UKC

As the title above.

Anyone need a climbing partner for My Blanc 2024 season? I would like to get some information on what would be involved on a summit push.

A large snow-shovel?

A human body

??? I'm talking about route and permits and if possible without a Guide.

Looking more information about permits and if possible without a Guide.

youtube.com/watch?v=OzAXbbnyHiI&

youtube.com/watch?v=_PslZobHlWk&

Many other videos available with a quick search...

Its a big day, and you'd need to be well acclimatised. 

Its good that you are planning early as you'll need to decide what hut bookings you require. 

The French police now turn anyone away if they look inexperienced, or underequipped. This is why your post got a few dislikes; you look like someone who has had the idea but hasn't done the basic research needed to know what it entails. Someone who should probably hire a guide!!?

Best wishes with it. 

Thank you for the reply Dan, sorry if the post came across the wrong way. I have some experience of climbing /walking at altitude in both Guided and Solo attempts at over 5500 meters. I have also several Scottish winter courses under my belt and independent trips into Scottish winter mountaineering/climbing/with navigation covered. I am in the process of finishing a rescue rope rigging course. The reason for my post here was to try and gain more knowledge about the Alps from you guys of what's involved. I understand altitude and what's involved at that height by taking time. 

Have you bought it?

Thank you Mark.

Apologies for my tongue-in-check response, but you came across in your original post as someone who hasn't done much 'mountaineering', has read a few (classic) books, wants to 'have a go', but hasn't bothered to do any basis research.

No, you don't 'need' permits or a guide, but I suspect the latter would be highly advisable in your case.

Two obvious routes from Chamonix.

1. Normal Route staying at either the Gouter or Tete hut. These get booked up really quickly and it's hard to adjust the dates based on weather closer to the time.

2. If you're fast and fit there's the trois mont route staying at the Cosmique hut which I get the impression always has availability. A quick phonecall a day or two before and your in.

So with a guide, either option is workable as they can get the huts.

I suspect without a guide you're limited to Trois Mont unless you can grab a cancellation.

No worries, I can see now how I came across by my original post. I should have added a little background first. It comes across as someone just jumped in here on the 2nd Jan with big ideas after having a few pints.

At altitude I've managed so far to walk up Elbrus heading up the mountain solo unguided, walked up Kilimanjaro Guided because it's not allowed any other way, I have been at around 3700 in South America.

I would rather attempt the summit unguided if that's allowed, only though once I'm fully prepared and know I am alongside someone else that has been at altitude themselves in freezing conditions. Then if i fail to summit so be it. I have no experience of the French Alps and it's hard to get accurate information on the web about sleeping on the mountain. I don't mind sleeping outdoors if that is allowed on the mountain?? from what I can find on the web so far that is not allowed???

Thank you, all this information now gives me a base to work from.

This is a good start.

https://www.thebmc.co.uk/how-to-climb-mont-blanc

There are increasingly, guidebooks which I cover only a handful of specific routes in the alps. If such a book exists I’m sure it will give you all the info you can glean without actually going out there. The two uncontrollables are how you cope with altitude and mayor of St Gervais if going up thé Goûter route (this also adds a bit of peril with the Grand Couloir). First thing I would do is find a partner and take it from there (which is what you seem to be doing!).

We tried to get into the Gouter last year and they laughed at us! 

The Cosmiques was also full.

Mont Blanc isn't the be all and end all of Alpine Mountaineering. There's no shame in a planB.

Very true, it's the challenge though the highest. My next plan over time is Aconcagua but that's for another day!

Thank you, every little bit helps me get a grip of what's involved in that challenge.

First you need to decide for yourself is it tick, i just want to summit, I'll probably never go to the European alps again. Or I'd like to climb it myself, learn the skills and climb many more alpine peaks.

Yes when you put it that way I'd say it's like a tick, I was wanting to test myself reaching heights in more challenging terrain.

