So, will we soon be returnoing to the local esoterica video theme featuring crags within walking/cycling distance of peoples' homes?
A new thread is posted each week on Sunday for anyone to jot down their previous week's activity. UKC fit club is a rich community with posters sharing their goals, noting successes and failures and offering support to those struggling to maintain motivation. Anyone interested in starting is very welcome to join, but to get the most of UKC fit club you should aim to post each week, every week, however little or much you have done. By making such a regular public record of your activities and by restating your goals every week this new habit will hopefully improve your training habits and drive you towards achieving your goals whatever the level of your chosen activity.
The following training article by Alex Barrows gives an excellent breakdown on training the four main "energy systems" specific to climbing:- http://alexbarrowsclimbing.blogspot.co.uk/2014/02/training-for-sport-climbing.html also this - https://www.instagram.com/p/CEGfCg7DbkK/?igshid=4a1o55jwpus2
For those wanting to find out more about training for climbing a number of physical training articles are linked here:- http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=274502
And for those looking for more theoretical background, there's a useful subject index of published research studies on the Beta Angel project. Not sure how actively maintained if is though. https://beta-angel.com/research/research-inventory/
AJM - sounds like you have a reasonably full portfolio of potential projects for what remains of the DWS season. Glad to hear the family got through the covid scare ok.
Ally Smith - are you back from holiday / on full time parenting yet?
biscuit - well done maintaining a positive attitude in what sounds like frustrating conditions. I hope the weather improved in the second week
Liam P - sounds like your training motivation is holding up. How long are you expected to be in the inflatable cast/boot thingy?
mattrm - did the wall comeback continue this week?
planetmarshall - who needs training when you're getting on classic esoterica? A mate of mine wanted to do Red Wall as his first ever sea cliff route on a DAV Wales meet, but was somehow unable to persuade anybody to join him
Ross Barker - well done on the 7B+! Does Rigpa feel realistic for this season?
Si dH - congratulations! Hope all went well with the newborn & mum
Somerset swede basher - unfortunate conditions cock-up three. Better this week?
Steve Claw - nice little Lundy trip. I recall having painfully pumped feet on Satan's Slip
the sheep - glad to hear the recovery is progressing well
Tom Green - hope the back has started behaving itself again?
Tyler - you led me into looking into the history of Moonchild: Big Ron showing early promise there in '74 (even though 19 years old wouldn't be "early" these days)
AlanLittle - chin up, progress on an anti-style route is good.
> AJM - sounds like you have a reasonably full portfolio of potential projects for what remains of the DWS season. Glad to hear the family got through the covid scare ok.
Cheers Alan. Still hoping that there is a remains of the dws season, but my faith is being tested by this weather!
During the week, I just didn’t really get any actual climbing done. I just seemed to get sucked into work and therefore failed to make time, whilst also not feeling like it’s been the most effective of weeks as far as work goes! I did a few bits of vaguely climbing related admin, in that I mounted the new footholds on the board, got some rawl plugs for remounting the fingerboard, I scraped together all the old climbing logs I could find and put them onto ukc, and I put all my ticks into the new Dorset Rockfax (I’m not a big ticker of guidebooks usually, but particularly when it comes to lower graded routes - warmups, mileage days etc - it’s good to have the record of what I’ve done so that I do things that are new).
Along the way this has raised the psyche for Swanage trad again. It’s also reminded me of how much of a nonsense using trad grades for dws is, as I ticked “two of the hardest E4s in Dorset” according to the graded list as well as two E5s. Let’s just say I don’t feel like I’m any better qualified to tackle Polaris or Mother Africa!
Saturday I went to the wall with miniAJM, had a good session, a bunch of new problems, generally in the 1-5 goes sort of range. Despite thin skin I went back Sunday - passes expiring soon and miniAJM was keen - and had a surprisingly good session really. Skin definitely sore now though!
Got a few more passes left to use this week, so probably get some indoor time in this week. Weather looks like it’s still a nono for dws, awaiting the rise of the bouldering psyche…..
> A mate of mine wanted to do Red Wall as his first ever sea cliff route on a DAV Wales meet, but was somehow unable to persuade anybody to join him
It’s a route for specialised tastes!
