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Hi
went in 2 shops on Saturday.
First one I bought 2 pieses of kit and asked for BMC discount and was told they do not give it on seconds, total price £14.49, I did not argue but as they would have posted FOC and these are bought in seconds so I saaume they make the same if not more profit, why not.
Second shop, I bought some Scarpa Boot cream £6, asked for BMC and another customer ( assistants buddy who was killing time?) sniggered, which was bloody rude and the assitant said they do not do it on items under £5, yes right, it`s £6 so your point is, and I would have to have an up to date card and he made quite a point of checking my card.
If they do BMC either do it with good grace and make the rules clear, or don`t bother.
Cheers Beds
went in 2 shops on Saturday.
First one I bought 2 pieses of kit and asked for BMC discount and was told they do not give it on seconds, total price £14.49, I did not argue but as they would have posted FOC and these are bought in seconds so I saaume they make the same if not more profit, why not.
Second shop, I bought some Scarpa Boot cream £6, asked for BMC and another customer ( assistants buddy who was killing time?) sniggered, which was bloody rude and the assitant said they do not do it on items under £5, yes right, it`s £6 so your point is, and I would have to have an up to date card and he made quite a point of checking my card.
If they do BMC either do it with good grace and make the rules clear, or don`t bother.
Cheers Beds
In reply to J1234:
If there was an equivalent organisation for those whose hobby was kipping, would you offer a 10% reduction in your prices? [on production of a valid membership card, naturally]
If there was an equivalent organisation for those whose hobby was kipping, would you offer a 10% reduction in your prices? [on production of a valid membership card, naturally]
In reply to J1234: You didn't mention that your card is for the Bed Manufacturers' Club...
In reply to 999thAndy:
If I advertised it on the BMC litereature and website yes, what is your point.
If I advertised it on the BMC litereature and website yes, what is your point.
In reply to J1234:
More to the point. Why is it only 10%?
My regional orienteering membership gets me 15%. My local scout group has negotiatied 20%. Surely a national body such as the BMC could do a little better?
More to the point. Why is it only 10%?
My regional orienteering membership gets me 15%. My local scout group has negotiatied 20%. Surely a national body such as the BMC could do a little better?
In reply to J1234: I think I'd've been inclined to tell the 'assistant' that you didn't want to buy it afterall and gone somewhere else for it. I can't abide rude people, whichever 'side of the counter' I am on.
In reply to Eric the Red:
That`s a fair point, but not my main beef. 5,10,15,20% either do it or don`t. IMHO they should just drop their prices 10% and have done with it as neraly everyone seems to have some code or card.
That`s a fair point, but not my main beef. 5,10,15,20% either do it or don`t. IMHO they should just drop their prices 10% and have done with it as neraly everyone seems to have some code or card.
In reply to TN:
Nearly did. As a retailer I have put up a number of threads defending shops and their staff, as I can and do see it from both sides. They are lucky I am not naming and shaming.
Nearly did. As a retailer I have put up a number of threads defending shops and their staff, as I can and do see it from both sides. They are lucky I am not naming and shaming.
In reply to J1234:
I was curious; a person in retail posts slagging another (also in retail) for a lack of grace when asked for a discount. So I wondered how you'd react if the boot was on the other foot, so to speak.
I was curious; a person in retail posts slagging another (also in retail) for a lack of grace when asked for a discount. So I wondered how you'd react if the boot was on the other foot, so to speak.
In reply to 999thAndy:
They were not asked for a discount, they offered/promised it, via the BMC scheme.
If someone asks me for a discount I treat them politley and sometimes I do sometimes I don`t, after 35 years in retail I think I know about discounting.
They were not asked for a discount, they offered/promised it, via the BMC scheme.
If someone asks me for a discount I treat them politley and sometimes I do sometimes I don`t, after 35 years in retail I think I know about discounting.
In reply to J1234:
Is that eveyone you know or everyone that shops in outdoor shops?
Or are you just speculating?
You as a retailer should know that 10% off at retail is more like 30% off your actual profit and that is probably not sustainable on every sale in any retailer.
> (In reply to Eric the Red)
> That`s a fair point, but not my main beef. 5,10,15,20% either do it or don`t. IMHO they should just drop their prices 10% and have done with it as neraly everyone seems to have some code or card.
> That`s a fair point, but not my main beef. 5,10,15,20% either do it or don`t. IMHO they should just drop their prices 10% and have done with it as neraly everyone seems to have some code or card.
Is that eveyone you know or everyone that shops in outdoor shops?
