UKC

So I've pretty much had a month off now (many days spent in bed), unable to recover from what seem to be lower back spasms. Lower back pain near the L5 / sacrum, as well as a burning pain on my right hip (possibly where the piriformis crosses) are main symptoms. Sometimes difficulty walking, and at those times I seem to waddle instead of walk. I can pretty much not sit at all, and every time I have for more than a few minutes - it's brought much pain for hours, if not days after. I've been visiting a physio who corrects these misalignments (I'm often too much in pain to contemplate doing the actual exercises I've been given), and am now going through the medical system to get another physio. I've had x-rays - which just showed some super mild scoliosis (which as far as I know, is not something I normally have - I suspect another symptom rather than a cause). I had a similar issue last year, which was much more acute (the pain was at moments a 9/10 - I was screaming like Goku doing a spirit bomb for a few good seconds at a time). I thought I learned my lesson, but apparently not. In terms of root causes, I suspect a lot of sitting lately (8 hours during the day and then a few hours at night), and probably not evenly either (hard wooden chair at home), and I fell onto my ass on the bouldering wall from high up just over a month ago. I also had major pain doing situps with straight legs (I know, never do these!), which seems to be another trigger for me (I did learn never to do it, but it was prescribed in a training course I did and I respected the trainer too much to say no to these). I've partially healed enough to walk probably 3-4 times in the last month, only to be crippled again each time (sometimes walking with a backpack a few blocks was enough to cause 3-4 days of pain), and am quite worried about my future of climbing. It wouldn't be so bad if I knew it would take a month to heal, but trying so hard and reverting back to the beginning is taking it's toll.
Apologies for the ramble. Has anyone had anything similar?

In reply to SenzuBean:

Can you get an MRI? I slipped discs in my thoracic spine after falling whilst climbing. I had excruciating back spasms, which I have wondered if they were more painful due to having strong back muscles from climbing. Slipped discs won't show on an x-ray. It took a long time for me to climb again, and a routine of acupuncture, physio exercises, core exercises and a foam roller to get through. 

In reply to Nicola:

Thanks so much, that makes the most sense of anything I’ve heard yet (including all the “professionals”). I will get it checked out.

In reply to Nicola:

totaly second the mri- mrs pneame is a neurologist and those symptoms say mri to see why, physical therapy or surgery being the likely direcrtions.  With surgery NOT being the preferred route!

A lidocaine patch did wonders when I had spasms a few years back, but nothing as severe as your symptoms  

 

 

In reply to SenzuBean:

I've had a couple of MRIs on my back thanks to worsening compressed discs.

The information they provide is so much better than an xray.

I was offered the lumbar fusion approcah a few years back, but didn't like the sound of the length of time to recover and be off work. Armed with the MRI results, I went to a physio and was givena s et of exercises that reducding the level of pain almost straight away, and I've been able to fall back on these ever since.

That said, it's now 6 years since I started getting issues, and suspect it's further degenerated, so I might have to have further scans and bite the bullet on surgery (I can't remain standing now for more than a few minutes without my right leg going numb and getting quite uncomfortable, and running is out of the question). Strangely, climbing also makes it worse.

 

In reply to SenzuBean:

Sounds shit. See GP / A&E urgently if: weakness or loss of power in legs (not due to pain but absolute); changes in sensation i.e. numbness or tinglingof the legs or between the legs; changes in bowel and bladder function. Also night sweats, fevers, unexplained weight loss should be looked into with some urgency. 

Get a review with your GP to go over your case, eliminate the potentially worrying scenarios, and get some more appropriate therapy in place. It is likely to be non-specific low back pain; this can be extremely painful, but is generally benign in nature. Pain continuing at rest can be worrying, but given your history is more likely to be due to the localised spasm, rather than some underlying pathology of concern. A short course of diazepam or similar muscle relaxant may be indicated, allowing the muscles to release the spasm and heal. 

MRI can be a double-edged sword: it often reveals degenerative changes which are entirely normal and unrelated to the symptoms. Surgery generally has similar or poorer outcomes over the long term in comparison with exercise therapy, so is generally not indicated until last resort. Given that your spasms have not been appropriately controlled as yet, this would probably not come up as an immediate option as per NICE guidelines. 

Don't panic. 

Stay active as much as you can. This is vital. Hot/cold therapy can help, as can self-massage using a foam roller or tennis ball. If no reasons not to, a course of non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs such as ibuprofen or naproxen (with regular paracetamol) will likely ease pain to the point of control, if not to the point of comfort. If the pain carries on your GP or physio may recommend dry needling (a type of acupuncture). 