> Moonchild: Big Ron showing early promise there in '74
Yes, the location of some of his early FA’s is a bit strange especially as CHS and Trowbarrow would have been proper backwaters then.
M: Worked late so nipped out and managed 3km (inc warm up) on treadmill.
T: Worked late so no treadmill
W: blochaus, managed 2x 6a+ on the Moonboard but got shut down by everything else.
T: Treadmill at 2% incline. Did 6km at 10km/h which felt comfortably zone 1/2. Would have kept going but bit of a sugar crash.
F: Treadmill 7km @10km/h and 2% incline plus 1km warm up/down. Felt ok but possible my left hip was aching at the end, will see how much of an issue that is once I start pushing my runs past 1 hour
S: Stockport wall, 6 tie ins (two doubles) OS 2x6c+, very close on a 7a. Really please with how I climbed although I did pull my shoulder a bit, not too bad today so possibly got away with it….
S: 30 mins yoga. 35 mins Z1/2 on treadmill, short session as the place was closing so forced to do 1km @11km/h which felt ok but if I’m to stick the program I need keep it to 10km/h
Enthused for the Z1/2 stuff after seeing alexm (former FCer and TFNA enthusiast) has done the Peuterey Integrale
> the location of some of [Ron's] early FA’s is a bit strange
There's a 7a of his at Konstein, a relatively obscure backwater crag near me. I keep telling myself I ought to get on it at some point - but I fear both the grading and the protection will turn out to be rather old school
> but I fear both the grading and the protection will turn out to be rather old school
You may as well have a look, Frankenjura doesn’t do easy grades does it?
> Somerset swede basher - unfortunate conditions cock-up three. Better this week?
Nope, unfortunately, conditions cock up four actually!
Tues. Repeaters (but with +4kg which felt fine) , pull ups, press ups. Then an hr of yoga.
Wed. Autobelay aerocap session.
Sat. Headed down the cornice not expecting much given the weather this week. Top of powerplant was seeping badly. Given the biblical amount of rain forecast for Tuesday that could well be it for this year. Did dog up to the wet bit quickly to see if I could engineer a rest on the lower section but think I've got my beta now. Just need good conditions and to get a bit fitter over winter. Had a play on a 7b further right. Did all the moves and had just about managed to tea towel the wet top into a climbable state when the heavens opened and everything became a bit pointless on the slab. Did a few laps of the dry bit at the bottom to feel like I'd done something then gave up. Not a wasted trip as my partners project was still just about hanging in there conditions wise but I didn't get much done.
Sun. 11km run then took the kids for a 2hr walk in the hills.
Starting to feel a bit meh about the weather. My fingers don't work very well on routes when it's less than 10 degree C and I've had enough of wet rock already and it's only been about 3 weeks of poor weather. I think it's because work has been busy so I've not been able to get out mid week too. On the plus side grit season is rearing its head if it stops raining and I'm keen to try Back Street Mime Artist this year which I meant to get on last winter and never got round to trying.
Cheers for the stats as always, Alan. Rigpa felt achievable last winter too, I think if I hadn't done my finger in it could've gone either way. Hopefully it'll get done this winter. Added a couple other goals for this winter too.
A relatively "meh" week from me, two indoor sessions as I've just been a bit run down and tired from various external factors. Hopefully the coming weeks yield high energy and good weather to turn it around! Tentatively ticking off the finger rehab, I feel like at this point as long as I warm up and don't be a pillock all will be well.
M - Rest.
T - Moonboard power hour. Flashed a few problems up to 7A, then had three good goes at "Hard Pull On Var", held the crux but slipped off before getting my feet back on. A few pushups to finish. Left shoulder and down the back is achey, presumably from a successful Saturday.
W - Rest.
T - Rest.
F - Rest.
S - Moonboard again. Felt strong warming up but soon felt sluggish and lethargic. Flailed on a few open 7s then settled on repeating a few good 6B+ problems. Fingers weren't too weak, think I was just moving a bit crap and struggling on power. Shoulder fully recovered, at least.
S - Rest.
M - Gym. Probably a relatively light one, save a bit of power for W.
T - Rest.
W - Rigpa. Hopefully. Might back out if my weird fatigue persists.
T - Rest.
F - Rest.