Getting into real technical climbing at altitude would be way above my capabilities at the moment.

You can get more challenging terrain at 300m, MB isn't technical.

Define real technical?

Would I be wrong in thinking that you´re aiming eventually for the Seven Summits? This is maybe the wrong forum for you; better to google Mont Blanc guided tours and to compare them. A suitable tour for you would definitely include maybe a week before the actual ascent attempt for basic glacier skills training, plus at least one of each of an acclimatisation tour and a lower 4000er. (Incidentally, the thread title is kind of misleading; "I want someone to take me up Mont Blanc" would have been more direct and to the point than "Anyone need a partner ...?")

Good luck!

PS it´s also possible to approach this ambition (Mont Blanc) in the following way:

https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/expedition+alpine/experienced_hill_walker...

Much to be recommended!

I wouldn't say to take me up, that's not possible unless each individual has a certain skillset level before going there unguided, more looking is anyone having the same idea as me and possibly looking for a partner to share the load/costs or rope into if on dangerous terrain.

I would be confident on my own ability on ice/snow I could give the summit a real push if got acclimatised over 4-5 days on surrounding mountains. Look maybe I am on the wrong thread, I was only looking if someone with a similar skillset and was looking for a climbing buddy that had similar ideas/goals, there's no harm done.

Yes the 7 summits are always a distant dream for many but because of traffic/costs and the scale of that climb very few get the chance.

I'd prefer to see K2 Basecamp at some stage in the future.

I read that from the OP, I would have done alot of that already which that guy has and have already been at heights over 5500 meters walking up mountains in snow.

Thank you, there seems to be some helpful advice on that thread. If Mt Blanc isn't possible for on one trip I'll likely focus on something else away from the Alps later in year.

I wasn´t meaning to be unhelpful; I just got the feeling that you have no experience in actual mountaineering. Mont Blanc, even by the "easiest" route, is anything but simply walking up a snowy mountain. Quote: "or rope into if on dangerous terrain". You have to know what to do with the rope, to be able to  judge what is dangerous or even has the potential to be so, you have to know how to build a belay on snow, ice and rock, you have to know how to self-arrest with an ice axe, you have to be able to get your partner out of a crevasse and also yourself if he´s not in a position to help you. You have to be able to judge the weather and whether it´s better to turn back or to press on. It´s not just a matter of both tying onto the ends of a rope and everything will be fine; that´s what could end up killing you both, if one happens to slip or fall. Those are the reasons why I wrote: go for a guide.

I know My Blanc isn't real technical at altitude that's why I am talking about it. I'm not talking about climbing the second step on Everest without the ladder.

Have you read above my experience? I can assure you I have used a Ice axe.

Ok you should be fine then, just go ahead.

I likely won't attempt it alone that's why I asked on here was anyone on a similar level looking a partner. If not there's no harm done. 

Forgive me, but "on a similar level" would seem to be having no idea about what skill sets are necessary to climb Mont Blanc independently.

Well I would tend to disagree on that. Are you telling me if 2 people with climbing and rescue experience with ropes, Scottish winter mountaineering under their belts over several seasons/ multiple winter climbing courses completed and winter skills have been at over 5500 meters on crampons in subzero temperatures in your mind have absolutely no chance reaching the summit?

No. But I´m sure it would help all potential partners if you could fill out your profile a bit with mountaineering/alpine routes that you´ve already climbed.

Clearly you're only focused or know anything about 7 summit routes / hills, I can quite confidently say 99.9% here will climb thousands of hills in their lifetime, but never have 7 summits as their goal, or plan around it. And certainly have no idea what technical grade everest is. We mountaineer just for the joy it, the grade, name, height and location is pretty irrelevant. 

PS. Many of the 7 summits are quite dull, there are nicer hills, better routes on neighbouring smaller hills in the same region.

Pps. MB is technical, it just depends which route you pick and your ability relative to it.  

