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Three favourite symphonies

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 Rog Wilko 06 Dec 2024

Just spotted the Halle doing Mahler 2 at Bridgewater Hall in the new year. Just got tickets, but almost a sell out. Got me thinking - which three symphonies would I always try to attend if within reach? I came up with the following, in order of preference. Interesting that they all have names:

Mahler 2 “The Resurrection”

Shostakovich 7 “The Leningrad”

Nielsen 4 “The Inextinguishable”

Anyone else want to play the game?

3
 SATTY 06 Dec 2024
In reply to Rog Wilko:

What no beethoven,the best

 Anotherclimber 06 Dec 2024
In reply to Rog Wilko:

Shostakovich 4 and 11 plus Bruckner 5. On another day I could quite happily go along with your choices. But today it's the above.....mood has a lot to do with it. Lucky bugger getting M2 tickets.

 Doug Hughes 06 Dec 2024
In reply to Rog Wilko:

Over the last year or so I've fulfilled the ambition to hear three symphonies I've always wanted to hear live:

Mahler 10 (at RNCM)

Bruckner 9 (completed version ay Bridgewater Hall)

Sibelius 7 (at Bridgwater Hall).

If there's a work I would always turn out for, it would be Mahler 8.

Sorry - only a few posts in and I've already failed to answer the original question properly!

OP Rog Wilko 06 Dec 2024
In reply to Doug Hughes:

I’ve somehow never got to grips with Bruckner. What’s his entry level work?

OP Rog Wilko 06 Dec 2024
In reply to SATTY:

I’m familiar with them all, but I just never buy tickets. I could just make an exception for the Eroica. Same with Mozart I’m ashamed to say.

OP Rog Wilko 06 Dec 2024
In reply to Anotherclimber:

Not sure the rules allow 2 works by the same composer.

Must admit I go along with Sh. 4. I’ve got the disc by Netherlands Radio Philhamonic under Wigglesworth (incidentally my mum’s maiden name) which is breathtaking. Heard it during this year’s proms at the RAH, but didn’t match the above.

You’ve made me realise I’ve never heard Sh. 11. Must rectify that. I’ve got a cd with Sh12 which I love too, especially the depiction of  the battleship Aurora shelling the Winter Palace. Absolutely thrilling.

Post edited at 11:29
 Anotherclimber 06 Dec 2024
In reply to Rog Wilko:

OK then, how about Sh. 4, 11 and 5. That's three by Shostakovich so does that get round the two works by the same composer rule? No? Thought not, so wipe Sh 4 and replace with Nielsen 5.

 ellis 06 Dec 2024
In reply to Rog Wilko:

> I’ve somehow never got to grips with Bruckner. What’s his entry level work?

7 is my favourite, but I don't know them all.

Mahler 2, 3 and Sibelius 1 for the 3 symphonies.

 Andy Clarke 06 Dec 2024
In reply to Rog Wilko:

I have a real soft spot for 20th century British symphonists and two of the highest peaks for me are:

Vaughan Williams 5

Simpson 9

Plus a classic:

Beethoven 9

 Pero 06 Dec 2024
In reply to Rog Wilko:

Tchaikovsky 6th

Rachmaninov 2nd

Shostakovich 5th

All Russian!

 Myfyr Tomos 06 Dec 2024
In reply to Rog Wilko:

Brahms every time, but which three? Shame to leave one out.

 Point of View 06 Dec 2024
In reply to Rog Wilko:

Shostakovich 1 2 and 3. I need these three in order to complete the set of having heard them all live.

 Myfyr Tomos 06 Dec 2024
In reply to Andy Clarke:

Talking British, I have a soft spot for Elgar's 1st.

 Andy Clarke 06 Dec 2024
In reply to Myfyr Tomos:

> Talking British, I have a soft spot for Elgar's 1st.

The two Elgar symphonies seem to divide opinion, some for the first, some for the second. Similar with the two Walton symphonies. 20th century British music was quite the hotbed of symphony writing!

 Myfyr Tomos 06 Dec 2024
In reply to Andy Clarke:

What about the "3rd" then? I like it.😊

 Andy Clarke 06 Dec 2024
In reply to Myfyr Tomos:

> What about the "3rd" then? I like it.😊

I'm certainly glad that all that original work got put together and preserved for posterity. After all, it's not like Elgar was particularly prolific. Nor Walton come to that.

 Sean Kelly 06 Dec 2024
In reply to Rog Wilko:

What a choice to make. It changes every week. But for now...

Beethoven 'Eroica'

Mahler no 4

Sibelius no 2

OP Rog Wilko 06 Dec 2024
In reply to Pero:

> Tchaikovsky 6th

> Rachmaninov 2nd

> Shostakovich 5th

> All Russian!