S, S - Hopefully fit a bit of something between assembling a shed and moving loads of junk.
Big Al Qaeda.
Thank you Alan,
Turning up the endurance training this week. Off to Cornwall next weekend, so looking to increase staying power when on trad.
Mon - Indoor Bouldering. Auto-Warmup, Max hangs 10s*6 +15kg with planks in rests. Then short play on woody and boulders to V6 and 1 x V7
Thurs - Indoor Boulders and Endurance session. Auto-Warmup, Max Hangs 10s*6 +17.5kg (increase in weight felt ok) short play on the woody, then 2 x Auto-Endurance session
Auto-Endurance session = Up 7a (hardest route), Reverse 7a, Up 7a (feeling pumped now) then reverse and de-pump on easy juggy 5, all done without feet touching the ground. Continue up 7a and down 5, for 20 minutes total. Rest 15 minutes.
Fri - DOMS!
Sun - Indoor Boulders and Endurance session. Auto-Warmup, Max Hangs 10s*6 +17.5kg (felt harder) short play on the woody, then 2 x Auto-Endurance session.
> Si dH - congratulations! Hope all went well with the newborn & mum
Thanks Alan. It was a bit stressful for a while, but everyone well now, touch wood.
M: mostly a rest, I did put up a proper pull-up bar in my garage though.
T: bouldering at the hangar in the afternoon. There was one problem I tried quite a bit that had a cramped (crescent moon shaped) left hand crimp and I could feel my finger hurting slightly afterwards. Need to continue being careful with it.
W: rest, could feel quite a few creaky fingers!
T: hospital all day - family came home in the evening
F: morning - did 3*30 second density hangs, 5 * 3/6/9 hangs with bodyweight +20kg on the 27 mm edge (half crimp) and 3*5 scap pull-ups on the pull-up bar. I can do the scap pull-ups on the bar without any assistance, fairly easily on my right but with difficulty on my left. Finger good throughout.
S: evening - did a crimpd app 'hip and leg flexibility - B' routine. I felt like the old hip mobility routine I was doing had helped my hamstring length but not much else, so decided to try something new. This routine takes significantly longer so it'll need more willpower to do it often enough.
S: morning - did 3*30 second density hangs, then 5 * 3/6/9 hangs with bodyweight +20kg (half crimp). First two sets on the 27mm edge, then I did 3 sets with AAA batteries instead of the plastic spacers I made, which I think brings the edge down to around 23mm. I think this would be a good edge to train on longer term. My max 12 second hang weight isn't much different but I could feel my fingers working harder than on the 27mm edge. I did start to feel a low level of discomfort in the injured finger in the 9 second hangs though.
Still working out the art of the possible really wrt fitting training and climbing in between parenting activities for baby + four year old.
Cheers Alan. I’ve another X-ray later this month so will know more then. The heel is still bruised and swollen but this week I managed to weight the ball of my foot, which was quite surprising as I’m only four weeks post-break.
Recovery Club Goals
Weight: Had a week of bingeing due to a family visit. Managed to put a cool 7lbs on!(179lb)
Have a good week.
Sendtember draws to a close, but without any sending
STG: Actually climb something.
MTG: Leonidio in November. Ditch the lockdown weightbelt (3 to 5 kgs) beforehand and get fit
LTG: Be a confident, well rounded low to mid 7's sport climber. For measurable definition see Fit Club 658
M: Wall, Thalkirchen. Had a session with a local coach, mostly focused on hip initiation of movement. Worked on a spray wall simulation of the move I'm not getting on my current Frankenjura project - probably one of the first times I've ever spent most of a session on real limit bouldering on single moves. Also picked up some ideas & tips on how to get as much as possible out of my remaining (too little, too late) endurance training time for Leonidio in November.
W: Wall, Weyarn. Autobelay session to kick off the too little, too late Leonidio endurance programme. Twelve routes, all in the 6b/c range after the first two easier warm-ups. They've set a bunch or new routes with big comp style volumes. These turn out to be excellent fun and probably also good specific tufa training - laying away on roundedness, finding abstruse shoulder jam rests etc.
T: My signed copy of Beastmaking arrived today. I fear this may not be enough in itself to bring about any improvement in my climbing until I also (a) read it and (b) do the things it tells me to do
Bike one hour - I did almost no cardio base work in September after I had a bit of cold at the end of August; time to get back on the wagon.