Yesterday you said it wasn’t technical.  Which is it?

I would tend to just ignore him. If he has the claimed experience then he wouldn’t be persisting with inane comments.
p.s. MB by the Gouter isn’t technical at all, but the problems are objective and require a basic knowledge of snow and ice conditions and potential danger signs. There are however very technical routes, e.g. Divine Providence.

What I call not technical is fitting ice screws and gear belaying up a steep ground/vertical faces at altitude each day for about 6-8 hrs always roped in. What I call not technical for my own ability attempting something like that is knowing how to cover steep ground in parts and confident if roped or unroped using gear. Knowing how to help my partner out if one of us did fall into a hole or if I take a slipe I am confident I can stop myself. I'm not looking advice on climbing the North face of the Eiger or anything, I'm only asking is it possible to do by Mont Blanc without a Guide and using a hut if they are booked or is it against the rules that's all. You seem to be getting hung up on my ability pulling everything apart, don't worry I know my limits on a mountain. People on here could say the climbed K2 solo I don't care that's their business.

What ability do you want?

My question wasn’t aimed at you sorry.  I agree that you’re getting pulled apart, which I why I asked exiledscot why on Tuesday he told you MB wasn’t technical, but then told you the next day that it was!

Oh ok, Yes I feel some people on here are just trying to rip into me because they feel I have no experience on mountains in extreme conditions. I simply just wanted to know do you by law need a Guide and do you need a hut. I don't care what others have achieved on here good for them I'm totally confident on my own ability on a mountain. Maybe my posts were not very clear on here from the beginning. Thank you for any help.

People would take you more seriously if you stopped doing this

E

Really I had a look on the internet. I cannot find any information if you are allowed to climb without a Guide or using a hut.

https://www.explore-share.com/blog/mont-blanc-climb-facts/

Yeah people are unnecessarily being dicks. It does come across like you haven't done any basic googling/guidebook reading, which is probably why - but nonetheless, people are being dicks. 

1. You don't need a guide or a permit. It's up to you to decide whether you think one is appropriate. There is a bit of a filter on ability, determined by the local police - I don't know the details of this, but google will tell you.

2. You need a hut booking, it's illegal to bivouac on the main Mt Plan routes. As others have alluded to on this thread but not actually said, the huts are generally busy and bookings can be tricky to get.

Ok, thank you. I am in the middle of finishing a rope rescue rigging course and I will now do rescue techniques for glacier travel, that bit I've taken onboard from others on here. Thank you for the information about the Guide. It's very hard to get accurate information on that part. It now also looks like the hut is going to be my main stumbling block from day one.

On my own ability I am 100% confident in myself that if I get properly acclimatised for 4 - 5 days I could give the summit a real push. Would I be able to reach it? that's not definite. If I do manage to get a partner with a similar goal to mine and I then fail because of my technical ability or fitness which some believe I don't have enough of for that mountain, I'll hold my hand up and admit they were right.

Both, depends on your route of course. 

Hi MTColD 

Good luck with your plan to ascend Mont Blanc and most folks go via the Gouter Route. However even though the Gouter is technically a straightforward route in good conditions, it should not be underestimated due to the high altitude, snow conditions and the spectacular but very exposed Bosses Ridge which leads to the summit!

The only advice I can offer is many teams (I did!) book into the excellent Tete Rousse Hut and have a leisurely, relaxed start on Day 1 and take the Belvedere cable car from Les Houches early afternoon and then hop on the MB tramway train to the Eagles Nest before a short and scenic 2 to 3 hour walk to the Tete Rousse with it's amazing views to Aiguille Bionnassay.

My partner and I were going ok (having acclimatised on a few lower peaks and then the Gran Paradiso the week before) and we stayed overnight and left the hut at around 2am. From the hut it took us about 2 to 3 hours in the dark to cross the Grand Couloir and then steep loose scramble with some fixed cables up to the Gouter Hut. From there we were on the summit by about 8.30am and then back down at the Tete Rousse for just after 12 noon, before a leisurely stroll back down to the Eagles Nest to catch a train then cable car back down.