Very suspicious MI5 will be investigating 

OP Rog Wilko 06 Dec 2024
In reply to Point of View:

> Shostakovich 1 2 and 3. I need these three in order to complete the set of having heard them all live.

Good effort! I’ve never seen any of these even being advertised.

In reply to Rog Wilko:

Beethoven 9th, Eroica and 5th head my list, closely followed by various Schubert, Mozart, Tchaikovky, Sibelius, Mahler and Brahms, in roughly that order.

 McHeath 06 Dec 2024
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

That would be pretty much my choice, except that I‘d replace Beethoven 9 with Mozart‘s „Jupiter“ at the very top, and Tchaikovsky with Saint Saëns‘ Sympnony in C (the „Organ“).

 wert 06 Dec 2024
In reply to Rog Wilko:

Three I’ve enjoyed playing a few times …

1st Brahms 2

2nd Tchaikovsky 5

= 3rd Dvořák 8 and Franck D minor 

 Tom Guitarist 06 Dec 2024

Hmmm I'm a big Beethoven fan..

Beethoven 7 and 9, and Sh 4 for me.

If I have to go for three different composers then probably replace Beethoven 9 for maybe Tippett 2. Hard call to make though. Realistically I'd be happy with any 3 from Beethoven 3-9!

In reply to Rog Wilko:

Any of Philip Glass's dozen or so would do. Failing that the almost 2 symphonies by Franz Listz.

 Bottom Clinger 06 Dec 2024
In reply to Tom Guitarist:

Realistically I'd be happy with any 3 from Beethoven 3-9!

Same here. Currently listening to number 7, which I’ve  elevated  to top spot in the last few years. 

 Doug Hughes 07 Dec 2024
In reply to Rog Wilko:

I'd say number 7 - so much lyricism and beauty. 8 and 9 are fabulous too, with more drama.

 mountainbagger 07 Dec 2024
In reply to Rog Wilko:

Tchaikovsky 5

Tchaikovsky 6

Beethoven 6 or 9, maybe a tie there

 freeflyer 07 Dec 2024
In reply to Rog Wilko:

Excellent thread

I note that there are a number of fails regarding 3 being the limit of the symphonies that you need to choose.

So in the same spirit, here are two symphonies and a ballet:

Sibelius 5 - what a fabulous ending.

Mahler 2 - no comment required.

Glazunov The Seasons - way way better than Vivaldi.

1
 veteye 08 Dec 2024
In reply to Rog Wilko:

> I’ve somehow never got to grips with Bruckner. What’s his entry level work?

Possibly the Romantic No 4. I love the 9th, when I'm feeling depressed/low.

1. Symphonie Fantastique. Berlioz

2. No9 Beethoven

3.No2 Rachmaninov.

Yet would also consider Prokofiev Classical. Beethoven Eroica. Sibelius 5. 

 Greenbanks 08 Dec 2024
In reply to Rog Wilko:

Mahler 5

Sibelius 2

Beethoven 6

On the subs bench: Elgar 1

In reply to Rog Wilko:

Tchaick 5

Mahler 4

Brahms 4, but better if it's a summer performance outdoors so I can wander off to the bar during the 2nd and 3rd movements and come back for the finale.

Since I've only used up half a Brahms symphony, taking Scheherazade.

Sorry Beethoven. If it were string quartets...

In reply to George Sandstone:

I don't think you need to apologise to Beethoven. I doubt if he would have been bothered by an audience member who likes to wander off in the middle of concerts.

1
 steveriley 08 Dec 2024
In reply to Rog Wilko:

I’ve been key pondering since you posted, it’s clearly daft and unanswerable so I’ll go top of head: Sibelius 5, Shost 10, Bruckner 9. Sorry Ludwig. I could have gone for 3 Sibeliuses and still struggled to pick 3 from 4,5,6,7. Or 2.

 petemeads 08 Dec 2024
In reply to Rog Wilko:

Mahler 2 (saw Gilbert Kaplan conduct it in Leicester). Or Mahler 4. Definitely not Mahler 5.

Sibelius 2, or 5

Beethoven Eroica, or 7 or 8 (but not 5 or 9).

Can't believe I didn't choose Vaughan Williams 5...

 planetmarshall 08 Dec 2024
In reply to Rog Wilko:

  • Beethoven 9
  • Rachmaninoff 2
  • Dvořák 9. Such a banger.
 liss 08 Dec 2024
In reply to Rog Wilko:

Lovely thread.

Eroica, Sibelius 5, Shostakovich 5 for me.

Surprised by the relative consistency in choices so far!

In reply to John Stainforth:

Yes, it's unlikely that Beethoven's ghost roams UKC because he can't go climbing and would be bothered if he did. But just in case! Ok Beethoven 7!!! But it's not fair to other composers and no fun because Beethoven is in his own league.