Or are you just speculating?
You as a retailer should know that 10% off at retail is more like 30% off your actual profit and that is probably not sustainable on every sale in any retailer.
In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut:
Fair point.
Fair point.
In reply to Eric the Red:
You'll be lucky to get any discount at all soon and in reality outdoor gear has been massively discounted for the last 15 years. I
Unfortunately that's all about to change.
The retail prices you see at the moment are discounted compared to the prices you are going to see in a few months time.
The wisdom is, buy now.
> (In reply to bedspring)
> My regional orienteering membership gets me 15%. My local scout group has negotiatied 20%. Surely a national body such as the BMC could do a little better?
You'll be lucky to get any discount at all soon and in reality outdoor gear has been massively discounted for the last 15 years. I
Unfortunately that's all about to change.
The retail prices you see at the moment are discounted compared to the prices you are going to see in a few months time.
The wisdom is, buy now.
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
What do you know that we don't Mick? Is it because of the weak pound and the fact that most of the imports are from China?
In the photography world most prices have gone up on new lenses and the like ~15-20%. Are we looking at similar rises in outdoor equipment?
What do you know that we don't Mick? Is it because of the weak pound and the fact that most of the imports are from China?
In the photography world most prices have gone up on new lenses and the like ~15-20%. Are we looking at similar rises in outdoor equipment?
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
In my opinion outdoor gear, especially clothing is massively overpriced.
Goretex, when it was first around was a new fabric. Both breathable and waterproof. Amazing! It was expensive, like any product of r and d as companies need to cover their costs. It had few competitors.
However, it has not ever gone down in price. How can anyone justify £300 for a jacket made of a material with so called "technology" that is 20 years old. Especially now there are equally good and better competing fabrics. It's the equivalent of Sony still trying to sell a walkman for £200.
Specialist items such as rock climbing gear I expect to be expensive as the market is small. But general outdoor clothing is massively and ridiculously overpriced, even with a %20 discount.
In my opinion outdoor gear, especially clothing is massively overpriced.
Goretex, when it was first around was a new fabric. Both breathable and waterproof. Amazing! It was expensive, like any product of r and d as companies need to cover their costs. It had few competitors.
However, it has not ever gone down in price. How can anyone justify £300 for a jacket made of a material with so called "technology" that is 20 years old. Especially now there are equally good and better competing fabrics. It's the equivalent of Sony still trying to sell a walkman for £200.
Specialist items such as rock climbing gear I expect to be expensive as the market is small. But general outdoor clothing is massively and ridiculously overpriced, even with a %20 discount.
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
Come one then: what do you know that we don't...?
> (In reply to Eric the Red)
> [...]
>
>
> [...]
>
> You'll be lucky to get any discount at all soon and in reality outdoor gear has been massively discounted for the last 15 years. I
>
> Unfortunately that's all about to change.
> [...]
>
>
> [...]
>
> You'll be lucky to get any discount at all soon and in reality outdoor gear has been massively discounted for the last 15 years. I
>
> Unfortunately that's all about to change.
Come one then: what do you know that we don't...?
In reply to Eric the Red:
Like the Gore-tex example Eric.
Their marketing is genius.
Not sure about your prices though ... across the road from here at the 5 million outdoor shops in Ambleside you can get Gore-tex quite cheap - £100-150, with Goretex Pro Shell topping at £250....unless it is Arc'teryx at £300-400 but that is due to high stich-count, design and the other fabrics used.
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com)
>
> In my opinion outdoor gear, especially clothing is massively overpriced.
>
> Goretex, when it was first around was a new fabric. Both breathable and waterproof. Amazing! It was expensive, like any product of r and d as companies need to cover their costs. It had few competitors.
>
> However, it has not ever gone down in price. How can anyone justify £300 for a jacket made of a material with so called "technology" that is 20 years old. Especially now there are equally good and better competing fabrics. It's the equivalent of Sony still trying to sell a walkman for £200.
>
> Specialist items such as rock climbing gear I expect to be expensive as the market is small. But general outdoor clothing is massively and ridiculously overpriced, even with a %20 discount.
>
> In my opinion outdoor gear, especially clothing is massively overpriced.
>
> Goretex, when it was first around was a new fabric. Both breathable and waterproof. Amazing! It was expensive, like any product of r and d as companies need to cover their costs. It had few competitors.
>
> However, it has not ever gone down in price. How can anyone justify £300 for a jacket made of a material with so called "technology" that is 20 years old. Especially now there are equally good and better competing fabrics. It's the equivalent of Sony still trying to sell a walkman for £200.