Incidentally everyone we spoke to said the Tete Rousse is a far nicer hut than the Gouter (if you can even book a bed!) to stay in as the Gouter often has a lot of unacclimatised people with thumping headaches/throwing up et al... 

As a shameless plug you can see a short vid showing all the main landmarks + features here: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRBF_y3URI0&t=68s

Bon chance and hope this helps! 

Dave

Camping / bivouac by the Gouter Hut is not allowed but there is an option to camp by the Tete Rousse Hut:

https://montblanc.ffcam.fr/GB_refuge-home-2.html

    A more technical route would be the Trois Monts - more likely to be space at the Cosmiques Hut. If you have the knowledge / skills and equipment it is possible to bivouac near the Cosmiques Hut between sunset and sunrise. You would probably be leaving your bivouac site around 1 am. An expensive option, but you can leave your bivouac gear here and collect it a day or two later rather than carry it with you.

Thank you, this was the type of information I was looking for to help. I think I came across wrong on here at the beginning. A lot also seemed to focus in on my own personal ability and it was never going to please them no matter what I said I was confident at. 

You can read the web and books but it's also places like on here that you find out the vital little nuggets on what's involved between travel to and rules of the mountain and permits.

I know that some Guides don't like to see people going solo on their so called hill, I had a small problem on Elbrus around them. I can understand why they get angry but if you don't need a Guide that's all I want to know. After that it's up to me to prepare for what's ahead, that's the challenge I prefer.

Has this changed recently?

I thought it wasn't allowed at either hut on the normal route.

It says it's prohibited here: https://www.summitpost.org/t-te-rousse-hut/275980

Or is it a bit like Cosmique where it's technically not allowed but people do it anyway and it's not policed.

Or do you mean the tents that can be booked at Tete Rousse base camp.

Would love a clear answer to this, as I discounted the gouter route as I could never get a booking and believed camping with my own tent wouldn't be tolerated.

The guides there don't care if you're solo or not. I'd advise you not to solo, as the questions you're asking suggest you don't have the experience or expertise. 

I'm not going solo Mont Blanc and never said I was going to. You know nothing about my technical climbing capabilities in subsero winter conditions or performance at altitude on little food. I have already said I have taken the glacier travel which is involved for this mountain onboard.

You can book to camp at Tete Rousse, but not bivouac 

A person technically competent on an alpine peak wouldn't have asked any of the questions you have. 

PS..  little food? Not sure on the relevance, you can do MB with missing a single meal. 

Look one minute you are telling me it's a technical climb, now it depends on the route people take because you got pulled on it. 

You also seem to believe you know what I am capable of by guessing. I had a look you have quite a impressive CV typed up for everyone to read on the forum. 

Look from day one you have just tried to be a smartass with me and you know better it seems. You are likely a long-term member on here with a bunch of buddies looking likes thinking you know everything and I know nothing. If you couldn't answer me if a Guide was needed or a hut then it's clear you just want pointless arguments with me wasting both our time.

The vast majority of his replies were very helpful and respectful? What are you on about.

You can't get arsey with people trying to help you and not expect anything back.

He keeps questioning my ability because he's guessing by a few words I wrote on a climbing forum, he then started talking about self arrest with a ice axe, body belaying and ropes as if I know nothing about mountaineering or climbing probably hoping to box me in a corner and see if I knew what he meant. Then on top of that then told me it's a technical climb to the summit which is not totally true but he has now changed it saying depends which route people take. It's not a technical climb on all routes that is well documented for everyone.

Good luck with trying to defend this one

Here are all the possible routes up Mont Blanc, with their grade.

https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/mont_blanc-2000/

I think you're reading into an online forum far too much mate. If you don't like his assessment of your ability then don't engage. 

