/ Alternative to reslinging C4 cams

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John Kelly 14 Jan 2020

Rather than reslinging can you just clip a quick draw into the loop ?

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spenser 14 Jan 2020
In reply to John Kelly:

This article about the width of slings on Camalots suggests not:

https://eu.blackdiamondequipment.com/en_GB/experience-story?cid=qc-labreslinging-camalots-and-c3s

The load is a lot better spread out with the nylong slings rather than a narrow dyneema sling or a karabiner.

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mrphilipoldham 14 Jan 2020
In reply to spenser:

Would a short sling looped (not larks footed or anything) round the loop and secured by a karabiner be safe? Faffy, but possible.

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Wil Treasure 14 Jan 2020
In reply to John Kelly:

You clip the wires on nuts, it's not so different. It's possible that it'll be weaker than the double layered slings they use (see link above) but it will be running round a smooth and relatively large radius. It's not going to be catastrophically weak.

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In reply to spenser:

Interestingly they don't really differentiate between the cam failing and the sling failing. I can see how the cable could cut the sling by pinching it, but it's not going to cut a carabiner. I wonder how much weaker a kinked cable would be with a carabiner. 

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John Kelly 14 Jan 2020
In reply to spenser:

I've read that a few times and I can't see any reference to clipping a draw into the loop.

emailed BD for their comments but got nothing back

Post edited at 19:55
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John Kelly 14 Jan 2020
In reply to mrphilipoldham:

> Would a short sling looped (not larks footed or anything) round the loop and secured by a karabiner be safe? Faffy, but possible.

Think that would risk the 'pinching' and cutting problem

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mrphilipoldham 14 Jan 2020
In reply to John Kelly:

Blimey, didn’t realise the loops pinched that much!

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PaulJepson 14 Jan 2020
In reply to John Kelly:

I'm sure I've seen it somewhere that it reduces the cam strength by a couple of KNs. I've seen people (fools, obviously) clip draws into the thumb loop rather than the sling to extend them. 

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James Mann 14 Jan 2020
In reply to John Kelly:

Clipping the thumb loop is common practice at times  when aiding; not dangerous as body weight only. I would say that it isn’t worth not getting BD cams reslung. I sent 20 cams of varying age to BD in Utah about three weeks ago and received them back yesterday. All slings have been replaced, damaged wires repaired. This is for the cost of postage to the US. There is no cost for the work or for the return postage. An amazing service!

james

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Jamie Wakeham 14 Jan 2020
In reply to James Mann:

Agreed: why do something that's not known to be safe (I can't say this is dangerous, but I can't help thinking that we'd know about it as a technique if it was safe) when BD will resling them for free?

Admittedly it took me ages to get them to reply with a returns authorisation... but once I had that, the process of sending them off and getting then back was seamless and impressively fast.

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deepsoup 14 Jan 2020
In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

>  I can see how the cable could cut the sling by pinching it, but it's not going to cut a carabiner.

As I understand it, the problem that was solved with the double-wrap of tape on the sling was actually the opposite - it was the steel cable that was breaking as a result of being 'kinked', not the sling.  Either way though, that cable is not going to break as a result of being loaded by a carabiner.

I still have a few of the original Camalots squirrelled away, btw..  The design was different (a double stem like a DMM 4cu), but they never had slings on.  Some people attached them to a sling with a maillon, most of us just clipped them with a quickdraw.  Here we go..  the bottom one here: https://gripped.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Camalot.jpg

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In reply to deepsoup:

The article doesn't specify though, it just seems to suggest the cams are bent into a V before the sling fails due to being pinched, and that is why you shouldn't resling them yourself. It doesn't say anywhere that the bent V in the cable weakens the cable. 

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deepsoup 15 Jan 2020
In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

I'm sure I remember reading that somewhere, can't for the life of me remember where though sorry.  I'm about 80% sure I'm not just imagining it..

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spenser 15 Jan 2020
In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

I've no idea how much weaker the cable would be if it had been kinked but I don't see any point in risking  it, particularly not when you can get the sling replaced by BD for the price of shipping.

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PaulJepson 15 Jan 2020
In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

I've seen pictures of the testing before. It's not the sling that fails, it's the thumb-loop. The steel cable is pinched by the sling and snaps. The sling stays intact. 

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deepsoup 15 Jan 2020
In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

Oopsie..  Looking at that article again, it looks like I am completely wrong.  D'Oh!
I think I was mis-remembering and conflating the two pictures there - kinked wire cuts single layer sling, double layer sling breaks wire.

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Jon Read 15 Jan 2020
In reply to deepsoup:

Do BD resling the older version (middle one in that picture), or chuck them in the bin?

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deepsoup 15 Jan 2020
In reply to Jon Read:

I have no idea I'm afraid.  I'm sure someone on here must have asked them though.

I know EU cam manufacturers won't re-sling cams past their arbitrary sell-by date, or cams made by other manufacturers, because the regulations around PPE mean they can't offer a warranty on the sling alone.  (As opposed to accepting some responsibility for the cam itself still being sound as well.) 

Also Wild Country will no longer re-sling their cams even if they're basically brand new, because they're not a proper gear company any more.

If you were thinking of sending your cams off on holiday to the USA anyway though, there are companies over there happy to re-sling any cam for a fairly modest fee.  Those PPE regulations might be a reason not to do it for professional use or club kit, but with your personal gear it's your rules.  The service is probably cheaper than the postage.
eg: https://www.mtntools.com/cat/rclimb/cams/mt_camresling.htm

They'll even sling some bits & bobs that never had a sling in the first place.  Brand new dyneema sling on your lucky antique MOAC anyone?

Post edited at 11:38
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Jamie Wakeham 15 Jan 2020
In reply to Jon Read:

Yes - I've had solid metal loop type Camalots done recently.

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James Mann 15 Jan 2020
In reply to Jon Read:

Yes. Had a load of these reslung. 

James

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Jon Read 15 Jan 2020

Thanks all three of you!

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galpinos 15 Jan 2020
In reply to John Kelly:

As they can be re-slung for only the cost of postage, my question would be, why?

However, to answer the OP, I would imagine you would survive most falls, though the contact area will be smaller I would imagine a decent fall will deform the loop to the extent you'd be unlikely to trust it in the future.

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John Kelly 15 Jan 2020
In reply to galpinos:

> As they can be re-slung for only the cost of postage, my question would be, why?

Apparently it takes 3 weeks at best

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galpinos 16 Jan 2020
In reply to John Kelly:

> Apparently it takes 3 weeks at best

You need to find a climbing partner with a decent rack for the next three weeks then! I would say it's still worth the inconvenience.

(Shouldn't you be sleeping/celebrating your Spine win?)

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TonyB 16 Jan 2020
In reply to Jon Read:

BD slung my cams last year (just for the cost of postage to the US, they paid postage back). This included some bought in the late 90's that look just like your middle one. Of course postage was more to the US as they're so heavy

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DaveHK 16 Jan 2020
In reply to John Kelly:

26 posts in and no mention of Chris Tan Death Products!

http://www.kakibusok.plus.com/Equipment/ReslingCams/Resling.htm

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John Kelly 16 Jan 2020
In reply to galpinos:

I'm doing a BGR to warm down

Post edited at 16:39
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