When seeing your new physio, explain that you are an active individual, and that you want to see a return to full function, and that you're willing to commit fully to the recommended exercise regime. This marks you out as an engaged patient, and will help them to help you. 

 

In reply to SenzuBean:

As unpleasant a thought as it might be to consider, have you thought about arthritic involvement? NRAxSPA or AS or similar?

Any associated uevitis or ureitis? Morning back pain? HLA-B27 Positive?

In reply to SenzuBean:

My guess

Knackered your hip falling, take paracetamol and keep going, unsurprisingly I have no medical qualifications.

If you're under 45 I'm guessing it will get better (same is true for back pain).

Don't listen to medical experts too much - Good luck

In reply to John Kelly: sounds like the start coincided with the fall from the bouldering wall. I could barely move after doing similar. A good chiro sorted it in one session. 

 

In reply to John Kelly: sounds like the start coincided with the fall from the bouldering wall. I could barely move after doing similar. A good chiro sorted it in one session. 

 

In reply to SenzuBean:

I never had any back problems until i fell off my bike and compressed my T8 vertebra, five years ago.  I started doing yoga which has largely kept any spasms at bay.  Are you doing any regular stretching?  I started weekly yoga after the accident and that greatly helped.  I also found that it took at least a year to properly recover from the trauma, so give your back six months to settle down.
Best of luck.  I now find i climb better than before, due to better flexibility and core strength. Chin up!

In reply to SenzuBean:

I had back spasms twice a few years ago:

1. Firstly after a winter fell run in the cold and damp, came back - lay in a bad position on the sofa, back tensed up then went to bed, then came the spasms like a train - 15 seconds each. I screamed. Doctor came - diamorphine injected. Diazepam I carry now in case of any recurrence. I don't know what caused the spasms. The pain was the worst I have ever experienced, unstoppable, must be at least as bad as giving birth but have not done that.

2. After a walk to a local quarry to look at the local rocks in the summer, my back tensed up and the spasms came again, about one-two years after the first episode. The doctor who came would not give me intra-venous morphine unfortunately. She put it into the muscle and it had zero effect. Eventually they subsided and I took diazepam. No idea why these spasms started. Never experienced pain like it.

Only conclusion is that they are age-related. I have lost one inch in height over the years, so presumably the wear and tear on the back leads to an adjustment of the ligaments, muscles and connective tissue - then it settles down when the job is done. I have had no recurrence, but have made regular visits to my friend the osteopath for regular manipulation, he is good.

Otherwise I am fit, healthy, no trouble with anything. Must be just ageing in my case.

In reply to SenzuBean:

what murderous crow said

my (non medical) view:

take diazepam or similar asap and in as bigger quantity as is safe

you need to get the muscles spasm to relax

when you're free of pain - yoga and pilates

have a look at:

http://www.meadowheadphysiotherapy.co.uk/the-team/jenny-manners-mcsp/

(but your not exaclty local) - Jenny's approach worked amazingly for me

definitely look at:

https://www.tamethebeast.org/

good luck

 

In reply to SenzuBean:

Jumping down from the bouldering wall used to set me off - I always had to downclimb - which is all good training so not a big problem. 

When the spasms first happen, I always feel too delicate to let anyone touch me but when it starts to calm down - or before it gets too acute - I go to a chiropractor and that helps me enormously. 

I do yoga every week and I've found that has strengthened muscles to the point where a back attack is rare.  For me, standing for long periods will set it off.  Others recommend Pilates for strengthening your core:  either one will help (once your back is recovered from this latest bout, of course).

As for managing the pain, I use a TENS machine (about £50 from Boots) which helps dim the pain a bit and also keeps me mobile (less waddle).

Wishing you a speedy recovery.

 

In reply to SenzuBean:

I've had similar back problems on and off since I was about 18. I suffered for years till I found a good Chiropractor, not an Osteopath. I still get to odd relapse when one session usually fixes me. I've found the best way to relieve the initial flare up is with an ice pack. 10 minutes on the 10 off five times a day. 

It's different stokes for different folks. It may not work for you. I can appreciate how debilitated you are. 

 

Good luck 

In reply to SenzuBean:

I used to suffer exactly what you described but am largely pain free now. Still suffer tightness but no longer spasms. 

You can spend months and/or fortunes on professionals and scans... but it's likely you have a weakness you need to fix and the way you'll fix it is by doing strength work that you have been neglecting. Agree with those who mention physio exercises, core exercises, foam roller, yoga... stretch the muscles that are over worked and develop the muscles that you've been neglecting. 

Look up "the ido portal method" on Youtube. That's what's fixed my back. I found a gym that teaches that kind of movement and do a couple of sessions a week. I would also look at yoga and gymnastic strength. The Ido Portal style of training will cross over to climbing too. I can't recommend it enough for back pain.