Also when did he mention body-belay or ropes?? Either you're a clever bot or you can't read.

As for the technical side, he did make it quite clear that Mt Blanc *can* be a technical climb if you choose a technical route, as is the same with most peaks.

I didn't ask anyone to judge my ability on here. I am asking if anyone has a similar goal to myself and do they know the rules for certain around the mountain that's all. Maybe I didn't make that completely clear at the beginning. What anyone thinks of my climbing ability isn't answering the question or will change my performance on a mountain. 

But I believe you can't bring your own tent, you have to use theirs. Unless I miss understood the tetes website.

If you are looking for a partner for an ascent then it would help if you listed your relevant experience in similar Alpine terrain.  The number one quality I look for in a partner whether it’s for alpine terrain, Scottish winter, ice or rock climbing is that they are a safe pair of hands. My life may depend on it.   A safe pair of hands extends beyond technical skills, it’s also about attitude, do they listen, what’s their approach to risk, do they push on 100% confident or know when to call it and back off, how do they react under pressure?
 

Often there may be a difference in ability and experience between two partners.  That’s ok. A suitable objective is chosen by both, knowing all the above.  

I am never 100% confident in my skills.  It’s why I always practice as each winter or alpine season comes round.  I know the mountains can kick my arse if I get too cocky.

You may think people are being disrespectful but they are just trying to get under the few words you’ve written here.  No one wants to be tied in to a rope with a person whom they don’t have a measure of. Guides are an exception here, which is why their training is so rigorous. But most of us don’t want the biggest risk in the mountains to be the unknown partner on the end of the rope.

Ok, I have gone back up the thread my apologies, he didn't say that it was some else mentioned belaying and ice axe arrests to me. If he comes back on I will apologise to him here I was totally wrong. The thread has gone way off into questioning my own ability on a mountain. I confused him with someone else. I don't want arguments with anyone on here just a focus on few simple questions I wanted answered that's all.

For that I truly apologise to him and didn't mean to be smart.

And you think I'm just going to jump onto a rope with someone without climbing and meeting them first? Before such a trip so we can suss each other out? That's what I am saying you are judging me and you know nothing about me.

Sure any lunatic on here could type something on the web but it doesn't necessarily make it true. 

In what way have I judged you?  

We can only go by what we see you post here.  I’m getting a sense of your approach to conflict, from your posts, but maybe this is your Internet style and doesn’t reflect you in real life.  

Take a breath and paint of picture of yourself and your approach to the mountains beyond Elbrus and Kilimanjaro.  Any potential partner will want to get a sense of you, before deciding to meet up, with the intention of climbing Mont Blanc.

There's also the Pope Route, from the Italian side, starting in Val Veny. It's a real slog, as you start from the valley floor, however a more purist way up Mont Blanc, without using the cable car for the Trois Mont Route nor the train for the Gouter Route.

It used to be less popular due to the length, but with increasing numbers climbing Mt Blanc, it too is getting busier, hence getting a booking at the Gonella Refuge could prove tricky, though no doubt still easier than at the Gouter Hut.

It's probably objectively safer too, than risking rockfall crossing the Grand Couloir or the seracs on Mt Maudit.

Not you, but there's that many jumping in just focused on me and not the questions.

Of course nobody is just going to jump on a rope with a complete stranger without a bit time together sussing each other out. 

There are people genuinely giving me advice on here and others just trying to be smart about ice axe arrests and belaying to create pointless arguments about my own ability in winter conditions. I've already been very clear what I have done around those skills.

Not to be rude, but you really haven't been clear. I don't have any interest in commenting on your abilities but you ask questions that a beginner would ask then get annoyed when people assume you don't know intermediate skills.

Ok fair enough, What question did I ask that came across to you that I had no winter mountaineering/climbing/skills or experience of being at altitude before?