Post edited at 23:26
 duncan 08 Dec 2024
In reply to Rog Wilko:

Entry-level Bruckner? Probably Schubert's 'Unfinished' 8th! More than half-seriously, try the 7th or 4th. Like any big orchestral work Bruckner really benefits from being heard live. Bruckner was a church organist and I think his Symphonies work especially well in a long reverberation acoustic - like a big church or the Albert Hall - which helps make sense of those strange...pauses.

Three symphonies is impossible. One day it might be Mahler 9, Bruckner 8 and Vaughan Williams 5. 

On a second it could be Mahler 1, Bruckner 7 and Sibelius 5.

And a third Beethoven 7, Shostakovich 10 and Brahms 4. Or do I mean Brahms 1?

These are all big serious Romantic works and it seems criminal to not to include any Haydn, Mozart, or Schubert (one sneaked into the intro...). And what is a symphony anyway? Strauss's Alpine Symphony is really a tone-poem but is Mahler’s Song of the Earth actually his 9th Symphony?  

Oops, I seem to have reached 15.

 tjhare1 09 Dec 2024
In reply to Rog Wilko:

Here are my three, but choosing just three really is as fickle as the weather...

  • Tchaikovsky 5 (could have gone with 4)
  • Bruckner 7 (could have gone with 4)
  • Beethoven 7
  • And then for my naughty entry: Guilmant's 1st "symphony"...

These threads are great - they prompt you to dig out those works that you haven't listened to for so long with no good reason. All the more true in the age of digitally streamed music when they aren't just staring you in your face on the CD shelf.

 Sean Kelly 09 Dec 2024
In reply to veteye:

> Possibly the Romantic No 4. I love the 9th, when I'm feeling depressed/low.

> 1. Symphonie Fantastique. Berlioz

> 2. No9 Beethoven

> 3.No2 Rachmaninov.

> Yet would also consider Prokofiev Classical. Beethoven Eroica. Sibelius 5. 

Yes, methinks I should have had Berlioz in my top 3.

 kevin stephens 10 Dec 2024
In reply to Rog Wilko:

I’ve been trying, without much success yet to put together my answer to this. It was a bit easier when I had a limited selection on my CD rack, including all of Beethoven’s and Mahler’s. Now that the CD’s are in the loft and I have a very good second hand Linn streamer and a Qobuz subscription I’ve been listening to them again, including different recordings/performances of some and also composers and symphonies new to me. Last night I listened to Mahler 3 on my very good wireless headphones via bluetooth and I couldn’t understand why I liked it previously. This morning I’m listening to it again (2nd movement) on my HiFi system with my morning coffee and I’m blown away by it. Quality of reproduction does playa massive part in enjoyment of recorded classical music.

I’m finding the “slow burners” to have more lasting appeal than some of the “flashier” more popular works. I’m going to choose from 3 different composers to keep the variety and options for what suits my mood at any time. There has to be one Beethoven in the top 3 and I’ve chosen the 7th. There will be one from Mahler but I haven’t decided which yet. The third choice will take me a while , possibly one of the English composers or maybe Brahms or Rachmaninoff 2, or something I’ve not come across yet. It won’t be anything pre romantic. It’s going to be an enjoyable journey, I’ll post updates if this thread stays live.

OP Rog Wilko 10 Dec 2024
In reply to George Sandstone:

The unspoken idea behind this thread was that some works create a huge emotional response in us which we crave and continually want to repeat. Although I am very familiar with all Beethoven’s symphonies and regard them as a pinnacle of the genre, they do not, apart perhaps from #9 and to a lesser extent the Eroica, create that emotional high which some other works do. I guess it’s similar to my response to Mozart’s huge symphonic output. I know the later ones are great works and all that, and I’m happy to listen while driving, but to all intents and purposes they leave me emotionally chilled if not cold. 
I’m guessing, in view of the choices others have expressed above, that I’m not alone here. There’s been a lot of mentions of works by romantic composers like Mahler and Sibelius, and also Shostakovich whom I regard as a sort of latter day romantic. And I don’t think I’ve seen a single reference to Mozart.

A lot of people like me with no musical upbringing or education don’t really understand how or why the cognoscenti praise the work of some composers, in my case Bach and Mozart, whose work we don’t actively dislike but which do not raise our emotional heartbeat.