F: Max hangs
S: My son's first time on a rope outdoors for about ten years. We went to Breitenberg Südwand, one of a tiny handful of Frankenjura crags that has decent easy routes with relatively friendly bolting. He did well considering the bolting is only "friendly" by local standards
> The following training article by Alex Barrows gives an excellent breakdown on training the four main "energy systems" specific to climbing:- http://alexbarrowsclimbing.blogspot.co.uk/2014/02/training-for-sport-climbing.html also this - https://www.instagram.com/p/CEGfCg7DbkK/?igshid=4a1o55jwpus2
> For those wanting to find out more about training for climbing a number of physical training articles are linked here:- http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=274502
> And for those looking for more theoretical background, there's a useful subject index of published research studies on the Beta Angel project. Not sure how actively maintained if is though. https://beta-angel.com/research/research-inventory/
I've been thinking for a while that the old ukc training thread post, and maybe also the Barrows article, have had their time. The vast majority of links in the old post of Shark's are now broken; of those that work most are old ukc articles by people like Gresham and MacLeod whose thinking has undoubtedly moved on in the intervening 15 years. I think we should retire it. The Barrows article was really useful at the time but is now >7.5 years old (!) and is quite complex to understand... I'm sure since then things have also moved on and I suspect that if we knew where to look on social media there are probably easier to understand versions that give some similar but further developed messages.
I've never used the beta angel site.
I guess what I think is: it would be good if we could replace most of the above with a new link in these starter posts to an updated collation of training advice from the last 2-3 years. This could include good podcasts as well as articles. Some of us have been consuming this stuff for years and years so we might be able to capture some good information sources that others are unaware of. I'm happy to contribute but wouldn't want to go it alone.
Firstly, do people agree and does anyone know of something 'ready made'? Secondly, if not, what do you think is the best way of collating it? I could start a new thread with my initial suggestions, for people to add to?
> Firstly, do people agree and does anyone know of something 'ready made'? Secondly, if not, what do you think is the best way of collating it? I could start a new thread with my initial suggestions, for people to add to?
The Lattice Blog is a good resource. I'm not aware of a single 'FAQ' type resource though. https://latticetraining.com/blog/
I think it's a good idea.
Beta Angel has a lot of good stuff but I get the impression it may have been a short lived initiative that isn't being maintained.
An exciting new header might be a good way for the next MC to mark the start of their time in office @SSB?
> The Barrows article was really useful at the time but is now >7.5 years old (!) and is quite complex to understand...
Goodness, that makes me feel old....
I'm good at motivational talk but a bit light on actual constructive advice so it might be better if someone helps Si put a training bit together and I'll paste it into the start of posts. My general approach is to keep turning up and trying hard until the project goes down! Probably far from the most effective way of doing things but does mean I enjoy lots of time on rock rather than plastic (usually).
An update makes sense but I’ve nothing to suggest as it’s not really my area (I use these threads more as a diary).
> Probably far from the most effective way of doing things but does mean I enjoy lots of time on rock rather than plastic (usually).
Now there’s an invitation for a debate!
It's interesting as it slightly ties in with my first thought which is "what's that set of links intended to do; who is it for?". I tend to think that obsessives may not need it and beginners also may not need it - given that "lots of time on rock" and "keep turning up and trying hard" are perfectly sensible steers for how to improve at climbing in the early/middle part of a career!
I think the first step in mental "what should you do" flow chart is "are you able to go climbing" and of the answer is "Y" then the answer is probably "go do that".
Obviously not everyone can maximise the amount of time they spend climbing, and of course that's where some sort of training steer might be useful, but personally I think you can get a long way by just climbing especially if you're prepared to tailor the sort of climbing you do in order to target weaknesses, which admittedly requires a bit more self discipline...
It may be that it's best just to ditch it. I think if any of us regular posters used the current info, we'd have updated it long ago. It feels like the links stayed there out of a sense of inertia. However I also thought an updated version might be useful for new posters, or potentially generate more new posters, if it provided a better source of information. If people think not (and maybe the whole idea of links on an internet page rather than an Instagram story is too old-hat) then we could just not have anything..?