You don't or do need either, it's entirely down to experience, fitness and route choice. There is no definitive answer, it's alpine mountaineering. But, in simple terms if you feel you need to ask a question related to 'needing a guide', 'technical difficulties' etc then it means you likely don't have the experience to do it independently.

Yeah, trade route is grade 1 Scottish ish, but it's not to be underestimated. 3 summits can be steep at times nearer grade II for a short section on Maudit, if you've experience of leading grade II/III then this won't phase you, you'll happily solo/move together straight through it. Crevasse or serac fall risk aren't to be forgotten either, people have been killed. Then there's dodging whistling death on the approach to gouter hut.

You're hoping for definitive answers, when the answers in the alps are always, perhaps, maybe, how long is a piece of string.... 

Thank you, the question about the Guide was never about a safety net for me. The question if you go back up the thread once I was clear with everyone was do you need a Guide because of rules for that mountain. I made this very clear way back up the thread but people kept poking at me then that I had very basic experience for that trip.

I asked because they blocked me walking up Kilimanjaro without a Guide because of certain rules for the mountain.

Kili guides aren't actual mountain guides (IFMGA),they are just a local stipulation to increase local employment

Basic experience, well yes you have. Most who progress to alpine peaks will see it as an extension of Scottish mountaineering with dozens, if not hundreds of winter days under their belt. They'll likely then accrue experience on lower shorter alpine routes. 

Yes and you cannot walk up that mountain unless you pay for a package trip. The guy I followed was introduced to me as my Guide/leader I can't remember the exact title, he called the shots on the mountain in our group.

And here we go again about Scotland, how do you know I don't have dozens or hundreds of days under my belt?

Because you haven't. If you were mountaineering overseas as an extension of uk experience, you wouldn't be instantly referencing 3 hills that are part of the 7 summits and nothing else. 

You'd actually get more help, if you just said you've little experience, aiming for 7 summits, what do people recommend etc.. 

I haven't been winter mountaineering in Scotland you claim because I mentioned 3 hills you say linked to the seven summit's.

It's all coming out now so you admit you haven't a clue now if I was in Scotland or not, with multiple winter mountaineering courses under my belt plus going out independently over different seasons. I think you just want argue making stuff up now to get a rise.

So you are making stuff up to create arguments?

Don't ask for help on forums if you can't deal with the slightest bit of pushback.

People making stuff up replying to me clearly to create arguments? Why do you think I react to that? I have not said one thing on here that's made up about my experience on mountains.

I'm not making anything up etc.. how Scottish winter days have you done then? You tell us, no one is going to want to tie onto a rope in the Alps with people who are either total novices, bluffers or blaggers, it's lethal. You have to understand why there is scepticism. 

This is becoming a bit of a car crash now.  In his 3rd post he literally says he has “several Scottish winter courses under my belt and independent trips into Scottish winter mountaineering/climbing/with navigation covered”.  You might not believe him but it’s not really fair to say he’s talked about 3 seven summit hills and nothing else.  He’s explicitly said he’s not primarily focussed on the seven summits.  
 

He’s been given some good advice on this thread but it’s been drowned out by a pile on because a few people apparently don’t like the way he phrased his initial question.  The replies were patronising and disrespectful from the start.  I’m still trying to work out the “joke”about the human body.

As an aside, surely the seven summits is either Elbrus or Mt Blanc, rather than both.

Of course. 

You are making stuff up though clearly.

I'll be as honest as I can, I believe I have minimum a 70 full Scottish winter mountaineering days under my belt. I could be touching over 80 but I don't keep track of them all. Ranging from different things, avalanche training, climbing courses, independent, walking, independent climbing and a few pints to finish.

As I said you are clearly making stuff up to create arguments on this thread.

Thank you.

Thought it sounded like a bot post so made a joke, wasn't meant to be anything more than that.