 Andy Clarke 10 Dec 2024
In reply to Rog Wilko:

Given the brazen abuse of the rules by most posters I'm coming back for a second go. Once again my British choices come from two cycles that for me are among the great achievements of 20th century music, Vaughan Williams and Robert Simpson:

Vaughan Williams 6

Simpson 5

But I have to  retain my third choice, as something to cling to when my faith in humanity falters:

Beethoven 9

 Andy Long 10 Dec 2024
In reply to Rog Wilko:

 Carl Nielsen 4th

 Aaron Copeland 3rd

 Roy Harris 3rd

 Sean Kelly 10 Dec 2024
In reply to Rog Wilko:

Your post is restricted to symphonies so that's why Bach, Wagner, Vivaldi, Mozart miss out. However, I would love to be in a choir belting out Vivaldi's Gloria.

Post edited at 17:02
 Robert Durran 10 Dec 2024
In reply to Sean Kelly:

> Your post is restricted to symphonies so that's why Bach, Wagner, Vivaldi, Mozart miss out. 

Can't be the reason Mozart is missing out; he wrote about 50 of them!

 rlrs 10 Dec 2024
In reply to Andy Clarke:

> Given the brazen abuse of the rules by most posters ...

Bartok Concerto for Orchestra

Plus, unoriginally it seems:

Sibelius 5

Mahler 2

In reply to Rog Wilko:

I don't know why some music resonates with us and some doesn't, it's a funny thing where sometimes you don't get a piece of music or an artist then suddenly it becomes like catnip. Mahler was not loved by his first audiences but now people feel his music. Beethoven was super successful with his audiences but now the symphonies don't spark the same joy. With Beethoven's symphonies I feel the same as you, I do really like the odd numbered ones but I mostly don't love them as much as some symphonies of the romantics you mention including Shostakovich. (Bruckner leaves me cold -- for me he's the "cognoscenti" composer without emotional appeal.) But I really love the slow movement of Beethoven 7 for its tragedy expressed in such a simple way. I find it beautiful and serious on another level, a hard act to follow.

 Sean Kelly 11 Dec 2024
In reply to Robert Durran:

41 to be precise  but really excellent with his operas and Requiem. 

 fimm 11 Dec 2024
In reply to Rog Wilko:

Beethoven 7

Shostakovich 5

Struggled a bit for the last one, but I think I'll go with Schubert 9

 veteye 11 Dec 2024
In reply to George Sandstone:

I think that it depends on how you came to hear Beethoven, Schumann and Bruckner et al's symphonies.

My first symphonies self-found were mono recordings into simulated stereo, of Mozart's 38th and 39th symphonies, and I still have a fondness for them: Although I still sometimes get them mixed up for the same reason.

Berlioz's Symphonie Fantastique I came to with my brothers, watching a series version of The Three Muskateers on television. I loved the series and also the music, used to depict the swift riding of horses through moderately dense woodland.

Then when I was 17, I had some spare money from my birthday, decided to go into Wood's music shop in Huddersfield to buy some classical recording.  New out was a recording of that Berlioz symphony by the Boston Symphony Orchestra, conducted by Seiji Ozawa. I immediately thought of the 3 Muskateers, and bought it. I then listened to it 20-30 times over, and learned of its quirks and foibles, coming to love every last bit of it. I will always love it, and that recording. 

Sadly Seiji Ozawa died recently, but that was a great introduction to a great conductor.

A similar classic recording bought in Glasgow, when going through a low point as a student fixed me on Bruckner's 9th symphony.

OP Rog Wilko 12 Dec 2024
In reply to veteye:

Three Muskateers? Don’t you mean those famous oenophiles The Three Muscateers?

Nice post, though. I share your love of Sym. Fant. It was the first CD purchase of mine, and is as fresh as the first time I heard it. It’s the CBSO version, under Louis Fremaux.

In reply to veteye:

Love this, you are right. Most of my favorites have personal connections from youth as well. Scheherezade I had on a cassette tape that would play on repeat automatically and I used to listen to it to fall asleep and it would play for hours until I woke up in the middle of the night to turn it off. I've only heard it performed live once but it was unforgettable with the Chicago Symphony in all its glory and Robert Chen dazzling on the violin solos.

 m dunn 12 Dec 2024
In reply to Rog Wilko:

Haydn 104 

Mozart 40

Nielsen 2

OP Rog Wilko 12 Dec 2024
In reply to Rog Wilko:

That was fun. I’m starting a chamber music thread next.

 kevin stephens 12 Dec 2024
In reply to Rog Wilko: Concertos may be a better thread. Anyway I’m still working through options for my final choice on this thread

 wert 12 Dec 2024
In reply to kevin stephens:

Yes, concertos. With bonus points for three favourite concertos that don’t include violins, cellos, pianos or clarinets. 

 veteye 12 Dec 2024
In reply to kevin stephens:

To Rog W and Kevin,

Solve both in one thread and answer:-

Small chamber orchestra plus Bach's Brandenberg Concertos.

I suppose also his double violin and the other violin concertos. Then there the various keyboard concertos. So Bach in good part. 