> if you're prepared to tailor the sort of climbing you do in order to target weaknesses, which admittedly requires a bit more self discipline...
I think you also need some knowledge of training protocols and energy systems to do this effectively. I actually saw my best ever period of improvement when I was mostly just climbing outside, but it was because I had loads of time (no kids!), could get out several times a week and had some knowledge about what other bits and pieces to do around my outside climbing, which depended what that outside climbing was. And also what types of outside climbing would help me get better at other types of outside climbing. If that makes sense. Anyway, off topic...
No, no, on topic! Continue talking about how to get good, I'm taking notes!
> I think you also need some knowledge of training protocols and energy systems to do this effectively.
I would probably say the key thing is to be able to identify, or who have friends who can identify, weaknesses well. Then at a simple level you just do the opposite - if you’re unfit go get pumped a lot, if you’re weak do some hard moves, if you have no technique then try to climb things well. You can refine exactly how you do that to the nth degree obviously, so I’m taking a slightly reducto ad absurdum kind of view, but if you climbed on steep ground every time someone said you were unfit, went bouldering each time you were weak, and so on - it might not eke out every last drop of potential from the training time but I’m not sure many of us are doing anything that optimised anyway!
> If people think not (and maybe the whole idea of links on an internet page rather than an Instagram story is too old-hat) then we could just not have anything..?
Just it be clear, I’m not against having them there just because I don’t use them. I’m just a dinosaur who doesn’t do enough of the low hanging fruit to warrant investing much time in the science. That’s not to say I wouldn’t be interested in articles that would make my climbing/training time more efficient.
S/M/LTG - Still to decide.
M - T - Rest
W - Y Fal - 6 miles and 500m ascent
F - S - Rest
The diet is slowly taking shape. Sadly, my mate was ill, so no wall this week. Saved me £9.50 tho, it was a bit of a shock paying so much the other week if I'm honest. When did they get so expensive?
So went for a hill walk instead. Work and general lack of energy meant the rest of the week was a bit of a disaster.
I always meant to start up a new training resources thread. Maybe we could put together a few ideas on here first?
I'd be happy to put an article on my website if that would help, then we could just keep that nice and neat.
Yes, the shark post should probably go the way of the dodo.
> personally I think you can get a long way by just climbing especially if you're prepared to tailor the sort of climbing you do in order to target weaknesses
I've made a conscious effort in the last couple of years to get on more things near my limit that don't play to my strengths. And while I still think this should do me good in the longer term, the question is how long? Short term the constant banging my head against things I'm not getting up is getting pretty f*cking depressing.
Of course a year and a half of "the last couple of years" have been pretty much written off by the pandemic, got to make some allowance for that.
> alexm (former FCer and TFNA enthusiast) has done the Peuterey Integrale
Glad to see this. I was a bit worried when he dropped out of here and the Zugspitze Ultra with knee troubles
> I've made a conscious effort in the last couple of years to get on more things near my limit that don't play to my strengths. And while I still think this should do me good in the longer term, the question is how long? Short term the constant banging my head against things I'm not getting up is getting pretty f*cking depressing.
It’s tricky, isn’t it. Objectively, the answer is probably that you should do whatever your anti style is until it is no longer your anti style i.e. until your performances in this area match those in your traditional areas of strength. But as you say in the short term that’s got the potential to be pretty frustrating and so it potentially requires an eye on the long game that only the most dedicated will possess, so for most people I guess it’s finding the balance between the immediate and the long term.
I’m in agreement with AJM here in that you may be giving yourself too much of a hard time. You seem to be making the goal short bouldery routes whereas the goal is really to make you strong enough to easily dispatch the cruxes on the sort of routes you enjoy. So you should boulder indoors during the week to get stronger but stick to the sort of routes you enjoy (and can get up) when outdoors.
Pretty much a nil report due to isolation. Just a 2kg gain from inactivity and over eating!
Thanks Alan. Whinging about humidity whilst staying in a villa with a pool by the beach and climbing a lot is not really on is it? Conditions didn't really improve but a great time was still had.
M - Tierra de nadie back to the long routes here. Did a 6b warm up and then ticked El principiante (7b) second go and had a look at Rocódromo (7c). The 7b is voted a bit soft on here but consensus amongst the others at the crag was that it's legit.