>
> Specialist items such as rock climbing gear I expect to be expensive as the market is small. But general outdoor clothing is massively and ridiculously overpriced, even with a %20 discount.
Like the Gore-tex example Eric.
Their marketing is genius.
Not sure about your prices though ... across the road from here at the 5 million outdoor shops in Ambleside you can get Gore-tex quite cheap - £100-150, with Goretex Pro Shell topping at £250....unless it is Arc'teryx at £300-400 but that is due to high stich-count, design and the other fabrics used.
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com:
Shirley even Arc'teryx prices should come down unless the supplying of Countryfile is keeping the demand up.
> (In reply to Eric the Red)
> [...]
>
> Like the Gore-tex example Eric.
>
> Their marketing is genius.
>
> Not sure about your prices though ... across the road from here at the 5 million outdoor shops in Ambleside you can get Gore-tex quite cheap - £100-150, with Goretex Pro Shell topping at £250....unless it is Arc'teryx at £300-400 but that is due to high stich-count, design and the other marketing ploys used.
> [...]
>
> Like the Gore-tex example Eric.
>
> Their marketing is genius.
>
> Not sure about your prices though ... across the road from here at the 5 million outdoor shops in Ambleside you can get Gore-tex quite cheap - £100-150, with Goretex Pro Shell topping at £250....unless it is Arc'teryx at £300-400 but that is due to high stich-count, design and the other marketing ploys used.
Shirley even Arc'teryx prices should come down unless the supplying of Countryfile is keeping the demand up.
In reply to bigbobbyking:
Most of my suppliers have put up their prices by a significant degree. The price increases haven't fully transferred to the customer yet, but they will.
Most of my suppliers have put up their prices by a significant degree. The price increases haven't fully transferred to the customer yet, but they will.
In reply to bigbobbyking:
Across the board price increases, up to 30% starting in the Spring, and further increases later in the year: tents, boots, climbing gear, jackets, rucksacks - yes exchange rate is the main cause I believe as most gear is made/or distributed by companies in mainland Europe, Far East and USA.
Its playing hell with the major chain catalogue production: you may not see prices in some chain catalogues because they have been warned by suppliers that there will be two price increases this year.
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com)
> [...]
>
> Come one then: what do you know that we don't...?
> [...]
>
> Come one then: what do you know that we don't...?
Across the board price increases, up to 30% starting in the Spring, and further increases later in the year: tents, boots, climbing gear, jackets, rucksacks - yes exchange rate is the main cause I believe as most gear is made/or distributed by companies in mainland Europe, Far East and USA.
Its playing hell with the major chain catalogue production: you may not see prices in some chain catalogues because they have been warned by suppliers that there will be two price increases this year.
In reply to grumpybearpantsclimbinggoat:
One theory is that high price items will still sell, as will budget items: mid-range .
Ha - Countryfile, yes I saw that gadger wearing an Arc'teryx, that Robbie Williams singer wears it too.
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com)
> [...]
>
> Shirley even Arc'teryx prices should come down unless the supplying of Countryfile is keeping the demand up.
> [...]
>
> Shirley even Arc'teryx prices should come down unless the supplying of Countryfile is keeping the demand up.
One theory is that high price items will still sell, as will budget items: mid-range .
Ha - Countryfile, yes I saw that gadger wearing an Arc'teryx, that Robbie Williams singer wears it too.
In reply to J1234: If anyone works in an outdoor shop can they explain why quite a lot of the US / Canadian stuff is so expensive here. It's cheaper to order Mountain Hardwear from the USA and pay shipping and VAT and handling than buy here AND you at least get a decent choice.
Even crazier with Arcteryx since you cant buy their stuff from Canada but have to pay the US markup and freight and then a second lot to ship here.
Since we have to pay VAT on importation and shipping by courier is very expensive compared with shops bulk import costs, then it should be cheaper to buy it here in UK?
The numbers dont seem to add up.
Even crazier with Arcteryx since you cant buy their stuff from Canada but have to pay the US markup and freight and then a second lot to ship here.
Since we have to pay VAT on importation and shipping by courier is very expensive compared with shops bulk import costs, then it should be cheaper to buy it here in UK?
The numbers dont seem to add up.
In reply to Eric the Red:
Cost Price of Jacket £50
Trade Price to retailer £100
Price to you £200
Why does a GTX jacket cost £200? b/c it costs the manufactur about £50ish to make it. You really do get what you pay for most of the time with outdoor gear, all the way from £60 - £250 jackets the margins don't really change that much (reagrdless of brand). That said, just because something cost more to make, doesn't neccessarily make it better.