More interesting, which concertos are overplayed on various media?

Probably the biggest culprit is Rach's Piano No 2.

Coming up swiftly is Shostakovich Piano No2.

Fades away to romantic 20th century music.

 kevin stephens 12 Dec 2024
In reply to veteye:

> More interesting, which concertos are overplayed on various media?

> Probably the biggest culprit is Rach's Piano No 2.

> Coming up swiftly is Shostakovich Piano No2.

> Fades away to romantic 20th century music.

you’re forgetting Bruch’s Violin Concerto

 kevin stephens 12 Dec 2024
In reply to wert:

> Yes, concertos. With bonus points for three favourite concertos that don’t include violins, cellos, pianos or clarinets. 

Walton Viola

Rodrigo Guitar

Mozart Horn

OP Rog Wilko 12 Dec 2024
In reply to kevin stephens:

Which one? No 1 I’d guess. He wrote three. 2 & 3 also very good. And a 4th one, with four movements called Scottish Fantasia, and not really a classic concerto structure. Scottish Fantasia was a piece that drew me into classical in my mid tunes (amusing typo, I’ll leave it). It’s very easy to like.

 kevin stephens 12 Dec 2024
In reply to Rog Wilko:

No 1. Remember it as theme tune to Farming Today TV prog around 50-60 years ago

OP Rog Wilko 13 Dec 2024
In reply to kevin stephens:

Well, I never knew that. Seems a surprising choice for such a prog.

> No 1. Remember it as theme tune to Farming Today TV prog around 50-60 years ago

OP Rog Wilko 13 Dec 2024
In reply to kevin stephens:

> Concertos may be a better thread. Anyway I’m still working through options for my final choice on this thread

My top three would be

Rach piano 3

Prokofiev piano 3

Elgar cello (must be Jacqueline)

1
 kevin stephens 13 Dec 2024
In reply to Rog Wilko:

I would agree, esp Dupre despite the random telephone ringing, but I was limited by Wert’s restrictions

 tjekel 24 Dec 2024
In reply to Rog Wilko:

Still with the symphonies,

Bruckner 5 & 8 (incredibly Austrian, don't ask about his behaviour towards women)

Shostakovich 5

 kevin stephens 24 Dec 2024
In reply to tjekel:

I’ve been listening to lots of symphonies recently, prompted by this thread but so far haven’t managed to pick a third choice to follow Beethoven 7 and Mahler 2. Would really like something pastoral but find Beethoven 6 a bit trite ( city dweller having a quick blast around the country before returning to the smoke) compared to the best English pastoral music (much of which inspired by where I grew up), which unfortunately doesn’t seem to be symphonic. I’ll keep searching. A new to me power amplifier arrived today which may put a different slant on things.

Post edited at 13:58
 Andy Clarke 24 Dec 2024
In reply to kevin stephens:

How well do you know Vaughan Williams 5th Symphony? Parts of that are peak RVW mystical English pastoral - eg the beautiful 3rd movement Romanza. (Whereas his 3rd Symphony, actually entitled Pastoral, is more of an elegy for the dead of the first World War, inspired by the landscapes he saw on active service in France.)

 kevin stephens 24 Dec 2024
In reply to Andy Clarke:

I have listened to it recently but I think maybe a poor performance/recording. I will revisit

 Andy Clarke 24 Dec 2024
In reply to kevin stephens:

Have you tried the Hickox/LSO?

 Myfyr Tomos 24 Dec 2024
In reply to Andy Clarke:

The Hickox is the one I'd go for as well, wonderful recording. Some very nice "stocking-fillers" on that disc as well.

 kevin stephens 26 Dec 2024
In reply to Myfyr Tomos:

Thanks for the pointers

Beethoven 7

Mahler 2

Vaughan Williams 5

Each suited to different moods I may have

and the new to me Musical Fidelity power amp sounds great, but maybe that’s for a different thread, or not.

OP Rog Wilko 16 Jan 2025
In reply to Rog Wilko:

Just coming down from the high generated by the Halle playing Mahler 2 at Bridgewater Hall. Orchestra on top form. 15 minute standing ovation. Wonderful soloists and choir. Hall packed.

 Georgert 17 Jan 2025
In reply to Rog Wilko:

Ahhh! Thought I'd made a note of this in my calendar but it somehow completely passed me by! Very jealous. Glad you enjoyed it. They're coming to Kendal in Feb!

OP Rog Wilko 17 Jan 2025
In reply to Georgert:

> Ahhh! Thought I'd made a note of this in my calendar but it somehow completely passed me by! Very jealous. Glad you enjoyed it. They're coming to Kendal in Feb!

Bad luck. But, yes looking forward to the VW concert on Feb 22 in Kendal.