I believe that absolutely. It´s the gaps that are bothering people; "winter mountaineering" in Scotland can mean anything from a hiked traverse of a peak to the hardest ice/mixed climbs, but you´ve refused all invitations to be more specific. I think if you would name just a couple of winter climbs you´ve done it would put a lot of people´s minds at rest.

Scottish winter climbing/mountaineering can be hard as nails, and just as potentially life-threatening as the Alps. No way would I belittle its seriousness, but there are things on and around Mont Blanc for which it can never prepare you, starting with stuff like glaciers and crevasses. The snow/ice types can also be completely different, with different skills needed than the specifically Scottish ones (no frozen turf on Mont Blanc ...).

This sub-zero thing of yours: sub-zero is the comfort zone on the 4000ers; you wouldn´t even consider leaving the hut in the morning if the temperature was higher than quite a few degrees below zero. It´s just one of the things that an experienced mountaineer wouldn´t even bother mentioning, and for me one of the pointers that it´s possible you´re rushing in to try get the tick without being fully aware of what could await you, should things develop unexpectedly on the day. And they do, with clockwork regularity.

It´s not a personal thing going on here; Mont Blanc is easily the historically most dangerous mountain in the world, with an estimated 6000 - 8000 deaths total. The average per year is variously quoted at 40-100. At heart I suppose we´re all in our differing fashions just trying to prevent that statistic from rising next year.

It just seems to be bothering you to be honest, yes I've experienced harsh Scottish winter.

Maybe you are coming to Mont Blanc with me? you seem extremely concerned about my ice axe skills.

I might not trust your CV after all this.

You´re dodging the question again: can you climb?

What question? You keep doing these big rants. 

What do you want to know exactly?

Yes I can climb enough for Mont Blanc if the altitude doesn't buckle me. Am I a very technical climber no I am not and never claimed I ever was, why?

Does that make you happy?

What exactly have you climbed in Scotland? was the question.

Doesn´t matter though, signing off now and good luck.

I don't think you realise what you've just done!!!

I've just spent that last hour looking at accommodation in Courmayeur (which for some reason is way more expensive than Chamonix, or I'm just trying to book too earlier so the choice is limited).

Anyway, it may be for the birds, as I'm probably not tough enough for this route. Although Maybe.

16km and 3300m of elevation gain. Hmmmmm. That might beat me up a bit.

Although,10km of it is below 3000m and the first 9km of it looks like a really easy 1/10 slope. So that bit doesn't count surely. 

In fact it's fairly gentle all the way up. 

Hmmmm.

Mainly around the Cairngorms and a few of the lesser gullys on Ben when climbing. I also have managed a few of the ridges on Ben and been on the Cuillin ridge at winter but only for around 2 days. It's not the high end stuff like some of you folks but enough that you need to understand climbing and ropes.

Well, that changes things a bit. I wish you´d said that in your first post; it´s sometimes hard to judge new members here, especially since we get the Mont Blanc question on average once a week or so, and you were kind of secretive about what you´d actually climbed. It sounded like you were just after the tick, but you are an actual climber, so welcome!

Wishing you all the best and much success, and I´m sure you´ll find that this can actually be a very pleasant forum to be on.

(PS and the vast majority of us are not high end, me definitely included!)

No worries, thank you. I'm not really into the high end technical routes climbing in Scottish winter because that's where I know my limits stop. I have not trained enough to reach that level and to put myself in that position which can be very serious at times. I guess maybe that's why I came across to you guys like I was trying to hide something which it was never intended.

I'll admit, I felt I was getting hammered at stages from all angles on here and I reacted in a way which didn't help the overall situation for replies.

I know deep down all you guys are good and very passionate about climbing. You do probably get alot of new members asking questions which seem stupid and silly and I can see why people get frustrated at times, alot gets lost in the thread and it sprills out of control way off the points first talked about. I just want to say thank you everyone for the advice and no harm done, enjoy your climbing in 24,

Definitely! xD

It´s been on my list for a while, this film was my inspiration (English subtitles available):

youtube.com/watch?v=ubuy2dcF1og&

That was my interpretation too

"16km and 3300m of elevation gain. Hmmmmm. That might beat me up a bit"

That's quite a push alright.