In lots of cases, the mark up is not as big as that. Then out of that £100 comes VAT, rent, staff wages, bills, transport of goods etc, etc.
Add a 20% discount to that (£40 quid here) and you reduce that £100 to £60 before any other costs...If you think you are getting ripped off, you are living in a dreamworld. Most wee outdoor shops sell (especially the more specialist kit) to a relatively small market, who don't buy much stuff, want it cheap and yet would moan bitterly if their local shop goes away. You may notice the owners of most climbing shops are not billionaires, despite selling "ridiculously overpriced" gear, ever wondered why not?
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - UKClimbing.com)
>
> In my opinion outdoor gear, especially clothing is massively overpriced.
>
Bloody hell mate, you need to stay away from the high stret then! The mark ups on outdoor clothing are perhaps not quite as big as you think, certainly nothing like what you'd see on any fashion stuff out of "normal" shops. The highest you'd ever see (as in best for the retailer) would probably be a price pyramid that looks something like.>
> In my opinion outdoor gear, especially clothing is massively overpriced.
>
Cost Price of Jacket £50
Trade Price to retailer £100
Price to you £200
Why does a GTX jacket cost £200? b/c it costs the manufactur about £50ish to make it. You really do get what you pay for most of the time with outdoor gear, all the way from £60 - £250 jackets the margins don't really change that much (reagrdless of brand). That said, just because something cost more to make, doesn't neccessarily make it better.
In lots of cases, the mark up is not as big as that. Then out of that £100 comes VAT, rent, staff wages, bills, transport of goods etc, etc.
Add a 20% discount to that (£40 quid here) and you reduce that £100 to £60 before any other costs...If you think you are getting ripped off, you are living in a dreamworld. Most wee outdoor shops sell (especially the more specialist kit) to a relatively small market, who don't buy much stuff, want it cheap and yet would moan bitterly if their local shop goes away. You may notice the owners of most climbing shops are not billionaires, despite selling "ridiculously overpriced" gear, ever wondered why not?
>
> Specialist items such as rock climbing gear I expect to be expensive as the market is small. But general outdoor clothing is massively and ridiculously overpriced, even with a %20 discount.
> Specialist items such as rock climbing gear I expect to be expensive as the market is small. But general outdoor clothing is massively and ridiculously overpriced, even with a %20 discount.
The point is, the discount was offered by the retailer; the customer was then left in awkward and unpleasant position of having to practically beg for the said discount, and subjected to rude behaviour.
If companies and shops are stuggling, then please simply withdraw the discount rather than regret it later and be awkward about it. And ensure that the concept of 'cutomer relations' is firmly dinned into the staff. Yes we can all have an off day, yes we can all be a demanding customer at times, but please remember that retailing is a service industy in this sense- and the customer should expect polite, efficient, ungrudging service.
I am sure the OP took this into account when although in retail (or has been )himself, he was a customer.
I know I would have simply explained why I was taking my custom elsewhere, and complained at a higher level.
Sxx
Sxx
If companies and shops are stuggling, then please simply withdraw the discount rather than regret it later and be awkward about it. And ensure that the concept of 'cutomer relations' is firmly dinned into the staff. Yes we can all have an off day, yes we can all be a demanding customer at times, but please remember that retailing is a service industy in this sense- and the customer should expect polite, efficient, ungrudging service.
I am sure the OP took this into account when although in retail (or has been )himself, he was a customer.
I know I would have simply explained why I was taking my custom elsewhere, and complained at a higher level.
Sxx
Sxx
In reply to neil the weak:
Sorry. I have always and will continue to support small local retailers, even if it means paying more. Not only because the service and knowledge are better, but because I'd be devastated if they went under.
When I say gear is overpriced, I'm not putting any blame on the retailers. The retail industry is well known for the small margins and the prices are largely decided by the cost price of the items. It's these that are too high.
£300 for a goretex jacket (I don't care how many stitches) is too much.
Sorry. I have always and will continue to support small local retailers, even if it means paying more. Not only because the service and knowledge are better, but because I'd be devastated if they went under.
When I say gear is overpriced, I'm not putting any blame on the retailers. The retail industry is well known for the small margins and the prices are largely decided by the cost price of the items. It's these that are too high.
£300 for a goretex jacket (I don't care how many stitches) is too much.