OP Rog Wilko 18 Jan 2025
In reply to Rog Wilko:

Review of Mahler 2 in todays Guardian

In reply to Rog Wilko:

> Review of Mahler 2 in todays Guardian

Glad you enjoyed the concert, Rog. I don’t know if you’ve already seen this - there’s a 2022 Simon Rattle / LSO performance of Mahler 2 on BBC iPlayer. I saw him conduct Mahler 3 at Bridgewater Hall in 1997, after a piece by Adès (whose music I hadn’t heard before – Rattle seems to be a long-term supporter)

My top three symphonies are below. The calmer second half of the Adès has been compared to late Mahler,* the Kurtág has been described as the nearest thing to a Mahler Symphony in our time** & the Penderecki is similar to some of his music in The Shining*** (also on iPlayer).

Adès - Tevot

Kurtág – Stele

Penderecki – Symphony No. 1.

A couple of mountain-related pieces by Thomas Larcher (who climbs in the Austrian Tyrol) might be of interest to some, although only the second one is a symphony (No. 3, “A Line Above the Sky”, in memory of Tom Ballard). The first one is a setting of selected lines from Nan Sheperd’s The Living Mountain for soprano & ensemble:

https://ecmrecords.com/product/thomas-larcher-the-living-mountain-sarah-ari... (3-minute clip, “In September dawns I hardly breathe”).

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2023/jan/13/cbso-gergely-madaras-review-t... (The last reader comment includes a link to the première).

(https://www.ukclimbing.com/news/2016/02/worlds_first_d15_by_tom_ballard-702...: British climber and alpinist Tom Ballard has made the first ascent of what appears to be the hardest dry-tool line to date: A Line Above the Sky [...].)

* https://www.theguardian.com/music/2024/apr/07/halle-ades-review-halle-orche... (last paragraph).

** https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0206qdc Discovering Music: [...] Stephen Johnson [...] examine[s] Kurtag’s work, Scenes from a Novel alongside some of the piano minatures – Jatekok (Games) and [from about 54 minutes in] the orchestral work, Stele.

***https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/culture_bunker/the_shining_book_extract_i...

In reply to Rog Wilko:

> That was fun. I’m starting a chamber music thread next.

Sorry I missed that thread when it was live. Nice to see Schoenberg’s String Trio (which was inspired by dramatic events)* mentioned a couple of times. Although seen as challenging, I found that, of all his late pieces, it was the one that appealed the most on first hearing. My top ten chamber works – mostly 20thC (the last is from 2004) - include late, middle & early Schoenberg:

Schönberg - String Trio
Webern - String Trio (Op 20)
Babbitt - Woodwind Quartet
Saariaho - Nymphéa (string quartet & live electronics)
Schönberg - Second String Quartet
Feldman - Piano and String Quartet
Murail - La Barque Mystique (fl / cl / vl / vlc / pno)
Boulez – Dérive 1 (fl, cl(A), vib, pno, vln, vc)
Schönberg - Verklärte Nacht (string sextet)
Pritchard - Decoy (fl, ob, cl, vn, va, vc, perc, live electronics)
________
* Schoenberg’s own account is read out in this part of a 1970s BBC documentary: youtube.com/watch?v=P8ENYLoqXJ8& (from 1:10).

This film, “String Trio, Los Angeles 1946”, was released in 2024:
youtube.com/watch?v=ezeKdXX6Dxo& (52 mins.): [...] In August of 1946, Schoenberg’s heart stopped beating. While recuperating, he composed a 19-minute trio for violin, viola, and cello—music in which he attempted to portray his close brush with death. [...] The film includes Schoenberg’s children Nuria, Ronald, and Lawrence, relating memories of their father [from 22:30; until then, it mainly covers events before 1946], and concludes with a complete performance of the String Trio [from 28:00, by Movses Pogossian, Kim Kashkashian & Rohan de Saram, in 2011], filmed at Schoenberg’s Los Angeles home. Directed by David Starobin. [...]

( Rohan de Saram died in September, sadly. I saw him a couple of times when he was with the Arditti Quartet – outstanding both when performing with them & when playing solo cello works )

 veteye 04 Feb 2025
In reply to Robin Montaigne:

Is Kandinsky involved in any of this, since they were essentially of the same movement, and of their time?

 loose overhang 06 Feb 2025
In reply to veteye:

Last summer, 2024, I was at the RAH to listen to the Holst Planets suite.  I'd flown from Canada and walked around London for a couple of days.  This summer, I'll go to listen to Roger's and Hammerstein at the theatre royal In Nottingham.

 kevin stephens 06 Feb 2025
In reply to Rog Wilko:

As a matter of interest, which is people’s favourite or most recommended recording of Mahler 2? The great thing about hifi streaming is being able to listen to and compare numerous recordings of the same composition.