I presume that's the final summit push with no stop? How many days does that trip that you were looking at allow for the whole acclimatisation period? 

Three days.

1. Road to hut

2. Hut to summit and back to hut

3. Hut to road

That isn't so bad, it's similar to several summits around Saas-Fee, albeit less km meaning steeper approaches. 

Yes but are you already acclimatised on other mountains at height first? That seems a big push all at once, I prefer to climb high and sleep low to build strength better.

Yes but are you already acclimatised on other mountains at height first? That seems a big push all at once, I'd prefer to climb high and sleep low over more days to build strength better.

If I were planning it, I´d make sure that I´d done maybe one 4000er and preferably another say 4300er in preparation beforehand, so maybe a week´s preparation plus a week waiting for a good weather forecast in Courmayeur?

I find I need a tad longer than most to acclimatise so I'd be looking at spending 2 weeks there. 

Gives some flexibility with weather for the summit also.

I'd probably do a summit, then maybe a night at cosmique. 

I've always wanted to do the arete there so could be a good acclimatisation opportunity.

I'd be looking for opportunities to sleep high, easy way of getting time up there. 

Ok, that's why I wasn't sure. I think if I was attempting that Idea myself I'd allow myself 4 days on the main mountain after doing your idea on another mountain. I'd pay for 2 nights at the hut to build my strength sleeping at that height. I'd use the extra day walking towards the summit on first day and go back to the hut for another rest. How far to the summit from that hut?

I think if I was attempting your idea I'd spend an extra day in that hut. You could climb higher the first day.

The Gonella hut is at 3071m, so you´re looking at 1800m of ascent from there to the summit. The climb to the hut itself looks tricky, potentially dangerous and long, so I´d be glad to get there and relax before getting as much sleep as possible before a very early start the next day (long descent after the summit). If you´ve acclimatised well before the attempt, then no need to push higher than the hut on the first day, you´ll be fine, assuming fitness is up to scratch.

If you really want to do MB, then the Gouter Route (for all its sins) must be the default option.  Not least because you just have to follow a track.  An obscure route like the Gonella ups the ante considerably.

You could try to book well in advance or take a punt nearer the time (Gouter or Tete Rousse), but there are no guarantees.

That said, if next year is especially hot due to El Nino, then don't be surprised if MB is closed.  It was closed for much of the summer of 2022. 

Finally, there is the unspeakable Grand Couloir.  There are about four deaths per year there and there may be no safe time to cross it.  It's Russian roulette.

Like all mountaineering objectives, you have to decide how much time, money, effort and risk taking to put into it.

Thank you, 

"Finally, there is the unspeakable Grand Couloir.  There are about four deaths per year there and there may be no safe time to cross it.  It's Russian roulette"

Yes I've read about it and watched a few videos of the rocks. I'd attempt that if on the mountain at the coldest time of the day. Guide or no Guide we all know nobody can control the rocks, I agree its a roll of the dice but I understand all mountains carry certain risks the more you push things outside the comfort zone.

My idea of 2 nights gives you options with weather meeting other climbers coming down and would help build the strength for me, that's a long push the whole way I believe to give myself the best chance to summit and be safe. Others will know their own level and capabilities but I think 1 night would not be enough for me. 

Above is only how I would attempt the summit but everyone will have their own plan and know what's best for them.

If you’re staying on the French side you can get the bus across to Italy and then come down to the French side from the summit, which would be quicker and would make for a nice traverse. 

I've started watching your video it's interesting, I can see already at the beginning parts look pretty exposed in areas.

Is this the route you guys are talking about doing in 3 days gaining over 3000 meters in one push?

This thread is way, WAY past its sell-by date

Thank you for your attention