In reply to Eric the Red:
Good for you. I'd do a mix of internet and local shopping personally (if I didn't work for a shop already...). If there was only a small(ish) cost difference I'd rather pay the extra in exchange for some decent help (assuming the shop you're in provides decent help... if not then feck em) if I needed it. I think a small premium is fair enough for the ability to ask questions, try stuff on etc. That said, if there was a massive price difference by going to the net then fair enough really, most of us aren't loaded..
OK, thats a bit fairer, though I suspect (but don't know for sure) with a lot of the manufacturers they aren't making massive amounts per item either. Gore, in fairness to your point, might well be one exception to this, as might arcteryx (higher than normal mark up).
Agreed - you can get some great hill jackets for about £200 ish - most of the more expensive ones are just fancier, and fancy is usually not good, it's just more things to break..
> (In reply to neil the weak)
>
> Sorry. I have always and will continue to support small local retailers, even if it means paying more. Not only because the service and knowledge are better, but because I'd be devastated if they went under.
>
> Sorry. I have always and will continue to support small local retailers, even if it means paying more. Not only because the service and knowledge are better, but because I'd be devastated if they went under.
Good for you. I'd do a mix of internet and local shopping personally (if I didn't work for a shop already...). If there was only a small(ish) cost difference I'd rather pay the extra in exchange for some decent help (assuming the shop you're in provides decent help... if not then feck em) if I needed it. I think a small premium is fair enough for the ability to ask questions, try stuff on etc. That said, if there was a massive price difference by going to the net then fair enough really, most of us aren't loaded..
>
> When I say gear is overpriced, I'm not putting any blame on the retailers. The retail industry is well known for the small margins and the prices are largely decided by the cost price of the items. It's these that are too high.
> When I say gear is overpriced, I'm not putting any blame on the retailers. The retail industry is well known for the small margins and the prices are largely decided by the cost price of the items. It's these that are too high.
OK, thats a bit fairer, though I suspect (but don't know for sure) with a lot of the manufacturers they aren't making massive amounts per item either. Gore, in fairness to your point, might well be one exception to this, as might arcteryx (higher than normal mark up).
>
> £300 for a goretex jacket (I don't care how many stitches) is too much.
> £300 for a goretex jacket (I don't care how many stitches) is too much.
Agreed - you can get some great hill jackets for about £200 ish - most of the more expensive ones are just fancier, and fancy is usually not good, it's just more things to break..
In reply to J1234: Well having read all of this post and having worked in the clothing industry in the past. The factory workers that produce the garments in this country do so for a pittance. also take into account that most of the work is now done in China because it can be done even cheaper, even after shipping the materials and garments halfway round the world. The workers get the same poor pay whether making a garment retailing at £100 or £1000. The shop workers don't get a huge wage, so who exactly is getting the profit?
The people paying the pittances to the workers maybe? Or maybe no-one and in the case of some outdoor gear the prices are fairer than they look? Things cost a lot to buy, because they cost (relatively) a lot to make...
I think the climbing specific companies (like DMM say) don't make a killing off the recreational market at all, a large chunk of their income comes (I think?)from larger volume sales to industrial clients. It's that money that allows them to supply us and design rec gear, often at a loss.
I think the climbing specific companies (like DMM say) don't make a killing off the recreational market at all, a large chunk of their income comes (I think?)from larger volume sales to industrial clients. It's that money that allows them to supply us and design rec gear, often at a loss.
In reply to neil the weak and C J BAR
But what has what your waffling about got to do with BMC discount. Go and start your own thread.
Cheers Beds
But what has what your waffling about got to do with BMC discount. Go and start your own thread.
Cheers Beds
In reply to J1234: Sorry I do apologise.
In reply to J1234:
I've found people being more strict about what they will apply BMC discount to recently. But I've also found that nearly all of the big chains will give you 10-20% discount anyway if you ask.
I've found people being more strict about what they will apply BMC discount to recently. But I've also found that nearly all of the big chains will give you 10-20% discount anyway if you ask.
In reply to neil the weak:
Really going away from the OP topic, but I spent £80 last time and I would not swap it for a £200 or even £400 jacket. Don't buy the hype, the idea is it keeps water off.
> (In reply to Eric the Red)
> Agreed - you can get some great hill jackets for about £200 ish - most of the more expensive ones are just fancier, and fancy is usually not good, it's just more things to break..
Really going away from the OP topic, but I spent £80 last time and I would not swap it for a £200 or even £400 jacket. Don't buy the hype, the idea is it keeps water off.
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