 Andy Clarke 06 Feb 2025
In reply to kevin stephens:

> As a matter of interest, which is people’s favourite or most recommended recording of Mahler 2?

Simon Rattle with the CBSO and Janet Baker. But that's probably only because the CBSO is my local orchestra and Sir Simon was something of a hero here.

 kevin stephens 06 Feb 2025
In reply to Andy Clarke:

That’s the one I have been listening too. As a student over 45 years ago I used to sit in cheap seats at CBSO, sometimes Simon was there. However I find the wide variation in volume slightly annoying, particularly singing so would be interested in trying some other recordings too

 kevin stephens 06 Feb 2025
In reply to Andy Clarke:

Try Klaus Tennstedt and LPO with Yvonne Kenny,

I listened this afternoon after a recommendation elsewhere. I found it more relaxed, emotional and less strident than Sir Simon Rattle’s and hence to me more enjoyable.

 veteye 07 Feb 2025
In reply to loose overhang:

Sibelius Academy Symphony Orchestra. Sakari Oramo w Sibelius' The wood nymph" and a new work by Lara Poe. Also RCM symphony orchestra and RCM ch choir. Sunday the 25th of August. I went to that prom, and ~24 others in 2024. More than most years. 

Off to see Alice Sara Ott play nocturnes tonight at the Queen Elizabeth Hall. Her only appearance in this country, as far as I know.

 Andy Clarke 07 Feb 2025
In reply to kevin stephens:

> Try Klaus Tennstedt and LPO with Yvonne Kenny,

Cheers. I'll give it a whirl. It'll have to be in YouTube sound though, sadly. I haven't switched to streaming. Too attached to the little booklets, I guess.

 kevin stephens 07 Feb 2025
In reply to Andy Clarke:

I would be interested to read your thoughts

In reply to veteye:

> Is Kandinsky involved in any of this, since they were essentially of the same movement, and of their time?

Yes, shortly after attending a concert that included works from Schoenberg’s middle, expressionist period,* Kandinsky painted his “Impressions III (Concert)”** (1911) & then wrote to Schoenberg. Kandinsky later invited him to contribute to Der Blaue Reiter*** (The Blue Rider) Almanac (1912) - scores for Schoenberg’s Herzgewächse (Foliage of the Heart) & song settings by his pupils, Berg & Webern, were included in the appendix. It seems unlikely Herzgewächse would’ve been written without Kandinsky’s invitation.

This podcast on the Second Viennese School touches on both the relationship between Kandinsky’s & Schoenberg’s work, & how they saw themselves in relation to the history & development of art & music (unfortunately, the Listen Now option doesn’t work but the download seems to):

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b086t9mw: The Listening Service: [...] [Tom Service] explains how the music developed from Arnold Schoenberg’s early expressionist ventures into atonality, to the cool jewel-like precision of his pupil Anton Webern. In conversation with art historian Lisa Florman [from 15:55], he finds parallels in the painter Wassily Kandinsky’s journey towards abstraction and his theories of shapes and colours. [...]

I’m guessing that you’re interested in some of the art / music from around then?

_____

* The concert opened with the Second String Quartet (Op 10) & Three Piano Pieces (Op 11). Kandinsky apparently saw in their move away from tonality something similar to his own search for a new way to express (in painting) subjective experience.

** https://www.schoenberg.at/index.php/en/schoenberg-kandinsky-blauer-reiter-u... (top of the page).

*** https://www.wassilykandinsky.net/blauereiter.php.

 kevin stephens 14 Feb 2025
In reply to Andy Clarke:

> I have a real soft spot for 20th century British symphonists and two of the highest peaks for me are:

> Vaughan Williams 5

> Simpson 9

> Plus a classic:

> Beethoven 9

The Halle are performing Vaughan Williams 5th Symphony at Sheffield City Hall next Friday (21st). We’ve just booked

 Andy Clarke 14 Feb 2025
In reply to kevin stephens:

> The Halle are performing Vaughan Williams 5th Symphony at Sheffield City Hall next Friday (21st). We’ve just booked

I'm jealous.

OP Rog Wilko 15 Feb 2025
In reply to kevin stephens:

They’re coming to Kendal next Saturday 22 playing an all V.W. Programme : Wasps, Tallis, Lark and 5th. 

 kevin stephens 22 Feb 2025
In reply to Rog Wilko:

> They’re coming to Kendal next Saturday 22 playing an all V.W. Programme : Wasps, Tallis, Lark and 5th. 

The performance last night at Sheffield City Hall was wonderful, you should be in for a treat tonight.  

