisted braking device.   The assited braking mode is very effective in helping to hold a fall, particularly when holding a heavier partner in a long lead fall.  It provides a bit of extra security when compared with a traditional tube device.  It's called an "assisted braking" device, but in my experience, it's effectively an automatic braking device.  

Unlike the GriGri, there are no moving parts. (which I like,) and it can be used with single or double ropes.  It can also be used for abseiling.  The abseiling mode is particularly nice because the device locks when you take your hand off of it, which allows for going hands free and doing things like pulling the rope below you out of cracks or off of bushes.  

"Guide mode" for bringing up one or two seconds is smooth and easy.  It's not quite as smooth as using a "plaquete" device, but it's at least as good as the tuber style devices in guide mode.  

So, to sum it up:  It provides additional security for lead belaying, good performance in guide mode, ability to go hands free on rappel, and the ability to use either one or two ropes.  

I don't use anything else now days.  

In reply to Lord Shmuel:

For anyone interested the Alpine up is currently £60 on sale at Troll, plus an additional 10% off for email sign up including postage.

PS I don't work for Troll or Climbing Technology 

In reply to Toerag:

Hi Toerag--what you describe is my exact experience with the grigri+.  I'm suprised and curious to learn that you can overide this function.  Next time I'm on climbing, I'll give it a try.  When the anti-panic feature engages, and the lever is in the "floppy" mode, I always just reset and start again...but maybe (and I have no idea how this would work in practice) you can just keep pulling it back...That would seem to defeat the whole function, but as the article you quote suggests, I think it would take some real work to overide.  

Anyway, I'll try it out and report back. 

In reply to brunoschull:

There’s an updated GriGri+ coming next year which I believe will have an anti panic you can’t override.

The current + though, definitely able to override it. Not saying it’s easy or likely, but you can.