Good luck.

 

In reply to Roger@tilda:

 

I've had back spasms a couple of times and the above is really important. You might have underlying issues but you can't deal with anything until you get your back to relax.

While it's tense there's just a cycle of pain that causes the muscles to spasm which causes pain and round it goes.

I've found that treating the pain quickly and effectively (no point in being wishy-washy about it, take as much pain relief (and muscle relaxant) as you can get hold of, being half-arsed about it doesn't sort it out for me) sorts my back out and helps me to move onto strengthening exercises.

It's all really subjective though, everyone's back issue seems to be slightly different, you need to find what works for you.

My back's been pretty good the last couple of years after a few years of constant pain, things can get better!

In reply to Removed User:

Started getting the odd spasm this winter during a descent from SCNL. For me they're sporadic and brief - especially since returning to the gym (lots of squats and deadlifts) and starting yoga. Typically lasts a few seconds, will be unable to stand and the only time I've ever experienced something I'd give a 9 on the pain scale. One time I nearly passed out from the pain.

In reply to SenzuBean:

About 15 years ago I had upper back spasms and pronounced scoliosis/lean due to a disco injury (the problem came on after an all-night rave!). Years of pain later MRI diagnosed a slipper disc in T7/T8 region.  I can still feel a knot of pain/tightness at this location all day every day. But the scoliosis and severe pain has been cured by yoga and strengthening exercises I do every few days to help build the muscles in that area. Hope you can sort your issues out

In reply to SenzuBean:

Yeah, I get that from time to time.  

Had a bad eposoide about 5 years ago which took a good few months to work through.

Though perhaps not quite as bad as yours.

Couldnt really sit at all, for a couple of weeks.  Had to put my computer monitor on a box and stand at my desk at work.

That last couple of episodes haven't been so bad and I've been shake them off in a week or two.

i've been lucky in that I can generally get back climbing easy routes quite quickly. I had to give up running after the eposoide 5 years ago and haven't really felt very comfortable with the odd 200m jog a might find myself doing from time to time. I didn't seek too much it the way of medical attention, only got a few exercises from a Physio which I guess helps keep it at bay.

i suspect there is a strong corilation between the eposoides and bouldering!

i had a small spasm a couple of weeks ago the day after a gym bouldering session with a fair bit of falling.

Generally, I only fall as a last resort and down climb whenever possible but that obviously limits you to relatively easy problems so real training has to be done on the fingerboard or on a rope.

i'm in Fontainebleau right now - go figure.

Needless to say I'm going round the circuits rather than projecting hard boulders.

In reply to SenzuBean:

A different perspective, possibly as well as, as opposed to instead of, the other advice on here.

A contributory factor may be very tight glutes . This can also cause what feels like hip pain. If you have very tight glutes they pull on the back and 'lock it up'. If you already have an underlying problem it could exaggerate it a lot, and is often caused by extended periods sitting/

I had a very sore back for quite a long time (nothing actually disabling, just an uncomfortable irritant) and if it flared I went to a physio and they told me 'you have a very tight back, we'll try and loosen everything up' - which I already knew. Then I went to a new guy, highly recommended blah blah and they would only see me if my first session was a 'full body check over'. They said it was my glutes that were locked up. Spent half an hour stabbing them with hot knives (or at least that's what it felt like) and sure enough my back felt better than it had done in years. 

Now if my back is tight I roll a ball into my glutes, if it hurts like hell that has normally been the problem and my back immediately loosens. 

In reply to Nicola:

So I looked into whether I have a herniated disc more thoroughly, and found this article: https://www.alwaysfysio.nl/en/herniated-disc-treatment/

I noticed that at least 2 of the exercises he recommends were ones I'd already found relieved a ton of pain (but had stopped because of worries they were bad), and so I spent a day doing nothing but those exercises - and presto - my back is under control again, starting to straighten up, and whatever secondary issues (such as SI joints) seem to be improving too. I didn't get an MRI yet, and I'm unsure if I'll bother at all (because I've now had almost 3 days of quality healing, and so I suspect they won't find much by the time I'd get seen for an MRI). Thanks for your post (and all others too), since that really helped things.

In reply to Šljiva:

I think that's likely. However the thing that made things muddy was that I was immediately fine after, and for days after too. It was a slow-motion train wreck over 10 days afterwards. I think it was particularly the combination of the fall, and too much sitting. If I had known after the fall I'd torn a disc, then I could've healed it much more quickly.

In reply to Takein:

Ironically I was doing tons of back strength work in the weeks leading up to the injury. I think it really helped stabilize the injury, but it also may have masked that I had an injury too.

Will check it out.

Thanks!