OP Rog Wilko 22 Feb 2025
In reply to kevin stephens:

Just got home - still buzzing. Lovely evening. Despite tickets now being forty quid the place was full - I think that’s over 700 people. Not bad for a town of 35,000 people.

The first few bars of the Wasps Overture were so sharp and brilliant it had people almost jumping out of their seats, while the Lark had more than a few folk shed a tear and the audience response was ecstatic. 

 kevin stephens 21 Apr 2025
In reply to kevin stephens:

> Thanks for the pointers

> Beethoven 7

> Mahler 2

> Vaughan Williams 5

> Each suited to different moods I may have

> and the new to me Musical Fidelity power amp sounds great, but maybe that’s for a different thread, or not.

Total score 389 on Classic FM hall of fame

 magma 22 Apr 2025
In reply to tjhare1:

nice to see all the Bruckner recommendations (4, 5, 7, 8, 9). think my fave is 7 but will have to check.

and shosta. I've heard his best are divisible by 5

 Sean Kelly 22 Apr 2025
In reply to magma:

> nice to see all the Bruckner recommendations (4, 5, 7, 8, 9). think my fave is 7 but will have to check.

> and shosta. I've heard his best are divisible by 5

Interesteing fact... Bruckner never left his home village throughout his life I'm informed!

 magma 22 Apr 2025
In reply to Sean Kelly:

his music suggests he visited the mountains or at least was influenced by them?

and he had a Vienna period..

 Temp account 22 Apr 2025
In reply to Rog Wilko:

I've only very recently started listening to symphonies, so I couldn't yet pick 3 favourites. I tend to "study" them a bit before going to a concert, the last was Mahler 9, BBC Philharmonic at Bridgewater Hall a couple of weeks ago: mega. t's an absolute monster of an artwork, I'd be surprised if it's not still my favourite in 30 years time, if I last that long of course.

I have heard the Resurrection (at home), which seems the most popular on here, and it was fantastic but I'm a little bit anti-choral (it's that dreadful Beethoven finale which ruins an otherwise great symphony that's scarred me). I love Mahler 1 (that crazy 3rd movement!) and 5 but I don't know the others.

Big fan of Dvorak's New World too. Banger. Ravel didn't write an actual symphony did he? Which seems mad since his works for orchestra are astonishing (a music youtuber I like describes his orchestration as "inhumanely good").

A bit disappointed by Schubert's symphonies, given that he's my favourite composer of chamber music. Even his "Great" isn't that great, sounds like symphony-by-numbers to me: it's his popular entertainer side rather that what I consider the "real" Schubert. I suppose you could count Death and the Maiden arranged by Mahler for string orchestra, which I heard live in Kendal in an incredibly cold sports centre, which was fantastic (the music, not the venue).

I'll have a good sift through this thread, I strongly suspect I'll end up a fan of Schostakowitsch. Seems very popular with young musicians. I'm not young, but I tend to like stuff that appeals to youths (techno, staying up late, swearing, that kind of thing).

 veteye 22 Apr 2025
In reply to Temp account:

The resurrection symphony was on Radio 3 last night, being the pick of the Edinburgh lass for being the recording to go for out of all those made in the last 25 years. I don't think that I'd listened to it for a very long time. I was given an LP (that long ago) of the first two Mahler symphonies, by a friend when at university, and played it loads in the first couple of years out of my degree, but not much since. I really enjoyed it last night.

Post edited at 20:53
 Ratfeeder 22 Apr 2025
In reply to Rog Wilko:

Great thread!

My choices would be:

Mozart 40 & 41; Beethoven 3, 6 & 9; Schubert 8 & 9; Schumann 2; Brahms 4; Bruckner 8 & 9; Mahler 2, 3, 6, 8, 9 & 10; Elgar 2; Sibelius 6 & 7; Shostakovich 4 & 13; Vaughan Williams 5 & 6; Tippett 2.

Not a fan of Dvorak's symphonies - his masterpiece is the Cello Concerto (probably the greatest ever written). Rachmaninov was no symphonist - his masterpieces are the piano concertos, especially 2 & 3.

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 Ratfeeder 22 Apr 2025
In reply to Ratfeeder:

Oops, just realised it was only supposed to be 3!

Mahler 9; Sibelius 7; Vaughan Williams 5.

 Anotherclimber 24 Apr 2025
In reply to Rog Wilko:

Wish I'd been there. However, Mahler 2 is one of my top 3. Bruckner 8 is another but at number one it has to be Shostakovich 11. And here's a heads-up.....its on in Glasgow in June. Already got the tickets. There might be some left.

 veteye 24 Apr 2025
In reply to Anotherclimber:

So you like Mahler, Bruckner and Shostakovich, and presumably some other symphonists. Yet if you have the time can you fill in a little of your character/climbing profile? It would just be good to know a little more about you.

Rob

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