T - Rest
W - Tierra de nadie again. A different 6b warm up and then onsighted Emili 7b which despite being in the logbooks i can't link to. Again the same people voted it a it soft on here but a different bunch of climbers who did it later in the day said they felt it was a decent 7b. I then flashed Undreground (7a).
F - Warm up on 6b onsight attempt on Discriminación positiva (7b). Gutted i chose to follow the tick marks which turned out to be foot holds. Desperate last day 3rd day on attempt to flash Santi Deluxe (7a+). No beans left. Defeated but happy
S - Travel
S - Rest
So 6x7a's flashed or onsighted, no 7a+'s weirdly and 3x7b's, 1 on sight 2 second go.
But most of all i tried hard and enjoyed myself. I didn't care (in a good way) if i succeeded or failed as long as i had tried hard and didn't shout take because i was scared.
The plan is for a relaxed week this week and a couple of high intensity sessions next week before a week in chorro!
> I didn't care (in a good way) if i succeeded or failed as long as i had tried hard and didn't shout take because i was scared.
MTG: be able to say the same about my trip to Leonidio next month as biscuit just said about his trip
Thanks for the feedback
> You seem to be making the goal short bouldery routes
Not exactly. The goal is getting over my head issues and resulting hesitancy and wasted energy on steep ground, and I am having some success at that. It's just I'll be happier once I actually get something in that vein ticked, even though I know in my head that getting on them and failing gallantly is progress too.
Most of what I have available locally is relatively short & punchy - the big imposing goldeny-orange 40 metre walls tend to be in Greece or Spain and I don't go there that often. Admittedly there are a few bigger crags in the Frankenjura, and more in the Bavarian Alps, that I could make a bit more effort to get on and probably should.
Hi All. Thanks for statting Alan.
A good news week, in that the back did recover (although I was pretty crocked for most of the week) and, better still, it stayed ok throughout house move 2.0.
Now that the main upheaval is over I'm pretty psyched to get stuck in to an autumn training period. The main goals are to get ready for the best ever Scottish season (cue a winter of tropical temperatures!)
The last month of patchy training and a lot of heavy lifting has been the reminder I needed that I'm pretty out of shape from a general strength and conditioning perspective. Turns out just max hangs and pull-ups don't maintain core strength and resilience particularly well! Need to build some conditioning and prehab back in to my life (which is a shame, as I find this stuff very hard to motivate myself for!)
Can't remember what I did, other than housing move Fri-Sun.
Ease back in to active life!
1 climbing session.
1 prehab session.
STGs (end 2021):
Run all segments of the Cleveland Way
Average 1 E-point per week.
MTGs (end March 22):
Lots of Scottish mixed at VI and VII
Something long, hard and suffery in the Alps.
Agree that a heavy edit is probably due -there's no point posting defunct links.
Personally, I did find the Barrows article very useful, when I was first thinking about some structured training. And whilst I could have found that or something similar by myself, it was pretty helpful that it was signposted by this thread.
I think it would good to have something along those lines linked from the weekly OP. I'm sure there are newer, slicker things that we could replace the current material with... Crimpd/Lattice stuff? Cafe Kraft? Uphill Athlete? But I think it would be a shame not to signpost any resources at all.
> Starting to feel a bit meh about the weather. My fingers don't work very well on routes when it's less than 10 degree C and I've had enough of wet rock already and it's only been about 3 weeks of poor weather.
You know what this means... DRY TOOLING SEASON!
Yep. Absolutely mega ascent. Although I always worry about what happens after you've done the Peuterey Integrale... you've basically ticked the alps, so do you just call it quits and sell your kit?!
Haha! It wasn’t a hint, but always psyched for a Masson sesh. Let me know if you’re tempted to get back on the tools now the crappy weather is here!
I am actually, since my partner for tomorrow just dropped out. But I guess the Frankenjura might be inconvenient to get to at short notice?
To be fair flying to Munich and then flying back without barely leaving the terminal is more fun than dry tooling in Masson Lees
I assumed it would be too far to be worthwhile from your new place? Next time the weather turns bad again I'll come and give you a belay. I'm keen deploy some stamina at that extension to guilty picks.